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Topic: [SURVEY] Who thinks the Lemmings should also be removed as Merit Sources? - page 3. (Read 1074 times)

legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
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The DT1 members who have requested to be removed from DT1 are indeed excluded Q.E.D.

I know you love redefining commonly used / common sense words and phrases but no, they are not excluded in how this is understood by most users (~ in the trust list). They are merely removed from consideration for DT1. Most (if not all) remain in DT2, which also confirms that they are not excluded.

Interesting response.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
The DT1 members who have requested to be removed from DT1 are indeed excluded Q.E.D.

I know you love redefining commonly used / common sense words and phrases but no, they are not excluded in how this is understood by most users (~ in the trust list). They are merely removed from consideration for DT1. Most (if not all) remain in DT2, which also confirms that they are not excluded.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
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Thanks for stopping by.

The poll would make more sense if it was about those who are excluded from DT but that's not what the OP is after for obvious reasons.

The DT1 members who have requested to be removed from DT1 are indeed excluded Q.E.D.

Feel free to expand on your vague comments and don't forget to vote in the survey.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
And I believe a user who isn't trusted enough to be on DT1 should be trusted with something as important as Merit source position.

If the person requested to be removed from DT1 then more than likely they were trusted enough to be in DT1 to begin with.

The poll would make more sense if it was about those who are excluded from DT but that's not what the OP is after for obvious reasons.
legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 7005
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These are two sensitive positions that I would classify as "volunteer" because there is no monetary compensation.
I'd argue that only one of those things is a position--the merit source "job".  DT members aren't expected to do anything whatsoever, aside from continuing to leave accurate feedback and basically being honest in their dealings on and off the forum (wasn't there a DT member who was removed because he was sent to jail for credit card fraud?  I can't remember his name, but it was a couple of years ago).  But if you're picked to be a merit source, it's expected that you're going to actively distribute merits, be fair, and not abuse or misuse the system.  If you don't give out any merits, I'm pretty sure Theymos would remove you--therefore, unlike being a DT member, you can't just do nothing.

And I believe a user who isn't trusted enough to be on DT1 should be trusted with something as important as Merit source position.
I don't agree with that at all.  There are plenty of trustworthy members who aren't on DT, and there were even more before Theymos changed DT to a rotating system.  Aside from that, someone just has to demonstrate that they have an interest in keeping the merit system running smoothly and can show they have a good eye for quality posts.  There's no need whatsoever for a potential merit source to be on DT.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
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...

Your post is redundant as you quote me in saying:

I voted Yes! Looks like i'm the only one on a different page.

I appreciate the vote!  It looks like you and I are not the only ones who think the two rankings are indeed intertwined.  Merit Sources are in fact laying the foundations for those who want to be DT1 by giving them the merits they require to be DT1 in a portion of 250/10 split merits.




Vote now!

Have your say!
staff
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1610
The Naija & BSFL Sherrif 📛
I voted Yes! Looks like i'm the only one on a different page.

These are two sensitive positions that I would classify as "volunteer" because there is no monetary compensation. And I believe a user who isn't trusted enough to be on DT1 should be trusted with something as important as Merit source position. A user who lacks good judgment when providing feedback may also lack good judgment when dealing with merits.

Someone who has the ability to manipulate his DT position should not be given/allowed to remain as a merit source.

A biased person will always be biased.People don't change power only brings out the true color of everyone..
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1089
I feel that to be appointed a merit source one of the stipulations should be that you are at the very least a DT1 member.  So, it would stand to reason that if you request to be removed as a DT1 member, then you are in effect relinquishing your right to have the roll of merit source assigned to you.
If this is a criteria for Theymos to select merit sources, then you would have been correct when you say if a member stops being DT1 they should also relinquish their merit source position, but i have read the thread on the requirement if a member wants to be a merit source and theymos didn't stipulate that you must be on DT1 rank to be a merit source, so other than those that said Theymos sent them a personal message to be a source of merit, the requirements for those applying is:
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1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully

If Theymos agrees that in his hidden criteria to be appointed merit source you should be on DT1, then i think many people will agree with you, myself too. In my opinion the only reason why a merit source should be removed is if they are hoarding merits for a long period of time.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1775
I saw a drama in Reputation about DT, I took an example from the topic @yahoo62278, there I can draw one conclusion, indeed what @yahoo62278 said is true and also I saw other members complaining about DT.

In my opinion, they don't blame and don't ask for the two SURVEYS below to be removed.
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• Yes, removed if they request permanent removal of DT1 ranking
• No - the merit sources should stay as is.

They're just tired of drama, all they want is:
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something needs to change.

Myself included, also suggesting the above, changes, I don't think the removal of DT and Source merit is victimized in all the drama.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
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... Users might choose to be vote out of DT or be removed as a merit source ...

I count only two or three who've gone down the path of actually requesting to be removed from DT1 while around four or five (if I'm reading BPIP correctly) have taken the soft approach of removing their DT trust lists - for the time being - effectively removing themselves, but not actually being removed point blank from the system.




Do the police hand out degrees?

Perhaps if they did we'd have less fatalities on the roads.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1139
As other users have stated, there is no correlation between a merit source and a DT position. They are both distinct and functions independently of each other and as such, it should be exclusive to what actions or inactions that could result from the stands of either.

Users might choose to be vote out of DT or be removed as a merit source whol they uphold the other. It's entirely an idea of choice and if we are to be true to ourselves, having to choose is a critical part of cryptocurrency and being able to express it makes us even more stronger.
Them getting to choose where they could perform best is a good for the forum and having that influenced by an exclusively distinct function doesn't make a lot of sense.
copper member
Activity: 2856
Merit: 3071
https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory
I feel that to be appointed a merit source one of the stipulations should be that you are at the very least a DT1 member. So, it would stand to reason that if you request to be removed as a DT1 member, then you are in effect relinquishing your right to have the roll of merit source assigned to you.
Do the police hand out degrees?

It took a lot of years for theymos to come up with the trust system we have now (and at least 3 s systems have been implemented already, 2 being trashed).

A merit source is there to find posts that contribute effectively to the forum and actively read and take part in a large amount of discussion. A trusted member has built trust with other users (in most cases) which is an achievement but may come to the forum with different interests than that of a merit source.

I would be keen to read @theymos' thoughts on this (and the overarching DT1 "issue" that is occurring in some quarters).

Theymos' idea of the merit system is similar to that of the report to moderator system (I say that because it's easier to find the report to moderator quote): "Do not worry about your accuracy too much; one accurate report is worth many inaccurate reports." they had a similar rhetoric for the merit system when that was first out too.

legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
Voting no. Similar to what I have said in the past. Trust should have nothing to do with feedback. So in this case DT status should have nothing to do with being a merit source.
There are probably some merit sources in some local boards that will never be off DT2 if they are even there because there is just not enough traction to get them to DT1

With that being said, I am off DT1 lottery at the moment and am not a merit source so if I was yes to both I might feel differently, but I don't think I would.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
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Archived for future reference: [1a]

I'll include this image since what merit source should do is find and give merit to post that are objectively good quality.



That's the best counter suggestion you can come up with?
hero member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 796
DT1 and merit source are completely different, a DT1 member have a power to join the vote of DT system which is about feedback relation while merit source have a power to give many merits that deserve to get merited which is about rank relation. I don't see any reason why DT1 and merit source should be combined, does all DT1 is a merit sources? AFAIK it's no (CMIIW)

If he's become DT2 and still become a good merit source, then he's good.

So my vote is no.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
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...

I'm sure most will understand that I'm not proposing a DT1 member automatically be anointed as a merit source and that role be taken away as a part of the monthly lottery.  (We'd have the reverse - more members clamouring to be a part of the DT1 lottery)

I feel that to be appointed a merit source one of the stipulations should be that you are at the very least a DT1 member.  So, it would stand to reason that if you request to be removed as a DT1 member, then you are in effect relinquishing your right to have the roll of merit source assigned to you.

I would be keen to read @theymos' thoughts on this (and the overarching DT1 "issue" that is occurring in some quarters).
copper member
Activity: 2856
Merit: 3071
https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory
If merit transactions are still loosely monitored by the forum (and the admin team when made aware), would there be a reason to do this?

If there's been a system change where being dt1 automatically makes you a merit source and I've missed that then that'd be different but I think the two accolades should stand on their own as much as possible.

Have people given reasons for withdrawing from dt1 (surely you could just not participate if you didn't want the drama)? If there were cases of this and it become more evident there were reasons that conflicted with the user being a merit source afterwards then it'd probably be a good idea (done individually) but merits might be recognised more than trust so a dt1 member and merit source i could see stepping down from both at the same time if they didn't want the pressure of the trust system.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
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...

Instead of personal remarks against myself, do you have any suggestions of substance?




I never said it was not a valid question. But the use of the word "Lemmings" in the title already shows a prejudiced view.

I find shock and awe gets a reaction where a less forthright comment gets no reactions.

It's rather about whether volunteer merit sources should have the freedom to opt out of another volunteer position in the forum

I'm not suggesting they have the option to opt out of being a Merit Source should they request they be removed from the DT1 lottery, I'm suggesting it (being a merit source) be taken away from them.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 2248
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I don't agree with OP, still, I find it a valid question. Not really worthy for a poll, still, a valid question.
I never said it was not a valid question. But the use of the word "Lemmings" in the title already shows a prejudiced view.

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No system is perfect, but if you believe the merit source make up is flawed and abused, you can make an argument against that directly.
I believe that's what my survey is attempting to do.
No, your survey is not arguing about a flaw in the merit system. It's rather about whether volunteer merit sources should have the freedom to opt out of another volunteer position in the forum
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
💲🏎️💨🚓
If you don't know who merit sources are, how do you know how "most" of them act?

As I explained, anecdotally we can deduce who the various merit sources are (some have identified themselves in various threads discussing meriting/merit source applications etc)...

From those we can deduce are Merit Sources, my conclusions are based on my observations of their behaviour.

Your views could of course be correct and there could be a sort of merit back scratching among sources, but I do not still get the correlation to default trust and a users decision to want to be excluded from it.

Well ... are there any DT2 merit sources that have *never* been DT1 ?  i.e. they have been voted up by a DT1 member/s rather than being appointed via the monthly lottery?

No system is perfect, but if you believe the merit source make up is flawed and abused, you can make an argument against that directly.

I believe that's what my survey is attempting to do.
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