Sumo betting seems rigged - can you make profit with it? - page 5.

madnessteat

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usually this kind of fights are more on exhibitions and me as a childish person i loved it hehe but i noticed that mature people like my dad and uncle will favor real fights (ufc and boxing ) and not wrestling or sumo .

Yeah, it's probably an age thing. When one gets older, one stops liking shows and wants something more serious. Although it's been many years since I've watched wrestling, oddly enough I still remember some of the fighters, such as Hulk Hogan, Sting and Rey Mysterio.

Unlike wrestling I never had any interest in sumo so I don't know any of the fighters.

adzino

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Nothing to be surprise about to be honest. Every sports and games are sometimes rigged. Money can buy anything. Even professional players can fall into the hands of greed.
After all they all are human and to err is human, right?

Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

-snip-
Do you feel that knowing that a sport may be rigged you could actually turn it in your favour?
-snip-

You can make profit from it if you are involved with one of those people that are rigging the games or have some kind of information from the inside (which is very unlikely for ordinary people like us). Or you may just get really lucky and win it.

sunsilk

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Quote from: TimeTeller on May 11, 2021, 06:40:03 PM

Quote from: sunsilk on May 11, 2021, 06:33:18 PM

I know that Japanese are one of the most honest people in the world and it's part of their culture. But there really is the chance that a sumo game can be rigged but talking as if I'm sure of it, I can't stand with that as I have never bet with any sumo match.

By the way, in which common sports book we can see sumo wrestling matches to bet on?

They are honest people but in sports like this, rigging is always possible.
We don't know the combination of people involved in this sport, and there will always be a bad apple in the group.
Haven't really followed this sport, so maybe if you are familiar with the players and how they perform, you can spot if something is wrong with the match.

I agree that there would still be people that would stain the good reputation of any sports. As long as there's money involved, there would be some bad intentions that will be made just to make the most of out it whether it would be from the wrestlers or the management itself.

As for the catching if there's something wrong, let's just leave it to those that have been watching sumo wrestling for a long time and they might not be an expert to say but at least they know how to spot it on.

BITCOIN4X

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Quote from: Fortify on May 12, 2021, 02:30:07 PM

It is still a rather obscure sport without much betting activity outside of Japan, probably for this very reason.

Manipulation in sports may not only happen to Sumo, but I am sure many other sports have also stumbled on similar case such as football. I personally never once bet on Sumo and cheating in this sport has escaped my sight. Perhaps because Sumo is not very popular among the non-Japanese population, it is still unlikely that it will have much effect on our gambling activities even if it seem that it is manipulated.

Fortify

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Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

It has been said that Sumo, the Japanese fighting sport is not as clean as it should be. Apparently, in the maximum cathegory - short of a premier league - there is tendency to let win those who need to win in order to remain in that cathegory. This was studied and mentioned later on a book called Freakconomics.

I remember reading Freakonomics and the reference to sumo wrestlers. It is very ironic that a game so steeped in history and claiming to be all about honor would work in such a way. I guess, as that book noted, it was inevitable from the way the sport is structured - a very tight knit community that is hard to break into without a certain training background. It seems akin to the highest level members only golf clubs that exist all around the world and require certain invitations, even approval from all existing members, before a new member can be admitted. Except that gamblers will be losing money unless they have the right inside knowledge. It is still a rather obscure sport without much betting activity outside of Japan, probably for this very reason.

Insanerman

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Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

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I never really considered betting on sumo wresting as I know that those fighters work for organizations or Mafias which is apparently common in Japan and therefore it can possibly be rigged sometimes. I mean if even NBA can be rigged, how come that this sport cannot? Apparently, if you know the background of each fight or was onto knowing which organization the fighters were from, then you can or should consider it in your betting, but the profit remains a 50-50 odd. Nonetheless, if I were to be asked, I wouldn't really suggest other sumo watchers to bet if they wouldn't spend time knowing the person they will bet.

Smartprofit

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Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

It has been said that Sumo, the Japanese fighting sport is not as clean as it should be. Apparently, in the maximum cathegory - short of a premier league - there is tendency to let win those who need to win in order to remain in that cathegory. This was studied and mentioned later on a book called Freakconomics.

An article here-

Do you feel that knowing that a sport may be rigged you could actually turn it in your favour?

Yes, if there is a manipulation factor in the game, then theoretically an outside observer has the ability to reveal the essence of this manipulation and make a profit.

However, this requires a very clear understanding of who benefits from this manipulation. To do this, you need to be well versed in how sumo tournaments are held. Such analysis can be a very lucrative form of human endeavor.

The profit can be very significant. Insider information is a very valuable resource that can be freely transformed into cash.

bitzizzix

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Yes, after I researched the world of sumo in Japan, it is very dirty and full of scandals, starting from the involvement of the Japanese mafia yakuza, gambling, to who wins who loses can be arranged.
And with the many cases and scandals happening in the Japanese sumo world today, especially the case of losing win arrangements, now many members of Japanese society do not believe in the results of the current sumo championships in Japan.
Even though I never bet on a sumo match but this case will tarnish its reputation and will make people happier watching it than betting.

dothebeats

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If you have the insider information then perhaps you can turn this into a profit. But if not then it will still be very difficult to make something out of it since you have zero knowledge of what's happening in the background.

There are tons of leagues that have blatant throws and insider betting that have been discovered in recent times yet you won't even know whether or not these leagues are legit considering that the outcomes of matches are always smooth that it's as if nothing fishy happened.

If you're really interested on making money in betting sumo matches, make sure to get some friends on high places—preferably those close to the honchos of the league—and seek for their "help" in exchange of favors.

justdimin

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Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

Do you feel that knowing that a sport may be rigged you could actually turn it in your favour?

What I am going to say might offend some people, my apologies to anyone who might be hurt but I am just sharing my own perspective.

I gamble a lot on cricket and often times I feel like some of the leagues have a few matches rigged like the IPL where a certain team like Mumbai Indians would go down the table but everyone knows they will win the last 5-6 matches of their group stage to make it to the finals/semis and what I do is I analyze which team is more likely to win based on my theory "no team will get eliminated early neither any team will qualify early". In simple words, a team winning too much is likely to lose their next game.

So I would take advantage in such a way, this theory does work for me but I am not saying that I am 100% right all of the time. It just helps me take better decisions instead of random ones.

I am not saying IPL is rigged or anything like that. I am just putting my own perspective and how I gamble.

madnessteat

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Quote from: ?? on ??

~snip~

On the contrary, I don't recognise the kind of fights like wrestling or sumo. In my opinion, real fights should be spectacular because of the fierce rivalry between the fighters, not staged shows in which a weaker fighter can defeat a stronger one. I would never bet on sumo.

death69

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We can't benefit ourselves with these results. And because they are rigged, the information must be spreaded and noticed by the sportbooks and they will not let the odds being too attractive. Maybe in some occasions, we can transform the private information to our own advantage but it is unlikely to happen all the time

IMO, I have not interest in Sumo even though it is one of the most cultural sport on the planet

ReiMomo

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I guess, if you have connections with the people who control the rigging and handles the wrestlers well, that is the only option to have the rigging be in your favor. Besides that, I don’t think there are other options and all of them are gambling still.
Rigging already started in the 1950s, and as far as I can remember, it was horse racings that were fixed before. But these principles still can be applied today.

But someone rigging the game doesn’t mean that people can’t win, they can still win and they will win. But yes, if you don’t have connections it’s just all based on pure lucks. But that is how gambling works right?

YOSHIE

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Sumo player sport in japan is a sport specifically for adults, sumo game participants have a monthly income exceeding $ 25,000 per month, they are the most influential and respected people in Japan, it's for a game that is quite professional, you definitely know what kind of sumo game wins and loses, the opponent's feet just a little out of the arena is guaranteed to lose.

For that if you talk about the game sumo can be cheated, of course it is a secret for both opponents in the betting agreement, I do not want to say it could be cheating or otherwise maintain the reputation of winning.

Which I often find the words of the sumo bettor as below.

Quote

Win-lose data suggests “quid-pro-quo agreement: you let me win today, when I really need a win, and I'll let you win another time.”

Of course it was said with full consideration on the grounds that they both know it, you yourself understand the word above its purpose.

goinmerry

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Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

Do you feel that knowing that a sport may be rigged you could actually turn it in your favour?

How can we know in the first place that the game will be rigged? Bets are placed prior to the game. No advantage to us average gamblers.

Back on the topic about sumo, it's been a talk for a long time that there are irregularities in sumo. We can say that there are rigged games but as per the rumor it was for the benefit for both parties if you know what I mean.

7788bitcoin

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Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

Do you feel that knowing that a sport may be rigged you could actually turn it in your favour?

In my opinion most of the sports taking place in Japan will be rigged as i have heard that most of the gambling is controlled by the underworld and i have heard multiple interviews from athletes that how they were approached by these people when they were competing in Japan. I have not wagged a bet in Sumo as i have not seen any gambling sites allowing these bets.
If you know any sites that accepts sumo gambling i would like to know.

iTradeChips

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Quote from: acener on May 12, 2021, 07:44:01 AM

You could only make profit from rigged sports by luck or knowing who would actually win before the match even started.
But I do feel that more sports are actually rigged it is just hard to see.
Who knows maybe the small errors or mistakes that they do in sports are actually their way of throwing it but I could also be wrong after all we are just humans which tends to have some error or mistakes.

In the case of the Sumo wrestlers, it would be obvious if someone played half-heartedly and lost, especially in a contact sport, fans will be able to spot differences in the performance of the player who deliberately lost the game. For team matches, even one player can spell the difference for a team winning or losing, and the rest won't even know that a deal was made. If it is an error in performance and not a deliberate cheat, then we are all good at that since the issue is player performance not cheating the game.

acener

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You could only make profit from rigged sports by luck or knowing who would actually win before the match even started.
But I do feel that more sports are actually rigged it is just hard to see.
Who knows maybe the small errors or mistakes that they do in sports are actually their way of throwing it but I could also be wrong after all we are just humans which tends to have some error or mistakes.

Fundamentals Of

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Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2021, 05:33:35 PM

Do you feel that knowing that a sport may be rigged you could actually turn it in your favour?

Yes, but only if you know who's going to be declared the winner. Most of the time, these rigged matches are only agreed within a very small circle. Seldom do we see them leaked. Those which are spreading around claiming to have an inside reliable informant are 99% scam.

I always thought that the sumo sports is considered almost sacred in Japan that it is being practiced with all honesty. If this news is true then it is already losing its preserved culturally revered value.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: magneto on May 12, 2021, 06:04:54 AM

That would just be completely stupid.

I actually remember reading freakonomics and Sumo being rigged as one of the subject matters that came up. But what makes you think that you are the one with the secret to betting in a rigged market?

The fact that a select few have insider information into the outcome of matches already mean that you are playing the game at a disadvantage - odds on the correct outcome are going to be artificially reduced given the knowledge that certain people have of the outcome. That significantly reduces your EV and your likelihood of winning in the long run.

It could be significant at mutual sportsbooks, but I'm not sure odds drastically change on regular sportsbooks for rigged games. Usually they keep their odds near the implied probability they already evaluated themselves and if they see unusual or unexpected betting behaviors they suspend or close the bets.

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