Spain confiscates 0.03% of all bank deposits. - page 2.

byt411

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Quote from: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on July 15, 2014, 10:34:36 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 15, 2014, 06:51:10 PM

Quote from: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on July 15, 2014, 06:09:10 PM

Wait a minute. I may be confused by the term "bank deposit" as I attribute multiple meanings to it. When they say they're taking 0.03% of all bank deposits, does that mean they're taking 0.03% of all money that has already been deposited in a bank, or does that mean that they're taking 0.03% of all money that is newly deposited in a bank? I've been interpreting it as the former.

They are taking 0.03% that was on deposit on x day

Ok, so that really is awful. I could maybe see putting a "tax" on deposits with the idiotic idea of trying to get people to spend their money rather than put it in the bank, but taking money that's already there is just wrong. Does anyone know what their rationale is for doing this over raising taxes? No one likes higher taxes, but raising taxes of one form or another at least doesn't risk destabilizing the banking system like this does.

We have enough taxes, thank you very much. A huge capital gains tax, and then for gains again (same but they call it something else to get more), and then for the "retirement fund" (which the working ones will never get, since they are used to paid the eldery since the gov lost most of it), a 10% Tax on normal sales, even higher tax on special sales, etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

CoinsCoinsEverywhere

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Quote from: hollowframe on July 15, 2014, 06:51:10 PM

Quote from: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on July 15, 2014, 06:09:10 PM

Wait a minute. I may be confused by the term "bank deposit" as I attribute multiple meanings to it. When they say they're taking 0.03% of all bank deposits, does that mean they're taking 0.03% of all money that has already been deposited in a bank, or does that mean that they're taking 0.03% of all money that is newly deposited in a bank? I've been interpreting it as the former.

They are taking 0.03% that was on deposit on x day

Ok, so that really is awful. I could maybe see putting a "tax" on deposits with the idiotic idea of trying to get people to spend their money rather than put it in the bank, but taking money that's already there is just wrong. Does anyone know what their rationale is for doing this over raising taxes? No one likes higher taxes, but raising taxes of one form or another at least doesn't risk destabilizing the banking system like this does.

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Quote from: joecooin on July 06, 2014, 08:24:12 PM

I just think this may have the same significance as Cyprus.

And it is only the beginning.

Original article in Spanish:

http://www.libremercado.com/2014-07-04/la-banca-no-podra-repercutir-a-los-clientes-el-limite-a-las-comisiones-de-las-tarjetas-1276523068/

Joe

edit: short version in English: http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/spain-issues-retroactive-003-tax-on.html

In Cyprus it was more like 20%.

byt411

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Quote from: dadugan on July 15, 2014, 07:19:43 PM

Quote from: byt411 on July 15, 2014, 07:05:56 PM

Quote from: jjc326 on July 15, 2014, 02:30:45 PM

Quote from: byt411 on July 15, 2014, 01:29:28 PM

Quote from: Benjig on July 15, 2014, 01:23:52 PM

there are other countries that charges up to 3% for bank deposits above 1,500 usd, so i think 0.03% there is no reason to complain, but anyway another reason to use bitcoin.

The spanish goverment has been taxing everything they can for the past few years, and it is a reason to complain.

In terms of "reason to complain," yes, I think taking any percentage no matter how small from bank deposits is a reason to complain as it's completely unfair. There has been a principle that once you have money, it's yours, and you can save up in the bank etc. and grow your wealth, and if you work hard enough you can make something of yourself. On the other hand, I wouldn't see an uproar of .03% of deposits being taken, but it does open the door to major problems in the future. I would certainly protest, as loudly as I could, if the US did something like that to my money - even .03%

There are many tax problems here in Spain. For example, when you inherit something, you are taxed. A lot of family members lose money because they get taxed for more than what they inherit.
Another example: If you don't pay your mortgage, your house/car/whatever gets confiscated, and they sell it, and if you still owe money, you still have to pay it, correct?
Nope.
Here in Spain, the banks "lend" you money. For example, I owe a bank 30,000€. I stop paying my mortgage. They "lend" me 30,000€, so my mortgage is completed, but I never actually see the cash. This new loan is also a mortgage, but they don't call it that; they call it a "personal loan with property as collateral". This new loan has a higher interest rate, and I have to get taxed because those 30,000€ are capital gains.
I don't even have money, and now I have to pay even more debts. I love my country, -.-

I don't think tax code work this way in any part of the world. Should consult your accountant and lawyer.

That is correct. As we say to non-locals here, Welcome To Spain, Spain is different.

dadugan

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Quote from: byt411 on July 15, 2014, 07:05:56 PM

Quote from: jjc326 on July 15, 2014, 02:30:45 PM

Quote from: byt411 on July 15, 2014, 01:29:28 PM

Quote from: Benjig on July 15, 2014, 01:23:52 PM

there are other countries that charges up to 3% for bank deposits above 1,500 usd, so i think 0.03% there is no reason to complain, but anyway another reason to use bitcoin.

The spanish goverment has been taxing everything they can for the past few years, and it is a reason to complain.

In terms of "reason to complain," yes, I think taking any percentage no matter how small from bank deposits is a reason to complain as it's completely unfair. There has been a principle that once you have money, it's yours, and you can save up in the bank etc. and grow your wealth, and if you work hard enough you can make something of yourself. On the other hand, I wouldn't see an uproar of .03% of deposits being taken, but it does open the door to major problems in the future. I would certainly protest, as loudly as I could, if the US did something like that to my money - even .03%

There are many tax problems here in Spain. For example, when you inherit something, you are taxed. A lot of family members lose money because they get taxed for more than what they inherit.
Another example: If you don't pay your mortgage, your house/car/whatever gets confiscated, and they sell it, and if you still owe money, you still have to pay it, correct?
Nope.
Here in Spain, the banks "lend" you money. For example, I owe a bank 30,000€. I stop paying my mortgage. They "lend" me 30,000€, so my mortgage is completed, but I never actually see the cash. This new loan is also a mortgage, but they don't call it that; they call it a "personal loan with property as collateral". This new loan has a higher interest rate, and I have to get taxed because those 30,000€ are capital gains.
I don't even have money, and now I have to pay even more debts. I love my country, -.-

I don't think tax code work this way in any part of the world. Should consult your accountant and lawyer.

byt411

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Quote from: jjc326 on July 15, 2014, 02:30:45 PM

Quote from: byt411 on July 15, 2014, 01:29:28 PM

Quote from: Benjig on July 15, 2014, 01:23:52 PM

there are other countries that charges up to 3% for bank deposits above 1,500 usd, so i think 0.03% there is no reason to complain, but anyway another reason to use bitcoin.

The spanish goverment has been taxing everything they can for the past few years, and it is a reason to complain.

In terms of "reason to complain," yes, I think taking any percentage no matter how small from bank deposits is a reason to complain as it's completely unfair. There has been a principle that once you have money, it's yours, and you can save up in the bank etc. and grow your wealth, and if you work hard enough you can make something of yourself. On the other hand, I wouldn't see an uproar of .03% of deposits being taken, but it does open the door to major problems in the future. I would certainly protest, as loudly as I could, if the US did something like that to my money - even .03%

There are many tax problems here in Spain. For example, when you inherit something, you are taxed. A lot of family members lose money because they get taxed for more than what they inherit.
Another example: If you don't pay your mortgage, your house/car/whatever gets confiscated, and they sell it, and if you still owe money, you still have to pay it, correct?
Nope.
Here in Spain, the banks "lend" you money. For example, I owe a bank 30,000€. I stop paying my mortgage. They "lend" me 30,000€, so my mortgage is completed, but I never actually see the cash. This new loan is also a mortgage, but they don't call it that; they call it a "personal loan with property as collateral". This new loan has a higher interest rate, and I have to get taxed because those 30,000€ are capital gains.
I don't even have money, and now I have to pay even more debts. I love my country, -.-

hollowframe

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Quote from: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on July 15, 2014, 06:09:10 PM

Wait a minute. I may be confused by the term "bank deposit" as I attribute multiple meanings to it. When they say they're taking 0.03% of all bank deposits, does that mean they're taking 0.03% of all money that has already been deposited in a bank, or does that mean that they're taking 0.03% of all money that is newly deposited in a bank? I've been interpreting it as the former.

They are taking 0.03% that was on deposit on x day

CoinsCoinsEverywhere

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Wait a minute. I may be confused by the term "bank deposit" as I attribute multiple meanings to it. When they say they're taking 0.03% of all bank deposits, does that mean they're taking 0.03% of all money that has already been deposited in a bank, or does that mean that they're taking 0.03% of all money that is newly deposited in a bank? I've been interpreting it as the former.

jjc326

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Quote from: byt411 on July 15, 2014, 01:29:28 PM

Quote from: Benjig on July 15, 2014, 01:23:52 PM

there are other countries that charges up to 3% for bank deposits above 1,500 usd, so i think 0.03% there is no reason to complain, but anyway another reason to use bitcoin.

The spanish goverment has been taxing everything they can for the past few years, and it is a reason to complain.

In terms of "reason to complain," yes, I think taking any percentage no matter how small from bank deposits is a reason to complain as it's completely unfair. There has been a principle that once you have money, it's yours, and you can save up in the bank etc. and grow your wealth, and if you work hard enough you can make something of yourself. On the other hand, I wouldn't see an uproar of .03% of deposits being taken, but it does open the door to major problems in the future. I would certainly protest, as loudly as I could, if the US did something like that to my money - even .03%

byt411

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Quote from: Benjig on July 15, 2014, 01:23:52 PM

there are other countries that charges up to 3% for bank deposits above 1,500 usd, so i think 0.03% there is no reason to complain, but anyway another reason to use bitcoin.

The spanish goverment has been taxing everything they can for the past few years, and it is a reason to complain.

Benjig

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there are other countries that charges up to 3% for bank deposits above 1,500 usd, so i think 0.03% there is no reason to complain, but anyway another reason to use bitcoin.

CoinsCoinsEverywhere

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Quote from: medUSA on July 15, 2014, 07:14:19 AM

Quote from: InwardContour on July 13, 2014, 09:40:08 PM

But the amount taken was very small, less the what Spaniards likely earned in interest in their bank accounts in one year so the net effect was essentially zero.

This is my initial reaction too. 0.03% is honestly too small a percentage to have any significant effect. Others have argued that government can take a higher percentage next time. They sure can, but there is a limit of times they can tax deposits before a national uproar.

True. And I would guess that if they try it again with a larger percentage, there may be an international uproar. They're idiots playing with fire. If everyone starts to think that their country is going to go after their bank deposits, bank runs will start.

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Quote from: InwardContour on July 13, 2014, 09:40:08 PM

But the amount taken was very small, less the what Spaniards likely earned in interest in their bank accounts in one year so the net effect was essentially zero.

This is my initial reaction too. 0.03% is honestly too small a percentage to have any significant effect. Others have argued that government can take a higher percentage next time. They sure can, but there is a limit of times they can tax deposits before a national uproar.

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Quote from: Harley997 on July 11, 2014, 08:09:16 PM

Quote from: counter on July 10, 2014, 06:37:33 PM

A step in the wrong direction and is bullish for bitcoin. These types of fees have a way of going up incrementally over time. Thanks alot for bringing this to our attention I plan to follow this story as things progress.

I don't think that they took a large enough percentage of bank deposits for this to be bullish for bitcoin. I am sure that people will not like this however It would amount to losing around a years worth of interest and would likely not get a lot of people to stop using the banking system.

Agreed, I didn't necessarily mean in the immediate future of Bitcoin would benefit. Surely didn't think that anybody was going to close their bank accounts over this news I should have been more clear. I was thinking more potentially long term if things got worse this type of story could be helpful to attract new people.

CoinsCoinsEverywhere

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Quote from: micaman on July 14, 2014, 09:34:20 PM

Quote from: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on July 14, 2014, 09:21:39 PM

Quote from: micaman on July 14, 2014, 08:53:32 PM

It's just like theft, but they call it politics.
Now try to picture it with bitcoin... nah

They may not be able to just skim a little off the top with bitcoin, but they could kill it. If a large government or other organization wants to destroy bitcoin, there are a number of things they could do that would at least damage it.

As for Spain's "confiscation," it sounds like an experiment to me--see what kind of reaction it draws from its citizens and the financial markets to gauge the feasibility of doing it again, probably with a higher percentage. I mean really--how much good would 0.03% do for their economy anyway? It's just a drop in the bucket. That's not going to help anything.

They would definitely kill it. Or at least lose a lot of its value. But i guess there would be so many different coins that they can't "regulate" them all.

Maybe things will be different in the future, but at least right now, I think all cryptos hinge on the success of bitcoin. If bitcoin falls, they all go down. And I'm not just talking about regulation. Regulating bitcoin into oblivion would be the "nice" way of killing it. There are other much more nasty ways.

hollowframe

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Quote from: freedomno1 on July 14, 2014, 08:39:33 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on July 14, 2014, 08:22:37 PM

Despite the small %, shouldn't this cause a panic of people taking all their money out of Spain's banks?

Perhaps if the citizens think this is just a test and will become something larger later on.
Kind of hard to say for certain what will happen though

I wouldn't think so. I would say that most people would not even notice as there are just so many people that don't even check their credit card statement or bank statement and just assume there is money there, and call to check their balance every so often.

micaman

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Quote from: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on July 14, 2014, 09:21:39 PM

Quote from: micaman on July 14, 2014, 08:53:32 PM

It's just like theft, but they call it politics.
Now try to picture it with bitcoin... nah

They may not be able to just skim a little off the top with bitcoin, but they could kill it. If a large government or other organization wants to destroy bitcoin, there are a number of things they could do that would at least damage it.

As for Spain's "confiscation," it sounds like an experiment to me--see what kind of reaction it draws from its citizens and the financial markets to gauge the feasibility of doing it again, probably with a higher percentage. I mean really--how much good would 0.03% do for their economy anyway? It's just a drop in the bucket. That's not going to help anything.

They would definitely kill it. Or at least lose a lot of its value. But i guess there would be so many different coins that they can't "regulate" them all.

CoinsCoinsEverywhere

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Quote from: micaman on July 14, 2014, 08:53:32 PM

It's just like theft, but they call it politics.
Now try to picture it with bitcoin... nah

They may not be able to just skim a little off the top with bitcoin, but they could kill it. If a large government or other organization wants to destroy bitcoin, there are a number of things they could do that would at least damage it.

As for Spain's "confiscation," it sounds like an experiment to me--see what kind of reaction it draws from its citizens and the financial markets to gauge the feasibility of doing it again, probably with a higher percentage. I mean really--how much good would 0.03% do for their economy anyway? It's just a drop in the bucket. That's not going to help anything.

micaman

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It's just like theft, but they call it politics.
Now try to picture it with bitcoin... nah

freedomno1

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on July 14, 2014, 08:22:37 PM

Despite the small %, shouldn't this cause a panic of people taking all their money out of Spain's banks?

Perhaps if the citizens think this is just a test and will become something larger later on.
Kind of hard to say for certain what will happen though

Topic: Spain confiscates 0.03% of all bank deposits. - page 2. (Read 5483 times)