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Topic: Suggestion: allow on-forum altcoin giveaways for established altcoins (Read 1046 times)

copper member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
It might have already been said, but there is inherently going to be a bias problem in determining which coins are established.

For example, I think everybody can agree that Litecoin, Dogecoin, and Ethereum are both established. But what about e.g. Solana which has market cap #3?

What about something like Bcash? [this will probably bring a strong no but then it's going to tarnish this forum's purpose as a "free-speech crypto discussion place"].

I think this point is one reason why exceptions will not be made to the rule referenced in the OP.

To somewhat piggyback on your point, establishing exceptions may make some view that the forum sees a particular (group of) altcoins as more legitimate (less of a scam), than others. Even if there would be no legal basis to this, there may be a moral/ethical basis, regardless of any disclosures made.

If there was a "neutral" criteria, there would be the potential for some to claim that the criteria is designed to include/exclude certain altcoins. Any neutral criteria would also likely require the reliance on third parties to make judgments, which leads to its own set of issues.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Then remove your old bump. Grin
What old bump?  Grin

I think everybody can agree that Litecoin, Dogecoin, and Ethereum are both established. But what about e.g. Solana which has market cap #3?
It's #9 on CMC, and I've never used it. But I can find ways to exchange it into Bitcoin without KYC, so I'd say that's okay.

This crap can be found in tens of thousands of posts in thousands of pages in the bounties sub.
Tens of thousands? That's cute:
I did a count in my posts archive. Facebook is mentioned 19.8 million times, Twitter 30.9 million times. This probably includes double counting the links, but even without that it's still staggering number considering the forum only has 60 million posts in total and I haven't included posts that were deleted in the first 10 years.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
You are allowed to have bounties with unlisted scam tokens that will never amount to anything and no one cares. We call that scams not being moderated and staff not meddling in other people's business. But if you give away a coin that is listed and is trading (no matter what people might think of it), you get yourself banned because that apparently makes sense. You either have freedom of choice or you don't. If you allow people to get scammed on Bitcointalk and allow me to create and distribute the Pmalek token through bounties, why prevent me from giving people ETH or LTC or X? Freedom of choice is also allowing me to make my own mistakes and receive any altcoin I want to. Freedom of choice entails teaching me not to accept that altcoin and explaining the reasons why. 

The incentivized posting rule doesn't make sense.
This crap can be found in tens of thousands of posts in thousands of pages in the bounties sub. Same thing with the reports for social media bounties. But that's ok.

Quote
PROOF OF REGISTRATION
Forum Username: X
Forum Profile Link : X
Telegram Username: X
Participated Campaigns: X
ETH Wallet Address:  X


BTC giveaways where you only post your bitcoin address don't generate spam. ETH giveaways where you post an ETH address generates spam and is incentivized posting because of science apparently. 
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
It might have already been said, but there is inherently going to be a bias problem in determining which coins are established.

For example, I think everybody can agree that Litecoin, Dogecoin, and Ethereum are both established. But what about e.g. Solana which has market cap #3?

What about something like Bcash? [this will probably bring a strong no but then it's going to tarnish this forum's purpose as a "free-speech crypto discussion place"].
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Another topic reminded me to bump this thread.
Then remove your old bump. Grin

Like I said in the other thread, you aren't allowed to offer an altcoin giveaway. Just wrap it differently. Bounties are allowed. Create a bounty thread. To participate in the bounty, I have to follow you on Twitter and make a re-tweet saying "LTC to the moon". After that, I write the usual authentification post or bounty report in your thread (because that's allowed), and I get the bounty. No rules were broken in the process. 
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
This topic reminded me to bump this thread.
Another topic reminded me to bump this thread.
legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 1451
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I don't like this idea to be perfectly honest.
I'd much rather see giveaways take place in third party platforms in order to avoid overloading the forum with simple and mindless address posts.

A third party website could verify bitcointalk account level by scraping an alphanumerical code the user was requested to put in his profile once.
The giveaway itself IMO would surely be worth a thread in bitcointalk, but NOT for promotion or to be facilitated in the forum. Just to have actual discussion on issues, assistance etc.
Address posting is just needless bumps and unfair to bounty managers that have build platforms and tracking methods keeping the forum spam-free.

If 'established' altcoins wanted to promote a giveaway, I maybe the forum should make a concession and allow them to buy ads. Hell, if it's just giveaways, why not allow every coin to buy an ad? The mere fact that it costs something to buy it will probably deter the worst ones.
legendary
Activity: 3178
Merit: 1140
#SWGT CERTIK Audited
I support this and I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed if an altcoin is listed in many major exchanges.
I see members afraid about scamcoins... since when the forum is monitoring scams? Flags are here to do the job and warn people.
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
I think a good way to solve this issue with maximal positive effect is to either establish some kind of protocol that must be followed, or perhaps some kind of script to automate things. This would enable giveaways while also keeping it from shitting up the forum with useless posts.

That's exactly what I'm doing!  Club members can receive a monthly giveaway of promising alt coins.  Smiley

Not that the forum really cares about scams... but best watch out if you post twice in a row!

 Undecided
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
Here's my solution. Allow everything, but create a special subsection for Altcoin promotional giveaways and here's where the forum benefits. Require every giveaway thread to donate 1 million sats to the forum.

The spam is limited to that board. The forum gets some money. It's win-win.
People lose money to scammers, win-win indeed. Roll Eyes It is time to stop embracing innocent and naive individuals being financially harmed (and in extreme cases ruined) because of own petty greed.
I wonder where the lapse in logic happened where we are both banning altcoins due to spam and scams and where we have already created a board exclusively for scams (investor-based games).

Not that the forum really cares about scams... but best watch out if you post twice in a row!
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
I think a good way to solve this issue with maximal positive effect is to either establish some kind of protocol that must be followed, or perhaps some kind of script to automate things. This would enable giveaways while also keeping it from shitting up the forum with useless posts.
full member
Activity: 305
Merit: 106
...The stance towards ICOs was terribly wrong, and everyone knows it. It led to the following: A handful of scammers getting rich, a handful of intelligent scammers getting rich, a fair number of people profiting from the pumping in these scams, and an enormous amount of people being financially harmed. Good stance indeed. Undecided

True ! That is why nobody here (luckily) will allow altcoin giveaways, ICO advertising and so on ... because even currently ok crypto can fail in awful ways and why should anyone here be (sort of) held responsible for that ?

If I have to post my casino username to get Bitcoin, it's the same type of no-value post as if I have to do the same to get Litecoin.
I understand very well that the bans were not issued for the spam part, but for taking part in an altcoin giveaway. I am just making a point.

In bitcoin we trust. In the others not so much. Would you bet your parent's house on any altcoin from coinmarketcap ? I wouldn't...

So "allow on-forum altcoin giveaways for established altcoins" ... no thank you !

Even cryptotalk (yobit forum) pays users in btc, not some weird new crypto from their investbox or ETH or their own coin(s) for that matter. That sure says something Smiley))
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Scams are not moderated but at least spam is. And these giveaways tend to create lots of it.
So do Bitcoin giveaways. Those temp bans that were recently issued were given to members who participated during the weeks that altcoins were given out. But when Bitcoin was given away there were no bans. If the spam those types of post create is the problem, then it is all the same.

If I have to post my casino username to get Bitcoin, it's the same type of no-value post as if I have to do the same to get Litecoin.
I understand very well that the bans were not issued for the spam part, but for taking part in an altcoin giveaway. I am just making a point.

a lot of users lost their bitcoins after downloading a malicious wallet from the official bitcoin gold website that infected their computer and stole their private keys...
Users lose Bitcoin every day downloading fake Electrum wallets. The same security measures we undergo when downloading and verifying Electrum should be done with other software as well and if in doubt, don't use it.

Bitcoin Gold is not something I would vote for or allow either and I doubt it would find its way on the list.    

  
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2970
Terminated.
Here's my solution. Allow everything, but create a special subsection for Altcoin promotional giveaways and here's where the forum benefits. Require every giveaway thread to donate 1 million sats to the forum.

The spam is limited to that board. The forum gets some money. It's win-win.
People lose money to scammers, win-win indeed. Roll Eyes It is time to stop embracing innocent and naive individuals being financially harmed (and in extreme cases ruined) because of own petty greed.

Even at the peak of ICO spam, when almost every ICO turned into a scam, they could create their Bounty threads with thousands of zombies posting virtually unrestricted. If they didn't have to pay the forum for doing so, I don't think a giveaway should have to pay either.
If we did things the wrong way in the past, this means that we should continue doing it the wrong way just because we did it like that previously? I do not follow this logic. The stance towards ICOs was terribly wrong, and everyone knows it. It led to the following: A handful of scammers getting rich, a handful of intelligent scammers getting rich, a fair number of people profiting from the pumping in these scams, and an enormous amount of people being financially harmed. Good stance indeed. Undecided
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Here's my solution. Allow everything, but create a special subsection for Altcoin promotional giveaways and here's where the forum benefits. Require every giveaway thread to donate 1 million sats to the forum.

The spam is limited to that board. The forum gets some money. It's win-win.
Theymos said the forum doesn't need money (it owns ~1250 Bitcoin).
Even at the peak of ICO spam, when almost every ICO turned into a scam, they could create their Bounty threads with thousands of zombies posting virtually unrestricted. If they didn't have to pay the forum for doing so, I don't think a giveaway should have to pay either.
hero member
Activity: 1492
Merit: 763
Life is a taxable event
Here's my solution. Allow everything, but create a special subsection for Altcoin promotional giveaways and here's where the forum benefits. Require every giveaway thread to donate 1 million sats to the forum.

The spam is limited to that board. The forum gets some money. It's win-win.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
Don't know about you but never felt poorer after receiving an airdrop. But that's just me I guess Smiley

it is because you were lucky and/or you received the "airdrop" in a wallet you already had or in a third party wallet like exchanges. there are a lot of people who did get poorer after receiving such "airdrops", example: bitcoin gold giveaway. a lot of users lost their bitcoins after downloading a malicious wallet from the official bitcoin gold website that infected their computer and stole their private keys...
full member
Activity: 305
Merit: 106
...

The problem is bigger that that... Let's assume that mods pick the cream of the crop shitcoins and giveaways with those coins are fair game. That means somehow they are acknowledging that coin. They are proposing it, trust it, even advertise it.
Nobody wants to do that... especially theymos.
Seems to be the same case as ICO adversiting on the forum... a no go!
Which coin are you confortable to recomend?  Bitcoin!
Think a bit about this before having any more doubts Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Allowing one altcoin giveaway to be discussed here and denying another doesn’t seem to fit with free speech.
I don't see what this has to do with free speech. You can still discuss any shitcoin elsewhere, you just can't give them away. Just like it is now for that matter.

And - correct me if I'm wrong - it's not the actual giveaways that are forbidden, it's the "I want to join this giveaway, here's my address" type of posts. In other words, if someone wants to run an altcoin giveaway outside of the forum and even link it here - that should be fine. As long as they don't incentivize low-effort posting/bumping.
That is indeed my understanding. Viewing this from a different angle I don't even know why low-effort posting for a Bitcoins giveaway is allowed.

What bothers me is the rule of banning and if you got me earlier then it's not very friendly rule which is obviously confusing or we would not see so many users got trapped in it including a lot of us who are well aware of the rules and respect it by heart. Do you think some of the users really care much about those altcoin if they had this in mind in the next morning they will see they are banned? The answer is of course NO.
I had this in mind too, when I posted my suggestion. I get where the instant temporary ban is coming from, namely ending spam. But many other rules can be broken without an instant ban. Spamming referral links for instance will only get your post deleted, and I don't believe joining a giveaway deserves a bigger punishment.

Currently there's very little stopping a casino or an exchange from creating a thread with a promotion saying "Go to our website, enter "bitcointalk.org" as a promo code, and receive 1 billion shitcoins that we now accept."  As far as I know that would not be against the rules, and no spam will result from it.
Correct. But why would they do that, if they barely get any publicity that way? For the same reason Bitcointalk allows millions of "proof of authentication" posts: the spammers promote the thread, and again, I find this worse than joining a giveaway with real value.

but this negative consequence is made worse by the fact that most of the world will be spending an increased amount of time on the internet in the coming weeks.
It's like we're all grounded.

Didn't see anyone complain before this 7 day ban that got cut short.
Correct, the fact that that many well-known users thought posting there wouldn't be a problem made me doubt the current rules.

@LoyceV what do you mean by established shitcoins? Top 10 CMC:
Several of those I've never used. But if someone were to offer a $100 giveaway, I wouldn't mind checking how to convert it to Bitcoin.

I think an on the record /public apology by the likes of mprep etc is warranted.
I couldn't disagree more. Don't blame the messanger, mprep is just fair to all, without special treatment for established users.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2970
Terminated.
I'm conflicted on this one.  I'm naturally drawn to the pragmatism of the "live and let live" attitude some have expressed, but I also have a weird kind of respect for Lauda's decidedly puritanical stance.  
Thank you.

Looking at it solely from an impartial, practical sense, I can only ever see it creating a constantly moving set of goalposts if, once we've even established what the criteria is, we try to judge whether an "established" altcoin remains so over time.  Crypto moves pretty fast.  I remember a period when Namecoin and Peercoin were considered part of the furniture, traded for BTC on just about every exchange you could sign up for, but now they're just largely forgotten trinkets for bagholders.  What might be viewed as established today may not stay that way tomorrow, so it's just going to cause arguments later down the line when someone has to make the arbitrary decision that coin is not allowed to be included in on-forum giveaways anymore, but rising-star coin suddenly is.
As you said, it is not practical either and opens a can of worms. I think this may also lead to many more problems. What happens when somebody buys some coin because the forum staff declared it as established (this being the sole reason for their purchase), but it ends up being a disastrous scam of sorts? Who is to blame?  It is just simple and easier not to do this.
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