Topic: Starfish BCB - Loans and Deposits - page 13. (Read 60537 times)

Thank god I stopped lending for a while when I did, I was about to give him one :X

I honestly don't know how Patrick keeps a cool head with all this spamming/trolling going on.

Loans recently repaid from Ravi and JasinLee and payments from Sadpandatech, AndyRossy and Quickbitcoins amongst others.

Mixmastermine has decided to run/default, but it appears others have lost many more coins to him than I have (only 160) so despite him being a good customer earlier in the year, he's not now.  Highlights the importance time-stamping credit ratings because things change (so the paste of the WPW thread material needs to note the time at which the ratings were done.)

Next set of payments scheduled to go out tomorrow as planed/advised.

So he "just lied" (for his own financial benefit) and lost your coins. If thats not a scam, I dont know what is.

Definition of scam
noun
informal
a dishonest scheme; a fraud:

But if you want to continue discussing that, we better do it another thread, as for Starfish it doesnt really matter if its a scam or an accident, all that matter is that his debt (if any) will most likely never be repaid in full.

I don't want to put words in patricks mouth but hes not around to defend his methods.

He does credit checks the same way he decides if an investment is sound, by doing a full verification of all assets and financials, he doesn't release them because they are private (obviously), however even with a sound business model and flow diagrams you can get a string of bad investments (hashking comes to mind, or kluge) and go from far in the green to insolvent in a matter of hours.


TL;DR for everyone reading: hashking didn't scam anyone out of their money, he just lied (intentionally or not) about his fund being guarenteed and his insured pirate fund, and now everyone is angry over the words he used, EVEN THOUGH obviously you shouldn't assume his words to be correct, because this is an anonymous internet forum.

And even shorter,

Indeed there is. Look up the meaning of the word insolvent. If liquidating your gear doesnt allow you to settle your debt, then you are insolvent.

I never said that. I said those people where in default and/or scammers. The difference to creditors isnt that big though.


AFAIK Hashking put the  guaranteed deposits in to a pirate account all by himself and has admitted to that.


Cant disagree with that, its probably just a matter of time before he ends up on that list too.


What is a credit rating? Its an assessment of someone ability to repay his debt. Its not an assessment of how much you like a guy or how well he served you. Its not even about their past track record.

To be fair, its very difficult to assess credit risks in bitcoin land with anonymous people and virtually anonymous coins. Thats why one shouldnt go lightly about giving highest possible credit ratings to people you dont know anything about, doing a business they wont tell you anything about, and that more often than not a 10 year old could identify as almost certain scams.

The worst part about it is that the scammers will abuse you and feed you false information that you can not verify or that they wont let you verify. If you can not do the most basic verification of things like identify, RL financial situation, business model, assets of the business etc, then dont bother giving ratings or give them all F's, otherwise all you do it attract and promote scams and you give a negative incentive to honest people or businesses to disclose such information. Why settle for C when you get AAA by just lying or not disclosing?

No, I'm Illiquid.  There's a difference.  When you decide to stop hiding behind your sock, I'll reply.  Otherwise you get the ignore because aren't contributing anything that adds value and are wasting my time.

So you are insolvent. Thanks for confirming.

sure they are in default, my father defaulted on a real life line of credit and declared bankraupcy, does that make him a scammer?


Hashking put his trust in usagi for insurance, and usagi is a complete toolbox. Hashking is negligent, not a scammer, if we want to play the scammer=negligence, then everyone at intersango deserves a scammer tag as well.

and credit ratings are as valuable as the person giving them out, they have no legal basis and I could give patrick a rating of AAA for his stellar service I've had with him, however he has no legal credentials or responsibilty to the public as would be the case of a professional acting in a professional capacity. Its one guy on the forums giving credit ratings to people based off his intuition, theres nothing wrong with that, but I would hope you aren't stupid enough to take them are complete truths.

I sent out nearly 3k of coins in the last month.  If all I was doing was sitting on coins, paying people from imaginary profits, that would be a ponzi. That's not what I did, I'm mining.


The BTC to USD appreciation has made the BTC valuation of the gear exceptionally low compared to what it was bought for.  So I liquidate the gear, then what?  Magically come up with the rest of the coins? There's a reason "Extended" is in the title.  Mining, while it does have its gushes around the time that there's a generation change in gear, is a long term affair.   Once ASIC arrives, dividends can continue, there are coins to continue expansion to keep the dividend stream continuing and there are coins for buyouts.  


If I owe Patrick money, him not paying back the people he owes doesn't determine my status as a scammer.  If his not paying people makes me a scammer, then I can just shift all the blame to the people that have under performed in doing business with EIEIO.  

Right. You are so solvent that you cant pay your debtors. Or if you prefer, so honest that you refuse to pay them even though you can.
Instead you unilaterally decided to keep their coins and the investments that were made with them, so you can profit first if they pan out months from here, and screw  everyone for good if they dont.

Either way, if you owe money to patrick it seems rather likely patrick wont be seeing it back soon, if ever, so you firmly belong on that list.

I'm not insolvent nor a scammer.  EIEIO is a mining farm, it can't just magically spit out hundreds of coins in a matter of days.  EIEIO was never that large.

Hey,

I've got a bit of loose change and I'm thinking of getting into the money lending racket myself is it OK to ask a bit of advice of you? firstly I would like to say I think Micon's bang out of order for trolling your thread the way he has when you're obviously just trying to give greedy stupid naive members of the community a chance to make some easy money! I'm fascinated by how your business model works and would like to ask a few questions.

After reading through the thread you seem to normally have in excess of 20k bitcoins from depositors which you use to fund your lending business.

-If I was going to do something similar would I be better off;

a) remortgaging to raise capital (currently 3.99% apr), so for 20k working capital: 20k * 3.99% = 798 (annual cost of borrowing)

I think the benefit of doing it like this would be that administration would be really simple, I know the banks not going to demand money back at any time as long as I meet my monthly payments.

b) borrow lots of little deposits from hundreds of people and give them 1% compounded interest per week, so for 20k working capital: 20k+1%^52.1775 = 33613

Not really sure the benefit of doing it this way because the administration must be nightmare, people can demand money back at any time giving liquidity problems and it's 42 times more expensive.

2) You must have to match what you've taken in deposits very closely with what you lend to make any profit as your borrowed capital is constantly compounding interest. How does this work when;

a) You lend to people at 281% APR (but for short term loans), in England where I'm from the only people that borrow at that rate are extremely high risk borrowers looking for payday loans from companies like Quickquid or Wonga hence the need for high interest. Added to the risk is the fact that as bitcoins deflationary these people who are desperate for money to pay such high loan fees then lose money when they have to convert back to bitcoin.
-What's your default rate like
-what's it like administrating these massive amounts of loans and deposits with just you and your wife, or have you got a team?

b) You've mentioned many times throughout the thread most of these borrowers you source from outside of bitcoins no1 forum which is obviously backed up by 22 pages of this thread in which you've taken vast deposits but no loans that amount to anything.

-Where do you find all these people?
-How do you vouch for their credit worthiness?
-How can you possibly administrate all this on such low margins?
-how do you reclaim money from those that default which must be a massive percentage?
-Do you explain the risks to your borrowers of paying insanely high interest rates on a deflationary currency and how did you cope with the last couple of large price spikes?

I've noticed you've had a few people trolling your thread notably Micon (what a jerk, I know he's only trying to save peoples life savings from unscrupulous scammers but still!), is that a problem for you given the liquidity issues your method of financing give you or is it just the case that logical concerns about financial issues tend to go over these sorts of peoples heads anyway?

Micon; if you have no money invested, don't worry about it. I certainly wouldn't be. I got better things in life to worry about.

I think some people have got too much spare time on their hands.

Because he lied about his deposit guarantee. He claimed it wasnt exposed to pirate debt while it was in fact invested in a BCST account.
Offering  "only" 2% per week instead of 7% in return for being  "pirate-safe"  while in reality investing that money in to pirate at 7% is a scam.


Are you saying he isnt in default?
BTW, he is speaking of 3+ years and is paying from his mining revenue. How much do you think he will make from his mining farm  in just 1 year?


He does.


Are you saying he isnt in default?


Look m up. Mind you, those where just his top rated debtors. Makes you wonder about the others, no?


it is a vouch. Those rating have meaning. As he linked himself:
AAA             Extremely strong capacity to meet financial commitments. Highest Rating.
AA              Very strong capacity to meet financial commitments.
A               Strong capacity to meet financial commitments, but somewhat susceptible to adverse economic conditions and changes in circumstances.

Ziggy also prominently featured his AAA rating in his thread title, giving more false credibility to his scam.
If those ratings are meaningless to assess risks, then dont publish them.

well this the definition of FUD.  totally inaccurate.

1)  Pirate has the scammer tag.  Here look:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/pirateat40-35827

2)  Hashking "trying to pay back people best he can" is horrible logic IMO.  This guy is just like the others:  borrow at high rates, use future borrowing to pay past interest.  it's not a sustainable system.  It's a scam.

3)  I willing to escrow a large bet on Kluge not paying everyone back in full in a timely matter.

scaring people to get a kick out of it?  hardly.  we're trying to help bitcoin from being associated with these scams.  We don't profit from this, save if anyone bets us that they are scams and actually pays.

I'm still not sure why hashking is considered a scammer, hes paying people back as best he can, pirate doesn't even have a scammer tag right now, and kluge is also looking to find a way to pay everyone back, I don't know about the others but he gave them a credit report, that isn't a vouch in the slightest, hes stated this a few times.

TL;DR: you're trying to scare people because you get a kick out of it.

The facts should be enough to scare you. How many of debtors Patrick in the past vouched for and/or lent to and/or invested in have recently been outed as scammers, insolvent or both?

hasking
Nckrazze
Ineedausername
imsaguy
kluge (?)
pirate

Soon to be followed by:
ziggystar (already in default, website went poof)
RustyRyan
Obsi

Even if patrick is not a scammer himself, it seems highly unlikely starfish would be solvent if almost all of his A/AA/AAA rated customers and deposit takers are in default.