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Topic: Stephen Reed's Million Dollar Logistic Model - page 28. (Read 123218 times)

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
December 24, 2013, 12:54:02 PM
#53
I'm curious, for things where this model applies. Do we expect the overshoot that will happen at the saturation point and the following overcorrection be relatively larger or smaller than the overshooting/overrcorrectios along the growth path?

I'm asking because no-one will ever really know when we've reached the saturation point (and no further exponential rise is coming) until it happened.

I agree with many here who think that the bitcoin price bubbles are becoming less severe percentage-wise - so perhaps the final overshoot will be smaller than those that preceded it.

Yes, I have noticed the same thing, and that is a possibility (less volatile bubbles over time for what I will call your "speculative adoption" logistic curve)

But I'm getting at a different question. As I understand it, your model is tracking "speculative adoption" for lack of a better word. I understand why you are doing this, as the first "ultimate ATH" for BTC will almost certainly be driven mostly by speculation - as we are seeing now. This will take us quickly to some maximum price (eg. $1M). I/we expect that this "speculative adoption" will be far ahead of "utility adoption" which will probably lag significantly. Most new technology adoption models (I've posted a few here over the years) suggest that when the "speculative adoption" gets far ahead of the "utility adoption" a massive speculative correction often takes places over many years to bring the price back into alignment with current fundamental value. This is a different phenomenon than the mini bubbles on the way up the logistic curve. This seems to me would indicate the underlying model stops working at this point. This might suggest that once hitting $1M btc (for example) will drop back tremendously to perhaps 1/10 while "utility adoption" catches up. It might be then several more years before price climbs back to close to ATH - if ever.

As I'm writing, my question becomes more clear.. "How will we know when the logistic "speculative adoption" curve has run its course and a much bigger - long-term, fundamental - correction has begun.?" Several answers spring to mind, but would appreciate your thoughts.
Bitrider makes a great point. There are two values,
a) Peak value of Utility Adoption
b) Peak value of Speculative Adoption
Peak value of Speculative Adoption = (Approximately) 10 * Peak value of Utility Adoption

SlipperySlope's S-Curve model (which is a great model and one I like very much), can only be used to model the adoption rate/ relative appreciation of price over time. It does not tell you what the final price will be.
The key insight this model provides is that if you are planning on investing in Bitcoin, you should do so in the next 3 to 6 months. Ideally you should invest all now, however given the fact that we have had a run up and might be consolidating for quite some time. We can dollar cost average or invest during pullbacks, till the middle of 2014.

full member
Activity: 233
Merit: 101
December 24, 2013, 08:59:55 AM
#52
I'm curious, for things where this model applies. Do we expect the overshoot that will happen at the saturation point and the following overcorrection be relatively larger or smaller than the overshooting/overrcorrectios along the growth path?

I'm asking because no-one will ever really know when we've reached the saturation point (and no further exponential rise is coming) until it happened.

I agree with many here who think that the bitcoin price bubbles are becoming less severe percentage-wise - so perhaps the final overshoot will be smaller than those that preceded it.

Yes, I have noticed the same thing, and that is a possibility (less volatile bubbles over time for what I will call your "speculative adoption" logistic curve)

But I'm getting at a different question. As I understand it, your model is tracking "speculative adoption" for lack of a better word. I understand why you are doing this, as the first "ultimate ATH" for BTC will almost certainly be driven mostly by speculation - as we are seeing now. This will take us quickly to some maximum price (eg. $1M). I/we expect that this "speculative adoption" will be far ahead of "utility adoption" which will probably lag significantly. Most new technology adoption models (I've posted a few here over the years) suggest that when the "speculative adoption" gets far ahead of the "utility adoption" a massive speculative correction often takes places over many years to bring the price back into alignment with current fundamental value. This is a different phenomenon than the mini bubbles on the way up the logistic curve. This seems to me would indicate the underlying model stops working at this point. This might suggest that once hitting $1M btc (for example) will drop back tremendously to perhaps 1/10 while "utility adoption" catches up. It might be then several more years before price climbs back to close to ATH - if ever.

As I'm writing, my question becomes more clear.. "How will we know when the logistic "speculative adoption" curve has run its course and a much bigger - long-term, fundamental - correction has begun.?" Several answers spring to mind, but would appreciate your thoughts.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
December 23, 2013, 07:34:30 PM
#51
I'm curious, for things where this model applies. Do we expect the overshoot that will happen at the saturation point and the following overcorrection be relatively larger or smaller than the overshooting/overrcorrectios along the growth path?

I'm asking because no-one will ever really know when we've reached the saturation point (and no further exponential rise is coming) until it happened.

I agree with many here who think that the bitcoin price bubbles are becoming less severe percentage-wise - so perhaps the final overshoot will be smaller than those that preceded it.
full member
Activity: 233
Merit: 101
December 23, 2013, 11:58:48 AM
#50
Good question. I've been trying to think through that same issue myself. ?
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
December 23, 2013, 05:53:09 AM
#49
I'm curious, for things where this model applies. Do we expect the overshoot that will happen at the saturation point and the following overcorrection be relatively larger or smaller than the overshooting/overrcorrectios along the growth path?

I'm asking because no-one will ever really know when we've reached the saturation point (and no further exponential rise is coming) until it happened.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
December 22, 2013, 08:34:35 PM
#48
This will be interesting to follow as time progresses. Am I to understand correctly that timing of vertical of S curve is correct based on fitting to prior history, and only part under question is whether it will level off at $1 million, or above/below?

Yes, I simply guessed at a plausible high maximum price for bitcoin. We are still in the exponential growth phase of the S-Curve, doubling on average three times per year. The growth slowdown will occur, according to theory, when 50% of the population of those who will ever buy bitcoin for speculation - have done so.
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
December 22, 2013, 12:31:55 PM
#47
Price appears to be coping with adversity quite well. Though fears grab headlines, word of the knock-on effect surrounding early Bitcoin adopters and their successes is just starting to spread. Next year there should be demonstrations of economic advantages for Governments learning to co-exist with Bitcoin - probably could word that better... step aside maybe?  Wink

Thanks for fixing that link Bagatell.

Two charts: choose your worst fears using these lines for near term bearish price targets and extend that line out into 2015 for a pleasant surprise.

live chart link: https://www.tradingview.com/e/M1ZPd859/

https://www.tradingview.com/v/oc3YX0JB/  Wink
full member
Activity: 204
Merit: 100
December 22, 2013, 10:26:53 AM
#46
Can someone do the same for litecoins?
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 146
December 22, 2013, 09:24:02 AM
#45
Very interesting post. Thank you.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
December 22, 2013, 03:05:07 AM
#44
This will be interesting to follow as time progresses. Am I to understand correctly that timing of vertical of S curve is correct based on fitting to prior history, and only part under question is whether it will level off at $1 million, or above/below?
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1265
December 21, 2013, 06:46:55 PM
#43
What do you guys think would happen to altcoins in such a scenario?

I'm curious, because I'm all in on StableCoin  Tongue

Altcoins are vessels to mine and dump.
Probably there will always be altcoins since people like trading.
I do believe many will go out of existence and new ones will be created.

Only a few altcoins will remain like Litecoin, probably the ones with good devs, marketing and adoption by consumer services.

I myself have Emerald, Spots and Hobonickels waiting to be sold in the future Cheesy

My BTC0.02
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
December 21, 2013, 05:09:43 PM
#42
What do you guys think would happen to altcoins in such a scenario?

I'm curious, because I'm all in on StableCoin  Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
December 21, 2013, 06:27:00 AM
#41
Very nice post, thank you !
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
December 21, 2013, 03:10:58 AM
#40
Impressive work! Smiley

Thank you.

And may you swiftly become a $ billionaire.

Even I cannot fail it in this short time Wink
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
December 20, 2013, 05:06:44 PM
#39
Impressive work! Smiley

Thank you.

And may you swiftly become a $ billionaire.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
December 20, 2013, 03:37:44 PM
#38
Impressive work! Smiley
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
December 20, 2013, 12:34:13 PM
#37
What events in 2014 can propel bitcoin higher?

Here are a few plausible events happening next year to drive bitcoin prices higher . . .

  • the opening of the Winklevii bitcoin EFT - currently being reviewed by the SEC
  • at least one American bitcoin exchange opening as at least one US bank figures out how to comply with clarified Know Your Customer and Anti-Money Laundering regulations
  • Chinese bitcoin exchanges likewise figure out how to comply with KYC/AML regulations and also figure out how to directly connect with customer bank accounts, beyond the few currently supported, e.g. Merchants Bank of China by BTCChina.
  • Transaction volume increases apace with recent history, enabled by newsworthy adoption events, e.g. 10x more transactions via merchants accepting bitcoin.

In order for prices to ascend from here - $737 currently - to a 2014 year-end value of $6437 as predicted by the logistic price trendline, about 10x more speculative activity needs to occur. This increase in adoption could be realized by new exchanges opening, and especially by greater freedom of operation permitted to Chinese exchanges. I agree with many observers that 2014 will be the year in which institutional investors, and retirement account investors, begin moving large amounts of buy-and-hold funds to bitcoin. The huge success of the Bitcoin Investment Trust in the past couple of months is an indication of what is probably ahead for 2014.

I suppose that the net sellers of bitcoin in 2014 will be those who bought before April of 2013 and have 100x or more profit unrealized.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
December 19, 2013, 11:09:26 AM
#36
Before to replace "the currency worldwide" as you said, SlipperySlope, the Bitcoin needs to be accepted by merchants who choose to accept payments in cryptocurrencies.
hero member
Activity: 722
Merit: 500
December 19, 2013, 01:56:55 AM
#35
Two charts: choose your worst fears using these lines for near term bearish price targets and extend that line out into 2015 for a pleasant surprise.

live chart link: https://www.tradingview.com/e/M1ZPd859/#

https://www.tradingview.com/v/oc3YX0JB/  Wink
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
December 18, 2013, 06:20:00 PM
#34
Two charts: choose your worst fears using these lines for near term bearish price targets and extend that line out into 2015 for a pleasant surprise.

If you've seen the thread in speculation you know what I mean when I say 'I'm hodling'. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-am-hodling-375643






live chart link: https://www.tradingview.com/e/M1ZPd859/#
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