Topic: Stake.com does not pay out $40k+ money. Scam - page 2. (Read 1902 times)

Okay, it's been over 2 months since the last post in this post. Scam Site Stake did not return anything, what happened in these 2 months: In 1, I received the only response from the regulatory body from Curacao with the following content:

Dear Sir,
Following your below e-mail, Stake hereby presents its formal response.
We have performed an assessment on the account “Palamar12345”, and we have verified that the user is depositing from different crypto addresses and is only withdrawing to one (1) specific address that is not the one he deposits from.
It happens that the crypto address the player is using to withdraw is the same address used by other 11 accounts that do exactly the same, deposit from different addresses and withdraw everything to the same address.
Best regards,
Antillephone N.V.
License & Complaints 8048/JAZ

To which I replied the following:

Hello, thank you for noticing my problem, I want to report the following:
When depositing and withdrawing funds, I used the services of a private exchanger, since I do not have my own crypto wallet address. There are no instructions in the Stake.com rules from which address funds should be deposited into your gaming account. Whether other players used the services of this exchanger is not known to me, and it should not be known, this is their business and this has nothing to do with my account and my problem. I also bring to your attention that this site took deposits from me for 100 thousand dollars in equal parts over several days, and also calmly withdrew them (there were about 80 thousand withdrawals) Why didn't they warn me earlier that I was making deposits from an address that was not allowed to make deposits? As soon as my account went positive, the withdrawal was immediately blocked and they stopped letting me play games on the site. They begin to accuse me of having a multi-account, and not fair in their opinion the game. According to their rep at bitcointalk.org, I used to bet early matches at Roland Garros games. I see no reason why I should not be allowed to do this on a gambling site that accepts sports betting. I also do not understand the legality of holding my funds. The withdrawal clause of their rules reads as follows: Account Holders who wish to recover funds held in a closed, locked or excluded account, are advised to contact Customer Support.
All transactions shall be checked in order to prevent money laundering. If a player becomes aware of any suspicious activity relating to any of the Games of the Website, s/he must report this to Stake immediately. Stake may suspend, block or close a Stake Account and withhold funds if requested to do so in accordance with the Prevention of Money Laundering Act or on any other legal basis requested by any state authority.

According to this clause, they do not have the right to refuse to withdraw my funds to me (even taking into account the fact that I did not return my deposit). No court found my actions unlawful and did not issue an act of withholding funds. If they say that the reason for withholding my funds is that deposits and withdrawals came from the same address, this is not a legitimate reason for not paying the client his money. Why did they ask for my documents and confirm the 2nd level of my verification, thereby giving the green light to play in their casino? I described my problem in detail in a post on the forum link to it https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/stakecom-does-not-pay-out-40k-money-scam-5400984

I hope that you will take into account all the factors of this case and will be neutral. Sincerely.

These two letters were received and sent on June 8th. Since then, I haven't received any more replies. All this time I wrote to them in support in the chat on their website and I always received and still receive the same answer: write to us by mail, we will answer you soon. But there is no more answer by mail, a complete ignore. Also, I can't get their official denial in the mail, they just don't want to write it. They simply chose the tactic of ignoring.

Let's see what this site did in the end: The question is not whether I was engaged in multi-accounting. (for which, according to Stunna, they do not ban players, much less take money). Or I made deposits from those wallets from which deposits were already made to other accounts (there are no instructions in the Stake rules from which wallets the player is required to make deposits, I can use any) And it’s not even about my banned amount in money. I just want answers to specific questions, namely:

1. Their response to the Licensing Company (which also does not want to understand anything) states that I replenished 11 accounts from 1 wallet. Why didn't you reveal this fact, for example, on 2 or 3 accounts and banned them earlier?

2. Why, when my account was making deposits and was in the red for 80 thousand dollars, you allowed to make deposits? After all, I replenished from the same wallet.

3. Why did you arrange a document check for me if you still didn’t want to pay?

4. Please familiarize yourself with the rule of yours, in which exactly 2 cases do you have the right to withhold the client's money? They are posted on your website.

5. You don't pay money to all the people who want to value bet on your site?

For previous commenters: Value betting is not betting ahead of time. These are regular bets that are placed on the top events with a mathematical advantage in front of the bookmaker. Bets are placed before the match, and not in live mode. The bookmaker gives a line - you bet. No cheating. And the line at this site leaves much to be desired.

P.S. for people who want to beat these scammers, US Open starts on the 29th, write in private.

What you guys saying is none sense. First the player Said prematches. She bet on
Secondly to place a bet it's not instant atleast 12sec there no delay such as 12sec.
You guys lost logic just want to spread the signature by any talk.

---

If someone follows up this case is at Casino Guru
And Stake failed to show any evidence.
So Casino Guru put it as unresolved and waiting for regulatory decision.
https://casino.guru/stake-casino-player-has-been-accused-of-opening-multiple-1

Maybe will help the OP to open another complain at askgamblers
Since now I'm convinced Stake has no evidence .

I live right to a stadium and I rarely notice any second of delay. Most of the time is less than 1 second. But it makes sense what you are saying tho..

The delay is bigger than what you think. You can check that yourself if you know someone who lives next to a stadium and if a game is televised live. If you sit in the apartment and you hear the cheers from the fans after their team scores, pay attention to how long it takes for the goal to be seen on TV. Analog transmission is the fastest. Cable and satellite depends on the TV station. And then you have to consider SD and HD channels. SD are faster most of the time, but not always.

Even if the game is televised on multiple channels, each one of them have different delays. You usually wouldn't notice it unless you have access to multiple sports packages and transmission sources such as cable and satellite. Not to mention IPTV that can be 40-50 seconds behind and even more if you are getting it from the worst kind of service providers.

Technically, that's not really true. All live events will have a significant delay in the broadcast. And I'm not talking about the intentional delay of the broadcast by the media houses. These are simple facts resulting from the implementation of digital technology. In order to transmit, a digital signal must first be compressed (MPEG-2 compression is the most common) which adds about 600 milliseconds of latency every time a signal is encoded, and another 600 milliseconds when decoding, depending on the technology used. Adding to that, it takes several milliseconds for the signal to travel to the satellite and back again (despite the fact that it travels at the speed of light, it's still 36,000 km to get there and another 36,000 to get back to Earth). This is roughly 1.5 seconds theoretically but can be closer to 3-4 seconds due to additional signal processing, multiple satellite relays, or even more if using different compression techniques (MPEG-4 is more efficient but is also somewhat more time consuming).

You don't get it. He's accusing you of having access to a faster feed than Stake odds updates on the french open. That is to say a video, a data stream or anything giving you informations before odds changes.
And he claimed you have been able to cash out bets just before the cash out amount offered fell or being settled as lost thanks to this "fast feed".

So I'm asking here, how we can do that on Stake while when I want to cash out a bet in live or send a live bet, I always get a long freeze of many seconds before my cash out or my bet is accepted. And if odds change or the bet is settled during this freeze, my cash out/bet is rejected.
I thought this freeze was a security from Stake especially to avoid people doing what he accuses you to have done.

I'm also asking what could be a "fast feed" when a competition is live broadcast on many TV channels around the world with less than one second delay.

Another bullshit denial.  He didn't say you were betting live.  You figured out a way to get enough of a jump on stakes feed to profitably cash out tennis bets.  Then when you got limited you made more accounts to bet more money.  Then when those got limited, you made even more accounts, and then you made more...etc...and eventually stake said that's enough.

I think you misunderstood my points. At Rolland Garros, they were all on the line and not in live. And they were only 15-20% of all my bets. Stunna talks about how I bet on matches where the stake was wrong in the odds, telling everyone that they have a very weak line

May someone explain to me how to do that on Stake?
Because every time I want to place a live bet or cashing out during a match, I need to wait a loooong delay for being accepted. And if odds change during that delay my live bet or cash out with the initial odds is rejected.
It's only accepted if I accept new odds.
I thought it was a security from Stake to prevent this kind of exploit, I was mistaken actually?  

I also thought french open was broadcast by several TV channels around the world. What is the delay of a TV broadcast? 0.1s, 0.5s, 1s?
What would be the delay of a faster feed?
Are there real humans able to exploit such gap to place or cash out bets?
With 15 accounts at the same time?
This is not an ukrainian girl, this is wonder woman

For a moment I was convinced that Stake has become the new 1xbet.
Apparently not.

Still not happy with how Stake advertises itself on Twitch. It's not my business or my job, but I hope you will stop doing it. An adolescent with a gambling problem is a destroyed life.

This is probably my last message here, hoping it will bring some positive change.

Pax et Bonum  

Stunna there is not a single answer to my questions and questions of other users. Here there are only my correspondence in chats when I asked people what are the maximum receptions people have for a certain sport. Is it forbidden on your site to bet on Tennis anytime I want? If so, then write it down in your rules. I am a client - you are a bookmaker. You give the line I bet. Kick me out of the game, but give me my money. Why didn't you mention my slot game? I played them too. And at the expense of a large number of accounts, so many people know about your bookmaker and what line you give, there are a lot of mailings in the public domain for these bets. And why do you associate everyone with me?

They are not banned by any authorities. The bookmaker's office is built on the competition of the player and the office itself, so why do you forbid such players to play? Spanish players sued bet365 for such cases and won the case. And about accepting deposits for $ 100k from me, you did not answer.

ps. And where in mine did I try to buy messages in accounts?

Fair enough, no hard feelings. I should have made a better and more professional explanation initially. Sharing evidence is often tricky in situations like this because this individual will continue to find ways to get around our systems the more info they have. I like to think that we have built up a strong reputation over the last 10 years here, being the longest running and largest operators in crypto gambling but that does not allow us to say "just trust us"

I was alleged of the same thing by Twitchyseal on this thread, I have already disclosed all of my communication with OP(here and outside).
Until now there was no strong evidence from your side.
As I have already mentioned on the other thread. "I will renounce my support the moment you provide any evidence."
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60310671

I can see that you have provided proof, so I will rescind it.
My job is done here.

When you sign up for Stake you agree to a series of terms and conditions, these conditions are broad but are put in place to prevent abuse. Every betting account is given their own limits, when your limits were reduced you started making additional accounts and providing false documents not belonging to you in an attempt to defraud us. You even went on Stake chat and made offers to buy accounts that had limits over $10k on specific sports. None of this was recreational action, you amassed at minimum 15 accounts and used these to profit significantly off your "value bets" which you also offered to sell to other chatters.

Primarily having access to a faster feed on the french open and cashing out at points of value right before an odd swing was a great strategy for you . When placing that same bet across 15+ accounts you were able to make these "value bets" very profitable as it was a positive expected value initiative for you, you even offered to sell these bets given how confident you were in them. We have a right to refuse action from players like you which we did, you were able to get your money out on your initial accounts. Then you continued to buy and make accounts and we continued to limit but you kept buying or farming more accounts. On just Palamar (OP's account) you earned profit of $53k using "value bets".  If we did not take such strong action you would be continuing to buy accounts with high limits to try and keep betting against us.


Stake chat Logs from Palamar translated from Russian

3:32 PM 5/22/2022   ru   
Ecть y кoгo aкки гдe пpиeм нa тeнниc 10к$?
Translation: Does anyone have an account where the admission to tennis is $ 10k?

1:04 AM 5/22/2022   ru   
oт 10к$
Translation: from 10k$

1:02 AM 5/22/2022   ru   
Ктo кpyпнo cтaвит ecть?
Translation: Who bets big?

12:59 AM 5/22/2022   sports_en   
WHo need valuebets&




This user actually reported this matter to our regulators who will review the case, given the mountain of evidence against them I have no doubt we will win. Obviously edgycorner being in touch with this group there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they are offering you some money to be their puppet here.  

It's not shady to limit players, and even though Pinnacle has a "winners welcome policy", they do, in fact, change limits on a player to player basis - especially for minor events.  As far as lines and limits though, Pinnacle is definitely the best.


The authorities of those countries don't run any sports leagues so I don't really get where you're going with that.  


They do have a UK license, which is one of the the more reputable in the world.  It's only for stake.co.uk , but if they were to start blatantly scamming players they would no doubt lose that license.  And when you say "then this happens", you're you mean then you make 15+ accounts to circumvent limits.  So yeah.  Same thing would happen on a regulated book. 

Ok I'm going to quit contributing to derailing this thread.

Yup, they are accountable to no one.
This is why people prefer Vegas and regulated books. But not all countries got a Vegas or a legal book, so they are forced to bet on offshore books. Then this happens and you can do NOTHING (even if your account was verified by the book itself before you started betting lol, funny and scary at the same time)

AFAIK the sportsbooks with the highest RTP, Pinnacle for example, don't treat their customers like that, by selectively discriminating/trapping them, and always stay professional. I don't know how their business work but it's not by doing shady things like that.
Stake takes advantage from being a crypto offshore casino, and not being as famous as largest sportsbooks but if it makes bad things with its customers I don't think australian authorities will appreciate that, neither american, canadian and english ones since it is doing business with sport organizations and personalities from those countries for advertising.

OP mentioned this fact in their post. I don't know why other members fail to see the seriousness of this accusation.

If you're running a sportsbook there are two paths you can go down:

Offer lines that aren't competitive with other books, and only on main stream sports/leagues, but never worry protecting your edge against sharps/insiders.  That means you take any bet from anyone and everyone has more or less the same limits. 

or

Compete to offer the best lines, either ban or limit those who you suspect might have an edge, and increase limits for players you're confident are recreational players.


If you offer competitive lines and don't limit sharp bettors, you're going to go bankrupt.  In the end, for a bet to be valid, both sides have to agree on the terms.  When a player is limited, and then bets more than that limit using another account, that's a bet that the book did not agree to, and the player knows that when they try to make it.  It's as simple as that.




Yeah.  And it was really messed up.  They can make it whatever they want, but doing it without any sort of warning or even notification when it happens was really disappointing to see.  I immediately complained about it when it happened. 

It's one thing to refuse to pay out winnings in the name of the infamous so called "breach of our TOS", it's another to seize customer own funds without a court decision (in common words, it's called a theft). Here CMIIW not only $20 000 of winnings have been arbitrary seized by the casino but 20 000 others from her deposited funds have also been seized.
However in front of a court, I highly doubt the casino would manage to convince any judge that the customer has been able to steal $20 000 from them by using multiple accounts although it's assumed it really used several accounts to gamble.

PalamarNadia replied only her sister has been registered and she referred her. Why she would refer her if she wanted to use her identity to abuse the casino with multi identities? Moreover I think it's not very difficult to check if her entire family is really registered with their ID or not.


I read they have quietly cut off half of their rakeback while saying they have increased the bonuses given to their customers, is it true?

If you're right, the case is serious because it would become an undeniable scam from the casino.