Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1409. (Read 3050074 times)
anyone willing to help me out on teamveiwer to setup my miner having some trouble
It's about time they sorted out this burning capacitor issue and if they have already they need to break their mould and communicate with customers about it. IF they think Corsair PSUs are the cause then WTF are they doing not telling us so, then we can avoid damaging our long awaited rigs?
I'm sitting here with a corsair PSU, having never had the KnC recommendation they said they'd give us...with no idea if it was a waste of money or worse ..something that will damage my rig?
Communication is crap. When my rig turns up, do I risk the PSU I have, watch it fry and smile wryly and think to myself "Well they didn't tell us what the problem was, but at least I can have the peace of mind that 'Orama has clean jeans
" . Seriously.
I know it's not your job mate, but who's job is it to communicate these vital issues?
I'm sitting here with a corsair PSU, having never had the KnC recommendation they said they'd give us...with no idea if it was a waste of money or worse ..something that will damage my rig?
Communication is crap. When my rig turns up, do I risk the PSU I have, watch it fry and smile wryly and think to myself "Well they didn't tell us what the problem was, but at least I can have the peace of mind that 'Orama has clean jeans
" . Seriously. I know it's not your job mate, but who's job is it to communicate these vital issues?
I now have the miner plugged directly to the laptop, which has access to the wifi...alot less garble, but still see no ip for the miner...
Eric, if you are sitting behind a router you can Nmap your network and find all the machines responding on port 80... PM me if you need help with thisim on the knc page
no miner window....
every other tab works...?
im logged in on putty too, but dont kno commands...lol
I put in screen ~r and it says screen terminating...?
status page says cgminer is running... but when i click on miner tab...nada, blank browser page
I now have the miner plugged directly to the laptop, which has access to the wifi...alot less garble, but still see no ip for the miner...
Eric, if you are sitting behind a router you can Nmap your network and find all the machines responding on port 80... PM me if you need help with this 
This from Anotherhost.
Half-true, we use hx850s, but as of yet we still don't know what causes it and haven't heard any convincing explanation from knc. Something causes the miners to shutdown, and on power on they burn. If it's psu related I don't know. There has been 5 cases reported on bitcointalk (including two from us), but I don't know what psu the others were running. I believe that if you disconnect the four modules before powering up the devices the burn issue will be mitigated as the beaglebone board has survive in every burn case yet. If we run into the issue again we will document it by video for knc.
Best Regards,
Elon Bjorin
Quote
Is this true??
With respect to the capacitors, an investigation has been undertaken with Anotherhost.se, as they have suffered the issue with all their boards. It appears that a reasonable solution has been reached in that all the boards this has occurred to seem to have been used alongside the exact same PSU; The Corsair HX850. It’s been tested in the workshop here, with these PSUs and the exact same problem occurred. So if you have this PSU (Corsair HX850 – pictured below), it’s advised not to use it. Basically there is an issue with excessive current being applied, after the PU cuts out and the device is turned back on, causing the cap to pop.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3314134
With respect to the capacitors, an investigation has been undertaken with Anotherhost.se, as they have suffered the issue with all their boards. It appears that a reasonable solution has been reached in that all the boards this has occurred to seem to have been used alongside the exact same PSU; The Corsair HX850. It’s been tested in the workshop here, with these PSUs and the exact same problem occurred. So if you have this PSU (Corsair HX850 – pictured below), it’s advised not to use it. Basically there is an issue with excessive current being applied, after the PU cuts out and the device is turned back on, causing the cap to pop.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3314134
Half-true, we use hx850s, but as of yet we still don't know what causes it and haven't heard any convincing explanation from knc. Something causes the miners to shutdown, and on power on they burn. If it's psu related I don't know. There has been 5 cases reported on bitcointalk (including two from us), but I don't know what psu the others were running. I believe that if you disconnect the four modules before powering up the devices the burn issue will be mitigated as the beaglebone board has survive in every burn case yet. If we run into the issue again we will document it by video for knc.
Best Regards,
Elon Bjorin
woke up and it just connected easy, now new problem...
no miner page!
i can ssl in i think... how to show the screen tho....is it "screen ~r" or something like that?
no miner page!
i can ssl in i think... how to show the screen tho....is it "screen ~r" or something like that?
As such Mota, I won’t be promising anything on behalf of anyone, and I’m yet to receive my own device yet. In all fairness I don’t think you’re entitled to anything, you haven’t funded a swanky lifestyle, you funded the non-recurring engineering for an exciting project you have chosen to be part of. Fact is part of the reason they were able to demonstrate a working device so promptly based around a chip with minimal post fab refinement so it can be in your hands asap, is that there will inevitable be some refinement required. What they’ve achieved so far is incredible. This post refinement period is typically 12-18 months, not 24 hours. We all knew margins exist to ensure these devices can be in your hands asap, the 8 DCDC -> 4 DCDC boards is evidence of that. The additional voltage regulators were a now unnecessary overcompensation, and turning off 4 of the modules as you have observed means far less wattage consumed.
Ah, I did not know that you were not officially hired yet/as a spokesperson, sorry.
Alas, everything you mentioned above is simply not relevant. This was not a crowdfunded/kickstartet project.
While it is true that it was an extraordinary example of what can be done in a short amount of time this is still a business to business deal, and as such I - as a company - am entitled to compensation if the other party did not deliver as stated.
Now, as I said before, I had absolutely no problem at all to wait 1 week for my unit, but now its pretty much 2 weeks, since I did not get my shipping notice today. And all that while customer support lied right into my ears stating that both my orders should be here by now (that was last week). I also do NOT like getting standardised BS as an answer per email instead of an honest apology for the delay and an offer that compensates me adequately for my lost time with said orders.
And while I also appreciate the constant tweaks and hardware changes on those miners (and I think it is incedible) it still does not change the facts that the units should be here right now and hashing for more than 7! days. It also does not change the fact that it is not my/the other buyers problem that there were problems with the production line.
I personally think a grace period of 1 week was acceptable for anything, even if they had only 400/350 gh when delivered, I would still have gotten more btc out of them as I can now.
I would like to quote the first statement one sees when entering the products page:
" When mining Bitcoins time to deployment is everything within the global Bitcoin market. "!
That pretty much said it all. As far as I can see they failed on the most important part - getting those units to where they belong in time.
I would also be perfectly fine if I would have gotten both my second day and my October order this week, but alas, no chance to that now.
It's pretty easy, with that kind of lack in customer service/communication I will not buy from them anymore, as sad as that may be. (think about it that way - would you buy festival tickets from a company who delivered the last tickets while half of the festival was over already and you could not get an answer if/ when your ticket was sent or if they would compensate you for lost time? )
I'm guessing that voltage control suffers near zero current.
Yes, at zero current, voltage is zero. Happens when you turn the switch off. Otherwise, the PSU itself draws enough current to keep the constant voltage regulation circuitry regulating a constant voltage.
I plan to power thru a 6 outlet strip having an off/on switch. When I want the miner off it's that switch that gets put off. The off/on power supply switches might be nice but the way those blown caps are appearing, I'm not going to use a power supply off/on switch.
As such Mota, I won’t be promising anything on behalf of anyone, and I’m yet to receive my own device yet. In all fairness I don’t think you’re entitled to anything, you haven’t funded a swanky lifestyle, you funded the non-recurring engineering for an exciting project you have chosen to be part of. Fact is part of the reason they were able to demonstrate a working device so promptly based around a chip with minimal post fab refinement so it can be in your hands asap, is that there will inevitable be some refinement required. What they’ve achieved so far is incredible. This post refinement period is typically 12-18 months, not 24 hours. We all knew margins exist to ensure these devices can be in your hands asap, the 8 DCDC -> 4 DCDC boards is evidence of that. The additional voltage regulators were a now unnecessary overcompensation, and turning off 4 of the modules as you have observed means far less wattage consumed.
Ah, I did not know that you were not officially hired yet/ a spokesperson, sorry.
Alas, everything you mentioned above is simply not relevant. This was not a crowdfunded/kickstartet project.
While it is true that it was an extraordinary example of what can be done in a short amount of time this is still a business to business deal, and as such I - as a company - am entitled to compensation if the other party did not deliver as stated.
Now, as I said before, I had absolutely no problem at all to wait 1 week for my unit, but now its pretty much 2 weeks, since I did not get my shipping notice today. And all that while customer support lied right into my ears stating that both my orders should be here by now (that was last week). I also do NOT like getting standardised BS as an answer per email instead of an honest apology for the delay and an offer that compensates me adequately for my lost time with said orders.
And while I also appreciate the constant tweaks and hardware changes on those miners (and I think it is incedible) it still does not change the facts that the units should be here right now and hashing for more than 7! days. It also does not change the fact that it is not my/the other buyers problem that there were problems with the production line.
I personally think a grace period of 1 week was acceptable for anything, even if they had only 400/350 gh when delivered, I would still have gotten more btc out of them as I can now.
I would like to quote the first statement one sees when entering the products page:
" When mining Bitcoins time to deployment is everything within the global Bitcoin market. "!
That pretty much said it all. As far as I can see they failed on the most important part - getting those units to where they belong in time.
I would also be perfectly fine if I would have gotten both my second day and my October order this week, but alas, no chance to that now.
It's pretty easy, with that kind of lack in customer service/communication I will not buy from them anymore, as sad as that may be. (think about it that way - would you buy festival tickets from a company who delivered the last tickets while half of the festival was over already and you could not get an answer if/ when your ticket was sent or if they would compensate you for lost time? )
So you feel KnC's business model is opposed to their customers but are not against it.
Think about it; their incentive is (pre)selling as much as possible for as much as possible. Selling more means increasing network hashrate, screwing their previous customers, particularly the ones that havent received their goods yet (you ordered BFL, you know what I mean). They cant even really control the speed of this, since whatever they dont sell, KnC's competitors would sell, and then some. Thats just the nature of the beast, not something I blame KnC for. Add to that the fact that asics cost next to nothing to produce, so the price will just drop proportionally to difficulty for a long long time, and you can easily predict what will happen. Ever cheaper asics, ever increasing hashrate (at least until we get somewhere near marginal costs) and miners crying their tears out. Its gonna keep happening for quite some time.
IN theory KnC (or anyone else) could have priced their products not according to their perceived value, but according to their costs, from the start, spreading their NRE over far greater volumes from the start. But then you are asking a for profit company to forgo enormous profits, taking the risk of not recovering the NRE and on top of that, demand would have been so astronomical that they could never have delivered anyway.
Bitcoin asics are a weird market, I dont blame anyone for the dynamics of it, there never was a solution for this other than profit (and risk) sharing arrangements with the vendors, asicminer style.
ANyway, if you want to continue this discussion, we should do it in another thread.
I'm guessing that voltage control suffers near zero current.
Yes, at zero current, voltage is zero - from Ohm's law E = I/R. Happens when you turn the switch off. Otherwise, the PSU itself draws enough current to keep the constant voltage regulation circuitry regulating a constant voltage.
(..) Fact is part of the reason they were able to demonstrate a working device so promptly based around a chip with minimal post fab refinement so it can be in your hands asap, is that there will inevitable be some refinement required. What they’ve achieved so far is incredible. This post refinement period is typically 12-18 months, not 24 hours. We all knew margins exist to ensure these devices can be in your hands asap, the 8 DCDC -> 4 DCDC boards is evidence of that. The additional voltage regulators were a now unnecessary overcompensation, and turning off 4 of the modules as you have observed means far less wattage consumed.
(..)
(..)
Great achievement - Cograts :-) Well done Bitcoinorama and Knc team!
@Orama
Do you know why they won't ship the rest of our miners while they work out the firmware?
2nd request.Do you know why they won't ship the rest of our miners while they work out the firmware?
No, didn't think they had stopped, as per what I previously wrote; I'm no where near the manu facility anymore, i'm in Stockholm flipping a coin as to whether I sort out this accommodation mess, or head back to the UK and sort myself out there.
It's only to the UK, I get to sort out more than clothes obv. but clothes are def a limiting factor when you packed for 3-4 days. An E111 card would also be of use, maybe actually telling my friends and parents in person what i'm doing might be considerate as well, seeing as I was like; "checking out Sweden again, back in a few days", or words to that effect. General admin with other bits I was working on, loose ends that need tying up, etc.
orama,
thx for update!
i got one corsair 1050 hx running.
is that also a problem or just the 850???
Same question but substitute Corsair AX860.
Look there's no science behind what i'm relaying as i'm not first hand dealing with any of the cap issues. And i've probably not relayed the exact broke English/Swedish version I was told by one of the engineers present. But for sure the fact is every blown cap that has been set back via RMA has been using a Corsair HX850 to power it; and it's the one consistent link, and Anotherhost.se unfortunately were running all their hosted boards with that power supply and have had to switch.
@Orama
Do you know why they won't ship the rest of our miners while they work out the firmware?
2nd request.Do you know why they won't ship the rest of our miners while they work out the firmware?
No, didn't think they had stopped, as per what I previously wrote; I'm no where near the manu facility anymore, i'm in Stockholm flipping a coin as to whether I sort out this accommodation mess, or head back to the UK and sort myself out there.
This whole 'blame the power supply' story sounds pretty suspect to me. The power supply can't 'force' current into a board... There is clearly a board design problem here, and it looks to me to be highly unlikely that any specific known-to-be-fully-standards-compliant power supply would be more likely to cause it, other than simply being capable of providing higher instantaneous current - which is clearly not a flaw in a power supply.
I imagine this will turn out to be something that happens when you do something like turning the power on and off at exactly the wrong cadence, or something like that. Somebody probably left a necessary diode out of the design.
Correct, and capacitors can't be damaged by having current applied "before they've discharged their load", nor could a PSU force current through one. Capacitors would be damaged by excessive voltage over their rated dielectric rating, and PSUs are designed to keep voltage constant through their rated current capacity.
There's a great deal of bad/incorrect information being passed around here.
I'm guessing that voltage control suffers near zero current.
orama,
thx for update!
i got one corsair 1050 hx running.
is that also a problem or just the 850???
Same question but substitute Corsair AX860.
No, didn't think they had stopped, as per what I previously wrote; I'm no where near the manu facility anymore, i'm in Stockholm flipping a coin as to whether I sort out this accommodation mess, or head back to the UK and sort myself out there.
you can't find a place with some Swedish co-eds looking for a roomie?? try harder!
Dude it's b/c of the Swedish coed's there are no rooms, everyone coming back to uni this past month and undersupply of student residence means Stockholm has even more of an accommodation issue than it's notoriously known for.
Trust me i'm eager to share a place with a cute Swedish girl with a diligent study habit for the sake of the community!
I'll start this with a disclaimer. I know shit about Sweden.
But I do know University towns. I'd go to the university student union and check the bulletin boards. There are usually a bunch of places that never see the papers or craigslist or any of that, and they are often cheap.
In Reno and Boise, that was about the fastest way to find a place. When I moved to Boise in '90, there wasn't a place to be had on any of the "official" channels. I found a place in two hours through the above method.
Hope it helps.
Maybe, but on the otherhand I have clothing at home. Warm, waterproof clothing, and more than three days of it, including more than one pair of jeans, and shoes...
EDITE: Faetos, cheers bro, appreciated!
ORama, I plan on sending you some coins as soon as I my gear is in hosting. I appreciate your updates. Right now I'm air hashing, of which we have plenty of that in the "hot" variety here in Texas.
No, didn't think they had stopped, as per what I previously wrote; I'm no where near the manu facility anymore, i'm in Stockholm flipping a coin as to whether I sort out this accommodation mess, or head back to the UK and sort myself out there.
you can't find a place with some Swedish co-eds looking for a roomie?? try harder!
Dude it's b/c of the Swedish coed's there are no rooms, everyone coming back to uni this past month and undersupply of student residence means Stockholm has even more of an accommodation issue than it's notoriously known for.
Trust me i'm eager to share a place with a cute Swedish girl with a diligent study habit for the sake of the community!
I'll start this with a disclaimer. I know shit about Sweden.
But I do know University towns. I'd go to the university student union and check the bulletin boards. There are usually a bunch of places that never see the papers or craigslist or any of that, and they are often cheap.
In Reno and Boise, that was about the fastest way to find a place. When I moved to Boise in '90, there wasn't a place to be had on any of the "official" channels. I found a place in two hours through the above method.
Hope it helps.
Jump to: