Steemit how can this thing be workable long term? - page 42.

albert11

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 01:39:58 PM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 11:57:10 AM

The concept is great but the economics behind it are flawed. People will be in for a disapointment when they realize that the more users use steemit the less reward they are likely to get.

You don't even understand the economics judging from your posts and comments, lol. It is simple math and logic, yet you can't seem to comprehend it.

How about you just answer my questions instead of ignoring them and trying to derail thread

Explain how holding powered steem would protect you from hyperinflation ?

jwinterm

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 01:30:59 PM

Quote from: jwinterm on July 13, 2016, 01:18:06 PM

Yea, since Larimer and company instamined 60, 70, 80+%, I'm sure everyone will want to do their part to make Larimer rich and soak up a few pennies in the process, which they'll be able to withdraw over the course of two years or so. If it didn't work with Bitcoin and voat, why would it work with some instamined scam token?

Quote

We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining. Our plan is to keep 20%, sell 20% to raise money, and give away 40% to attract users / referrers.

40% of it will be given to users. Notice it doesn't cost anything to register an account and you get (I think) $20 worth of tokens for doing so.

20% was necessary to fund development. Programs don't code themselves. Time is money. If the developers were not going to get paid, then it makes sense for them to do something else... like get a job.

Only keeping 20% of your company from the get go is a pretty low amount of equity to keep for a start up. Especially considering it is probably split in between at least a few people.

Except there's nothing from preventing them from posting early on and soaking up the huge first distribution under the guise of "paying content providers". It's marketed as being decentralized - it's not, and there's no way to tell how many coins or vests or dollars out whatever other convoluted tokens are being held by the company that backs it. If you want to run a company, why do you need to pretend that there was a "fair mining launch with no instamine" and that is distributed? My two guesses would be duping suckers and tax avoidance/fraud.

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 11:57:10 AM

The concept is great but the economics behind it are flawed. People will be in for a disapointment when they realize that the more users use steemit the less reward they are likely to get.

You don't even understand the economics judging from your posts and comments, lol. It is simple math and logic, yet you can't seem to comprehend it.

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: jwinterm on July 13, 2016, 01:18:06 PM

Yea, since Larimer and company instamined 60, 70, 80+%, I'm sure everyone will want to do their part to make Larimer rich and soak up a few pennies in the process, which they'll be able to withdraw over the course of two years or so. If it didn't work with Bitcoin and voat, why would it work with some instamined scam token?

Quote

We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining. Our plan is to keep 20%, sell 20% to raise money, and give away 40% to attract users / referrers.

40% of it will be given to users. Notice it doesn't cost anything to register an account and you get (I think) $20 worth of tokens for doing so.

20% was necessary to fund development. Programs don't code themselves. Time is money. If the developers were not going to get paid, then it makes sense for them to do something else... like get a job.

Only keeping 20% of your company from the get go is a pretty low amount of equity to keep for a start up. Especially considering it is probably split in between at least a few people.

jwinterm

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Yea, since Larimer and company instamined 60, 70, 80+%, I'm sure everyone will want to do their part to make Larimer rich and soak up a few pennies in the process, which they'll be able to withdraw over the course of two years or so. If it didn't work with Bitcoin and voat, why would it work with some instamined scam token?

Zer0Sum

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Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 11:57:10 AM

Quote from: Zer0Sum on July 13, 2016, 11:11:50 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 01:20:42 AM

Even my mom has registered for Steemit and is blogging, but I can not for the life of me get her to use Bitcoin or Litecoin (although she does hodl).

This is why it's brilliant.

It's the first crypto underpinned by a USER FRIENDLY business model...
I mean, the idiots behind Monero can't even code a GUI wallet in 2 years...
Ethereum has zero usable apps... and average people have no clue WTF is going on.

But every millennial can do basic web posting...
The masses totally get STEEMIT (4,000 users last 24 hours, double from 3-4 days ago).

The concept is great but the economics behind it are flawed. People will be in for a disapointment when they realize that the more users use steemit the less reward they are likely to get.

This is probably Dan Larimer's 10th crypto project or whatever...
He walked away from Bitshares to do STEEMIT...
I'm sure Dan spent weeks simulating the economics of scaling to Reddit levels...
And the biggest problem was getting critical mass, the first 1000 users.

Actually, the reward levels for Top Posts in the future may be very high...
Today top posts are getting 100-200 votes... imagine when they are getting 100 or 1000 times that.

Right now you have "crypto" celebrities (exchange owners, coin devs) getting huge votes...
Imagine when bona fide celebrities or sports figures start steeming about themselves.

It's all about going viral... this is the 1st crypto that has a chance to go viral.

albert11

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Quote from: Zer0Sum on July 13, 2016, 11:11:50 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 01:20:42 AM

Even my mom has registered for Steemit and is blogging, but I can not for the life of me get her to use Bitcoin or Litecoin (although she does hodl).

This is why it's brilliant.

It's the first crypto underpinned by a USER FRIENDLY business model...
I mean, the idiots behind Monero can't even code a GUI wallet in 2 years...
Ethereum has zero usable apps... and average people have no clue WTF is going on.

But every millennial can do basic web posting...
The masses totally get STEEMIT (4,000 users last 24 hours, double from 3-4 days ago).

The concept is great but the economics behind it are flawed. People will be in for a disapointment when they realize that the more users use steemit the less reward they are likely to get.

albert11

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Activity: 679

Merit: 500

Quote from: smooth on July 13, 2016, 04:49:50 AM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 03:16:20 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 02:53:18 AM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 02:46:27 AM

There is nothing in your post that explains how the effect of 100% inflation is offset for steem power holders

STEEM POWER is awarded 9 STEEM for every 1 STEEM that is printed, which offsets inflation for STEEM POWER stakeholders to approximately 11.11%.

so you are basically saying that inflation is offset by injecting more steem into the system ..oookayyyy

Inflation that is done by giving coins to someone else is not the same as inflation which gives coins to people who already own coins. The latter is more like a stock split and has no real effect on the value of your holdings. You might go from owning 1 STEEM worth $1 each to owning 10 STEEM worth $0.10 each (still worth $1 in total). Net result is little to no change in the value of your holding despite the high nominal inflation.

This doesn't make sense, if the steem are sellable on the market whether you give it to people who already own steem or not is irrelevant, there will be more steem in circulation and those steem will hit the market at some point

albert11

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Quote from: ?? on ??

You don't hold STEEM, you hold STEEM POWER, click "the divest button" and either reinvest your weekly STEEM payout back into STEEM POWER, or sell it on the open market immediately, either way, only a moron would hold "unpowered" STEEM. Which is why the float is small and volatility is high ( because nobody wants to hold depreciating unpowered STEEM).

It's simple math really.

Steemit itself said that steem power user would be able to profit from the steem price rise when they power down, this means that if the price drops ( which is likely in an hyper inflated system) they will lose a lot of money.

Explain how holding powered steem would protect you from hyperinflation? AFAIK it will not.

Zer0Sum

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Activity: 1588

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 01:20:42 AM

Even my mom has registered for Steemit and is blogging, but I can not for the life of me get her to use Bitcoin or Litecoin (although she does hodl).

This is why it's brilliant.

It's the first crypto underpinned by a USER FRIENDLY business model...
I mean, the idiots behind Monero can't even code a GUI wallet in 2 years...
Ethereum has zero usable apps... and average people have no clue WTF is going on.

But every millennial can do basic web posting...
The masses totally get STEEMIT (4,000 users last 24 hours, double from 3-4 days ago).

GreenBits

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Quote from: shanem on July 13, 2016, 10:17:03 AM

I don't know much about this coin but this coin is certainly in a bubble.
It has increased exponentially more than 10 times in a few weeks. If this is not a bubble, I don't know what is a bubble.

I won't touch this coin now as it is not impossible for this coin to drop 50% in a day.

I saw "STEEM" on an advert that popped up, I assumed I was looking at someone's Stream advert. It literally said "STEEM Sale", I thought they were referring to the Valve product (and the fact that the now accept bitcoin.)

So this is a coin? And why is the price so volatile?

shanem

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I don't know much about this coin but this coin is certainly in a bubble.
It has increased exponentially more than 10 times in a few weeks. If this is not a bubble, I don't know what is a bubble.

I won't touch this coin now as it is not impossible for this coin to drop 50% in a day.

smooth

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Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 03:16:20 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 02:53:18 AM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 02:46:27 AM

There is nothing in your post that explains how the effect of 100% inflation is offset for steem power holders

STEEM POWER is awarded 9 STEEM for every 1 STEEM that is printed, which offsets inflation for STEEM POWER stakeholders to approximately 11.11%.

so you are basically saying that inflation is offset by injecting more steem into the system ..oookayyyy

Inflation that is done by giving coins to someone else is not the same as inflation which gives coins to people who already own coins. The latter is more like a stock split and has no real effect on the value of your holdings. You might go from owning 1 STEEM worth $1 each to owning 10 STEEM worth $0.10 each (still worth $1 in total). Net result is little to no change in the value of your holding despite the high nominal inflation.

BigSirko

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Inflation and store of value will never go together. Nobody is going to keep their money in something inflating to the moon like Steemit, when it could sit into a bank and inflate less, or put it into real estate and other assets which exceed inflation rate.

Highly inflationary coins like Steemit usually go bust once people understand how bad the inflation is.

albert11

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Activity: 679

Merit: 500

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 02:53:18 AM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 02:46:27 AM

There is nothing in your post that explains how the effect of 100% inflation is offset for steem power holders

STEEM POWER is awarded 9 STEEM for every 1 STEEM that is printed, which offsets inflation for STEEM POWER stakeholders to approximately 11.11%.

so you are basically saying that inflation is offset by injecting more steem into the system ..oookayyyy

albert11

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Activity: 679

Merit: 500

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 02:53:18 AM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 02:46:27 AM

There is nothing in your post that explains how the effect of 100% inflation is offset for steem power holders

Yes there is. You are misunderstanding me.

I apologize if I am not being clear, but I suggest you read the whitepaper as I have repeated myself several times already.

Only STEEM inflates at 100%. STEEM POWER is awarded 9 STEEM for every 1 STEEM that is printed, which offsets inflation for STEEM POWER stakeholders to approximately 11.11%.

It is simple math.

1/9 = X/100
X = 11.11

Now, if you'll please excuse me... Bitcointalk doesn't pay me for contributing so I am going back to Steemit.

Cheers

first you said 9 steem are added, then divided and now again awarded, you are confused my friend
steem is exchanged for steem power at a ratio of 1:1 , both are inextricably linked. so the inflation of one will inevitably effect the other, as i said the only way to offset this inflation is by burning these coins, which in turn will burn steem power holders profits.

this is not math my friend this is basic economics.

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 02:46:27 AM

There is nothing in your post that explains how the effect of 100% inflation is offset for steem power holders

Yes there is. You are misunderstanding me.

I apologize if I am not being clear, but I suggest you read the whitepaper as I have repeated myself several times already.

Only STEEM inflates at 100%. STEEM POWER is awarded 9 STEEM for every 1 STEEM that is printed, which offsets inflation for STEEM POWER stakeholders to approximately 11.11%.

It is simple math.

1/9 = X/100
X = 11.11

Now, if you'll please excuse me... Bitcointalk doesn't pay me for contributing so I am going back to Steemit.

Cheers

albert11

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Activity: 679

Merit: 500

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 02:36:02 AM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 02:04:01 AM

Im not sure i understand this, where does those 9 steem come from and why are they now divided ,i thought you said they were added?

9 STEEM is printed out of thin air and distributed evenly to STEEM POWER stakeholders (the long term investors) for every 1 STEEM that is printed out of thin air for contribution rewards.

The only purpose of the 9 to 1 ratio is to offset the effects of inflation for long term investors. Without it long term investors would be debased by 100% annually. With it they are only debased approximately 11.11% annually.

STEEM inflates at 100% annually and is not intended to be a long term hodl-type investment token. It is only meant to transfer value from one long term investor to another. In other words, it is mainly an avenue to allow people to cash in and out of the ecosystem.

That's why you need to add those 9 steem to the 11% inflation which basically means 100% inflation. Those steem are injected into the market whether they are steem power or steem only is irrelevant so the inflation can not be only 11%. There is nothing in your post that explains how the effect of 100% inflation is offset for steem power holders

The only way you can offset inflation is by burning those coins, in this case you will also destroy steem power holder profits.

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: BigSirko on July 13, 2016, 02:18:23 AM

Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 01:36:26 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 13, 2016, 01:20:42 AM

STEEM which is "powered up" into STEEM POWER only inflates at approximately 11.11% per year. STEEM POWER gives someone more sway in content curation (up voting and down voting, a la Reddit).

For every 1 STEEM that is printed for contribution rewards, STEEM POWER stakeholders are credited with 9 STEEM.

This doesn't make sense. How can you credit more steem than miners produce?

because inflation is way higher than 11.11% and never mind developers are sitting on a huge stash.

You are referring to STEEM? Yes, it inflates at 100% annually. However, it is not intended to be a long term investment. It is simply a way for long term investors to enter or exit the ecosystem.

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: albert11 on July 13, 2016, 02:04:01 AM

Im not sure i understand this, where does those 9 steem come from and why are they now divided ,i thought you said they were added?

9 STEEM is printed out of thin air and distributed evenly to STEEM POWER stakeholders (the long term investors) for every 1 STEEM that is printed out of thin air for contribution rewards.

The only purpose of the 9 to 1 ratio is to offset the effects of inflation for long term investors. Without it long term investors would be debased by 100% annually. With it they are only debased approximately 11.11% annually.

STEEM inflates at 100% annually and is not intended to be a long term hodl-type investment token. It is only meant to transfer value from one long term investor to another. In other words, it is mainly an avenue to allow people to cash in and out of the ecosystem.

Topic: Steemit how can this thing be workable long term? - page 42. (Read 32368 times)