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Topic: Stephen Reed's Million Dollar Logistic Model - page 23. (Read 123190 times)

hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
As fictitious as we might believe mtGox price performance was over this past month it still played well with technical analysis. The green trend line was drawn back to the one-penny low on mtGox in October of 2010 (also coincides with 2.382 fib on the andrews fork I have tried to center on the chart). Even under all but total collapse that green dashed one-penny trend line, hinted at in an earlier post as 'your worst fears', that one-penny trendline held.

Traderview has Bitstamp exchange listed so I'll update this chart using the new symbol but for now, so long Gox charts - http://ponziunit.blogspot.com/2013/11/btcusd-using-traderviewcom-charting-tool.html :



You've just proved why technical analysis is akin to magic and tarrot card reading. You managed to draw up a chart that fits trend lines on an absolutely dead and not functioning exchange, and still come up with a price prediction. Chart's are nothing more then past last sale reference points. Staring at one long enough will eventually convince one of "patterns."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

TA practitioners and sages eventually all suffer from Apophenia. They can't even help themselves at some point, they will chart a cockroach running up a wall to  look for patterns.

Understanding why the bitcoin price was unsustainable is pretty basic, 3600 coins are created daily out of thin air. In November and December those coins were worth $5million a day, miners just couldn't resist hitting the bid. When you realize 80% of the supply is held by some ~200 individuals, you quickly comprehend how easy it is to manipulate the price. Mt. Gox had no issues paying fiat out to insiders when they wanted to cashout, but everyone else was held up by compliance/funds shortage. Same thing that Bitstamp does.

The Slippery Slope Million Dollar Logistic Model, is based on the fallacy of what occured in the past must continue in the future.

Some people will never find value in technical analysis and I'm not going to try to convince you it has any value either. I believe people often look deeper into technical analysis than they should. I'm dealing in facts, current price relative to previous price. I can make projections which is certainly not a fact, but each moment a new price posts, I can re-evaluate my position based on being more on target or more off target and then I may adjust my positions accordingly.

The only question I have for you Dr.Zaius is do you set stop losses and profit taking targets?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
The Slippery Slope Million Dollar Logistic Model, is based on the fallacy of what occured in the past must continue in the future.

To a certain extent, the past bitcoin price series does suggest a prediction for the future. Namely that there were bubbles and there will be more bubbles.

You misunderstand the mathematical nature of the logistic model when you state that it assumes that what occurred in the past must continue in the future. Eventually, the exponential growth of bitcoin prices must end. The logistic model is the simplest way to explain that phenomenon - that eventually future bitcoin prices will not have the exponential growth observed in the past, as we pass the 50% adoption rate by the population of possible bitcoin speculators. For a maximum bitcoin price of 1 million USD, the model predicts the halfway adoption point at year end 2016.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
As fictitious as we might believe mtGox price performance was over this past month it still played well with technical analysis. The green trend line was drawn back to the one-penny low on mtGox in October of 2010 (also coincides with 2.382 fib on the andrews fork I have tried to center on the chart). Even under all but total collapse that green dashed one-penny trend line, hinted at in an earlier post as 'your worst fears', that one-penny trendline held.

Traderview has Bitstamp exchange listed so I'll update this chart using the new symbol but for now, so long Gox charts - http://ponziunit.blogspot.com/2013/11/btcusd-using-traderviewcom-charting-tool.html :



You've just proved why technical analysis is akin to magic and tarrot card reading. You managed to draw up a chart that fits trend lines on an absolutely dead and not functioning exchange, and still come up with a price prediction. Chart's are nothing more then past last sale reference points. Staring at one long enough will eventually convince one of "patterns."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

TA practitioners and sages eventually all suffer from Apophenia. They can't even help themselves at some point, they will chart a cockroach running up a wall to  look for patterns.

Understanding why the bitcoin price was unsustainable is pretty basic, 3600 coins are created daily out of thin air. In November and December those coins were worth $5million a day, miners just couldn't resist hitting the bid. When you realize 80% of the supply is held by some ~200 individuals, you quickly comprehend how easy it is to manipulate the price. Mt. Gox had no issues paying fiat out to insiders when they wanted to cashout, but everyone else was held up by compliance/funds shortage. Same thing that Bitstamp does.

The Slippery Slope Million Dollar Logistic Model, is based on the fallacy of what occured in the past must continue in the future.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
I still think you're kinda nuts, but it's fun to keep dreaming with you during this fun ride, up, down, up, down... Wink

You can manipulate charts/lines almost anyway you want to make a point.  I'm not saying you specifically are doing this, but you are certainly "reaching" a bit.

I use a simple, widely applicable, mathematical model to explain historical bitcoin prices and to characterize the circumstances in which exponential bitcoin exponential price growth eventually slows down. Fitting the model requires me to guess at a maximum bitcoin price, and I selected 1 million USD per bitcoin as explained earlier.

I figure that 2014 is the last year in which ordinary persons will be able to afford a whole bitcoin, because the logistic model suggests prices next year will range between 10000 and 100000 USD. Glad that you are along for the ride.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
March 2014 Logistic Model Status

Here is the log chart for the logistic model covering 2013 and 2014 . . .



Presently the bitcoin price of $575 is significantly below the model value of $856. I share the conventional wisdom on this forum that the next Bitcoin bubble will begin in a few months as illustrated below, assuming that the next bubble is similar to the last two bubbles  . . .



The shared spreadsheet is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArD8rjI3DD1WdFIzNDFMeEhVSzhwcEVXZDVzdVpGU2c
 

I still think you're kinda nuts, but it's fun to keep dreaming with you during this fun ride, up, down, up, down... Wink

You can manipulate charts/lines almost anyway you want to make a point.  I'm not saying you specifically are doing this, but you are certainly "reaching" a bit.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
March 2014 Logistic Model Status

Here is the log chart for the logistic model covering 2013 and 2014 . . .



Presently the bitcoin price of $575 is significantly below the model value of $856. I share the conventional wisdom on this forum that the next Bitcoin bubble will begin in a few months as illustrated below, assuming that the next bubble is similar to the last two bubbles  . . .



The shared spreadsheet is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArD8rjI3DD1WdFIzNDFMeEhVSzhwcEVXZDVzdVpGU2c
 
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
I'm afraid this graphs might be a bit optimistic when it comes to this 4 years distance . In reality it might be much bigger. Also the price would go up forever, we can be sure about it, problem is when. 4 years or maybe 400 years. Price, even though at some point placed inside mathematical algorithm, still can be speculated in different ways.

Base on price from few years ago 10k for bitcoin sounds about right, problem is when.

The beautiful thing about charts, and statistic for that matter, is that generally you can manipulate them in almost anyway you see fit.  Someone posted we're in a bear run now based on X chart with X lines drawn in and X times frame.  10 minutes later someone posted Y chart showing bull run.  How long is the chart?  How "wide" on the lines and/or moving averages.  All these factors are huge when it comes to charts.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Cryptocurrencies Exchange
I'm afraid this graphs might be a bit optimistic when it comes to this 4 years distance . In reality it might be much bigger. Also the price would go up forever, we can be sure about it, problem is when. 4 years or maybe 400 years. Price, even though at some point placed inside mathematical algorithm, still can be speculated in different ways.

Base on price from few years ago 10k for bitcoin sounds about right, problem is when.
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
 As fictitious as we might believe mtGox price performance was over this past month it still played well with technical analysis. The green trend line was drawn back to the one-penny low on mtGox in October of 2010 (also coincides with 2.382 fib on the andrews fork I have tried to center on the chart). Even under all but total collapse that green dashed one-penny trend line, hinted at in an earlier post as 'your worst fears', that one-penny trendline held.

Traderview has Bitstamp exchange listed so I'll update this chart using the new symbol but for now, so long Gox charts - http://ponziunit.blogspot.com/2013/11/btcusd-using-traderviewcom-charting-tool.html :

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
The Logistic Model is now revised to use mainly Bitstamp prices

With the shutdown of Mt.Gox, I revised the Logistic Model to use Bitstamp prices starting January 1, 2012. I also manually re-fit the logistic model parameters to the new price series. To the extent that this model is a valid representation of the adoption of bitcoin by the population of possible speculators, the predictions remain the same. Prices will fluctuate around a logarithmic growth curve averaging about 10x increase per year until growth inevitably begins to slow down. I performed sensitivity analysis of the model using a variety of hypothetical maximum bitcoin prices and observed that the 10x growth rate is common regardless of the maximum price.

Considering the November 2013 bitcoin price bubble, it is remarkable that Mt.Gox again plays a major role in the recent collapse as it also did in the collapse of the greatest bitcoin bubble back in June 2011. 

Inspecting the model log chart, I suppose that prices will remain below the log trend line for a few more months and then rally above it in a manner similar to the price rallies of April 2013 and November 2013.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArD8rjI3DD1WdFIzNDFMeEhVSzhwcEVXZDVzdVpGU2c
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
Interesting that the pin from today's low price (so far) tapped the -.382 (fibonacci) handle of the Andrews Pitchfork. Price appears to be acting 'in tune' with this technical analysis tool.

The median line is black, yellow is .236, purple is .382, green is .5, gray is .618 and blue is .786 with the bold dark lines being 0 and 1 with negative values below the median line and positive above. Price reversals at any of these fib lines implies that the median line continues to be 'in tune' with the long term price trend. A break below today's low, and the -.5 fib becomes the next lower target. Keep in mind that these trend lines are rising over time so any specific price point is paired with a specific date as well.


hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
Click on the big gray arrow to add the candles from the bottom call.

(if this were a trade, the bottom call is done, I'd set stops and either price would continue to run or it would fall a little and close out - this is not a trade for me so I still hodl so there's still risk going forward)

https://www.tradingview.com/v/bnBph6N0/
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
Quote
Also, I can't afford to hire anyone smarter than me, and I won't hire anyone dumber than me. 

I feel discriminated against.  Helen, get my lawyer on the phone!
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
Are you really getting an ROI, when you figure in the time you spend setting it up and dealing with issues to etc... Just Curious to know.

I am a computer hobbyist, so it is better to have an engaging hobby that pays even a little as compared to a hobby that simply costs.

Furthermore, the setup of a typical mining rig is quite scalable insofar as additional rigs are hardware and software copies of the reference working rig. But suppose that I replace the six obsolete 5770 cards with modern R9 280x cards. One could argue that with bitcoin increasing in price 10x per year, the funds spent on a mining farm scale-out could be better invested in simply buying coin. I expect that I will incrementally upgrade my rigs.

Another concern is that ASIC rigs will be available sometime this year for scrypt-altcoin, e.g. Litecoin, mining. I am not too worried about the sudden obsolescence of my graphic card rigs because a new proof-of-work algorithm could be designed to appeal to the large number of graphic-card miners. It is the population of miners that provide the initial enthusiasm for a coin.


donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
When you save you "must" mine, I say you "must" get a better financial planner.  Cheesy
No financial planner would have my goals.  If they did, they would be institutionalized.  Also, I can't afford to hire anyone smarter than me, and I won't hire anyone dumber than me. 

Wisdom. (Except I never had a job that would pay $300k)
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
When you save you "must" mine, I say you "must" get a better financial planner.  Cheesy

No financial planner would have my goals.  If they did, they would be institutionalized.  Also, I can't afford to hire anyone smarter than me, and I won't hire anyone dumber than me. 

sr. member
Activity: 475
Merit: 255
Are you really getting an ROI

Mining is a crap shoot, very bimodal.  Either you win or lose money.  If you do it well, persistently, you come out ahead.  Is it worth it?  Depends on how desperate you are for more coins, I guess.  I'm pretty desperate.  My day job only pays 300k/an, and I already took out a home loan and a business loan, so to get more coins, I must mine.


Your day job is 300k/an.  An = annually?  Is that in Lira?  Pesos?  Hungarian Floret?  Huh

When you save you "must" mine, I say you "must" get a better financial planner.  Cheesy

Here is something for some comparison :-)
http://www.globalrichlist.com/
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
Are you really getting an ROI

Mining is a crap shoot, very bimodal.  Either you win or lose money.  If you do it well, persistently, you come out ahead.  Is it worth it?  Depends on how desperate you are for more coins, I guess.  I'm pretty desperate.  My day job only pays 300k/an, and I already took out a home loan and a business loan, so to get more coins, I must mine.


Your day job is 300k/an.  An = annually?  Is that in Lira?  Pesos?  Hungarian Floret?  Huh

When you save you "must" mine, I say you "must" get a better financial planner.  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
Are you really getting an ROI

Mining is a crap shoot, very bimodal.  Either you win or lose money.  If you do it well, persistently, you come out ahead.  Is it worth it?  Depends on how desperate you are for more coins, I guess.  I'm pretty desperate.  My day job only pays 300k/an, and I already took out a home loan and a business loan, so to get more coins, I must mine.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
The Joy of Mining

The emergence of scrypt-based coins, popularized by Litecoin, has made it profitable to again earn bitcoin on my dusted-off graphic card mining rigs. I am running three rigs with a total of six 5770 cards. The operating system is Ubuntu, I run cgminer 3.7.2 and achieve about 144 KHs per card. The conversion to bitcoin is handled automatically by the pool software which heuristically chooses among various exchange-traded crypto currency coins and mines a particular network until it becomes unprofitable to mine when compared to other candidate crypto currency coins. I use TradeMyBit as its operator posts frequently on the pool forum. It is an easy upgrade from the obsolete 5770 cards to expensive but currently in stock R9 280x cards. My first one is on its way - yay!

The coinwarz web site gives a great profit calculation of daily dollar profit on each ranked crypto currency coin given hashing power and price of power. When I input the figures for a single R9 280x card, 700 MHs and 250 watts respectively, the projected Revenue / Profit (per day) for my local power usage is projected to be $15.24 / $14.54 for Tagcoin at rank number one, and  $8.70 / $8.00 for Neocoin ranked five. The actual profit is lower, chiefly due to fees and the effects of periodic coin network switching that result in stale shares and rejects.

When bitcoin prices eventually explosively rally again as suggested by the logistic model trendline, it is very likely that the most-popular-at-the-time scrypt-based coins will exceed the price acceleration of bitcoin, i.e. have a higher beta. I look forward to manually selecting coins to mine from TMB at that time for postponed exchange into bitcoin.


Are you really getting an ROI, when you figure in the time you spend setting it up and dealing with issues to etc... Just Curious to know.
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