Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 25. (Read 3049511 times)

Ha ha ha haaha haa haa. Too fucking funny.

So their vulture investors finally decided to pull the plug and get back as much as they possibly can?

Almost a year to the day since I suggested their VC's flush them out of existence, I guess it took them that long to catch up reading this thread  



Or maybe one of them sat in during the court proceedings and realised they had invested in a bunch of criminals.

That makes me wonder a bit... strange, strange. They should be able to still mine a profit with their 0,5J/GH Hardware. A 100TH/s makes about 3.5k$/m and 50kW would cost them about 2k2$/m in power @0.06$/kWh.

Overhead? Shouldn't be too many people required to run the mine. Rent? Couple of thousands a month, we are talking ~1k$ profit per 50kW per month so that's ~100k$ for a 5MW mine - are the shacks in northern Sweden really so expensive?

No point in switching off just now, can't they even afford to run it as long as after the halving? Look how the price develops?

And then there are other stories like the stabbing, them not behaving exactly generous with their customers, not investing in new chips obviously, not selling hardware for reasons beyond me etc.

http://swedishstartupspace.com/2016/05/27/knc-miner-declares-bankruptcy-chinese-competition-too-tough/


...

Yeah my reason for not getting in the class action was the fact that there "was" such a loophole for businesses in Sweden not being covered by EU consumer protection....I and
others figured the Swedes had a reason to get around that loophole with their laws...likely it helps to sell all sorts of business products with out that pesky EU consumer protection involvement..thus it turned out how I dreaded it would..the Swedish courts were not gonna toss out the 'precedent' of this ..that they obviously will not toss out such a legal tool  to help a bunch of consumers of asic miners...the case was dead from the get go....they had 'no' chance whatsoever...it was a 'rigged' trial but hey their lawyers got paid in full up front..probably the first clue to run away from this class action.....I guess KNC being so confident they could do this was more fact
then fiction in they always said anyone who made any purchases from them  were a 'business' because we bought their products.we declared ourselves as such
...again they got that whole 'evil' thing down pat knc does


This was 11 guys paying 90 in that court case below....man ...

http://www.coindesk.com/swedish-court-rules-against-kncminer-mining-hardware-customers/

There is still the last I think or 3rd court case with the 100 plus miners who paid 1.5k each (non-refundable) to heir lawyers and god knows what $$$ to KNC if they lose .....if 11 guys
are paying 93k ..they could be so royally screwed.....all had to sign a notarized letter agreeing to terms ..and those terms stated damages to knc if they lost....man that would
suck....

anyway others with more info or in the 100 folk class action chime in here

The funny part is they awarded KNC damages lol, people are suing becase they LOST money how the FK are they suppsoed to PAY MORE money what a joke

Fighting the bureaucracy in Stockholm is a loose/loose situation.
The little-guy only win in movies.

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order. If not = no order.
Easy as that, everbody does it this way. Totally non-understandable court decision in my eyes.

And a further argument for gpu mining an anonymous  coin on a pc.

Looks to me that a sane person will think Gpu mining offers real protection when mining  and asics do not.

Hmmm  is this another point against BTC and for ETH?

All in all gotta say I agree with Searing. Here in the US considering that the IRS wants their share of our BTC income it really is the catch 22: Report the income and pay their tax each year as part of personal income (as I do) or setup a small business and file with the IRS that way. Good part of going 2nd way is then equipment costs are a write off but then you are most definitely not a 'Consumer" anymore.

Grant you, at the time these lawsuits started BTC was still a pretty gray area as far as taxes and status as 'money' but even then writing was on the wall -- BTC and other crypto-currencies are money and therefore taxable anytime there are gains. By extension of that, if you buy a miner to make money that means you are a business whether or not you are legally registered as one. The lawyers hired should have seen this ruling as a strong possibility.

But I mean really.....in Sweden (or hell maybe everywhere) you can promote your miners and state in interviews (that I remember seeing) saying you will sell your 'miners' to ANYONE and they can be run at home etc etc....BUT as soon as you buy it from KNC your are a BUSINESS because KNC says you are a BUSINESS ...thus under Swedish law they can automatically make you not protected under consumer protection laws.

Man that is a 'neat trick' whatever you sell you say the person buying is a 'business' and you never have any constraints on anything you sell 'no matter how lame' because you as the Seller have deemed them a 'Business'

Talk about a 'Catch 22' ..IF I want the product and I am not a business....and state I am not a business and purchase the item..I then am 'magically' a business and have no consumer protection......all to the companies benifit and no protection to the consumer...with KNC ALWAYS no matter what the circumstances ...automatically 'upgrading your purchase' to a business....pretty slick

sheesh....

With all I'm learning about 'consumer protection' in Sweden and the USA (In the USA for example General motors hit ignition problems on vehicles for 10 years plus that caused over 100 deaths...they paid a 1 Billion dollar fine I think it was and no one was held accountable..no jail for anything for anyone)  ...anyway if this is what 'consumer protection' has come to on me buying anything from a toaster to a car..I am afraid to even LOOK AT what the Insurance I have really covers for loss and/or Medical Insurance for the same...now we are talking real money...hell it is probably much worse ...with that kinda real money ..it could keep me up for weeks ....likely just as bad.

I swear stuff likes this makes me want to take a vow and dump modern society and technology and  'Just Go Amish" ....except for that whole work from dusk till dawn thing behind a mule...I'd do so *hmmm........hot Amish girls....er no must resist......1 hr with girl 12 hours with plow.....Ack!*

As I posted in the other KNC thread, to me it seems the key point is that people who bought miners directly 'make income' from the machines vs crafters or hobbyists using a machine or tool to make something and then keep it or give away at no cost to friends,family, etc. In other words, there is no direct financial gain by crafters/hobbyists using the machine

Making money be it either by selling your products made from using a machine or tool or in this case, a machine directly generating income makes the buyers a business vs a consumer. The fact that a miner generally runs 24x7x365 doing what it does (generating income) clinches it.

Now if the suit(s) had been based on simple failure to fulfill the terms of a sales contract or other breach of Contract I think the Courts wold have looked at it differently.

Thank you Sweden for your retard laws. Thank you EU for your retard laws too!

wow, $93000 in legal fees awarded to KNC, that's about $8500 each plus $1500 to file. yikes, they doubled their loss. The ruling makes it sound like an open & shut case under Swedish law. I'd be faulting the lawyers for filing a frivolous lawsuit, instead of giving sound legal advice.

Edit:
Some hope this seems to not be the large 100 folk class action, unless they are just going from biggest cases to smallest cases to establish precedent....so maybe some small hope?

Well it is official .......KNC HAS WON THE CLASS ACTION CASEq


here is the Coindesk article

http://www.coindesk.com/swedish-court-rules-against-kncminer-mining-hardware-customers/


As most of us figured. Swedish Law was not going to overturn precedent of anyone selling from Sweden to a Business.

ie there is a reason for that law imho and it was to get around the very very good EU Consumer Protection laws for consumers.


Evil wins again. (KNC the Mondor of the ASIC Universe)

Anyway really feel sorry for the folk that lost and have to not only eat the 1.5k usd per KNC product for there own legal team but from the above 90K usd more to KNC in the judgement.

edit:

Added another thread on this with a POLL. Will be interesting to see if anyone was in the class action from the poll on bitcointalk.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/knc-wins-class-action-against-miners-court-rules-all-a-business-thus-lost-1483331

qberty, can I buy a titan clone bridge from you?

Raspberry Pi B+ 512mb


edit: again (as far as I know) works with a Titan bridge or Titan Clone bridge (Qberty sells such on bitcointalk) that again any 4/6 port KNC Mercury/Saturn/Jupiter/Neptune board will work with a titan bridge or qberty titan clone bridge (0.20 btc last I heard) ... and the above Raspberry Pi B+ 512mb and an SD card (I use Sandisk 8gb Class 10's ...about 10 bucks on eBay for a pair of them) and there ya go

What model is the KNC Titan OEM rpi ?

New Pi's right? When the Pi blows it takes out the bridgeboard.

Switched over to my backup controller, Titan is back to hashing. Board has 3 ohms on the FPGA 3.3 volt power supply, indicating the fpga drivers are out. Interesting.

Yeah i've actually tried to power a Pi after it blows out a bridge but unfortunately it's not enough to pull through the entire controller. It really needs that molex for some reason. All of my bridges that blew, happened after they blew out all my Pi's first :/ Very not nice.

Son of a BEAR! My reference controller had the FPGA fail!

The screen was frozen at 42mh
The logs from the Pi were:
pi@raspberrypi ~ $
pi@raspberrypi ~ $
The system is going down for reboot NOW!(console) (Sat May  7 10:38:18 2016):

The unit now powers up no display with the flashing light. Meaning TPS is good, FPGA is bad.

Oh well, them's the breaks. However I now can see what causes a controller board to fail. Interesting. Physician heal thyself...