Well, we were discussing what to expect from KNC next month. My guess is a SP30 class machine. My comment was an attempt to address some skepticism. I agree, I don't think KNC will announce a 13TH Neptune next month.
Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 441. (Read 3050075 times)
You guys have been spoilt by the era of easy money in bitcoin mining and have lost the faith.
Time to turn it over to the next generation !
Time to turn it over to the next generation !
It was not that easy. You fucking kids have it all easy now with your fancy asics. In my day we used a CPU or GPU to mine BTC, and we liked it!
Meh, thats nuthin!
I'm still running mechanical miners.
My secret is tapping into bio engines for power.
I get about 1 Gh/s per gram of gerbil food/day.
It took a while to smooth out my system but once I designed power wheels that self adjusted for the pregnant gerbils, my farm stabilized.
My current/only issue is with health monitoring, they don't type too well.
I had initially thought it was an issue with toenails.
My experiment with abrasive wheel surface to mitigate toenail growth and improve communication was a disaster.
I almost did not notice the pink hue of the pool water in time.
Currently running 308th generation miner.
The ASIC folks are still on gen 2-3 BTW!
Ahhhhhh, the acrid smell of sucess!
as usual
YMMV
Looks like I just answered a question that was deleted …
The question was "Can they afford to sell it for $10K"
I replied: Probably, and give away a 2nd one in August to help their loyal customers stay profitable.
The question was "Can they afford to sell it for $10K"
I replied: Probably, and give away a 2nd one in August to help their loyal customers stay profitable.
If Knc on schedule to deliver Neptune end of June. and additional free Neptune after 2nd batch late July/early August those 2 Neptunes will roi about 6 btc or less.
I mistaken the 13TH question for the 5-6TH one.
Yes KNC can build the Neptune to 5-6TH But I dont think KNC or Spoon can sell a 13TH machine now for 10k which is what is needed at todays dificulty level to Roi.
Yes KNC can build the Neptune to 5-6TH But I dont think KNC or Spoon can sell a 13TH machine now for 10k which is what is needed at todays dificulty level to Roi.
Looks like I just answered a question that was deleted …
The question was "Can they afford to sell it for $10K"
I replied: Probably, and give away a 2nd one in August to help their loyal customers stay profitable.
The question was "Can they afford to sell it for $10K"
I replied: Probably, and give away a 2nd one in August to help their loyal customers stay profitable.
If SP can go from 192 Hammer chips in 40nm == 1.4TH (SP10) to 30 RockerBox chips in 28nm == 5.4 TH (SP30) just through a die shrink,
that is an increase in GH/chip of from 7.3GH to 180GH or a factor of ~ 24
Applying the same scaling from Jupiter to Neptune would give you a ~ 13Th machine so is 5-6TH so hard to imagine ?
that is an increase in GH/chip of from 7.3GH to 180GH or a factor of ~ 24
Applying the same scaling from Jupiter to Neptune would give you a ~ 13Th machine so is 5-6TH so hard to imagine ?
....
to all you sp30 pre order people, past performance is no reflection of future performance.
to all you sp30 pre order people, past performance is no reflection of future performance.
Lesson learned from the KnC experience and applied towards my SP30 pre-order!
its nice to see someone with a sp10 advert in their sig say that!
its interesting to see SP come out with semi instock sp10 units and definitely have enough chips paid and bought to build these machines, but with sp30 it buy now receive later.
surely they can fund the project like the did the first whats the catch? why take pre order s now based on quick past performance
Pre-orders are coming back, I hate to say it.
This is because when difficulty passes a certain point, lets say 15-20 Billion it will be harder for manufacturers to adjust technology and product pricing to match the increase in difficulty.
Having machines in stock, Buyers will balk at the prices and conclude it is better to buy the btc itself or get a "future" product promising higher hashrates.
Basically manufacturers/dealers dont want to get stuck with unwanted product.
I suspect sales are slow across the board already at many companies. Once we get past the recent 3-5 month glut from last years pre-orders I expect alot of companies to suffer or fold completely by end of year, as they simply cant compete with price or market products quick enough.
....
to all you sp30 pre order people, past performance is no reflection of future performance.
to all you sp30 pre order people, past performance is no reflection of future performance.
Lesson learned from the KnC experience and applied towards my SP30 pre-order!
its nice to see someone with a sp10 advert in their sig say that!
its interesting to see SP come out with semi instock sp10 units and definitely have enough chips paid and bought to build these machines, but with sp30 it buy now receive later.
surely they can fund the project like the did the first whats the catch? why take pre order s now based on quick past performance
LOL I don't think he means what you think he does, I'm pretty sure Roadstress has ordered a few SP30's on the group buy he organised.
If they can bump the Titan from 100 to 300, they can bump the Neptune from 3 to 5
Jupiter went from 350 to 550
If they can bump the Titan from 100 to 300, they can bump the Neptune from 3 to 5
With that in mind, it will be interesting to see what the actual hashrate of Neptune ends up being.
Almost certainly in the SP30 class.
Not a chance.
With that in mind, it will be interesting to see what the actual hashrate of Neptune ends up being.
Almost certainly in the SP30 class.
There is no long term in btc mining land. Usefullness of products are now 90 days or less. We are less than 60 days away from when manufacturers cant even make machines that are profitable to use minus electricity, mining will be a hobby by then.
^^ This ^^
I'm continually stunned when I read things like this (paraphrased for emphasis)... "Oh but KNC are the best! I may have to wait 3 more months for the same amount of THs at a higher price. But my machine will run for 10 years."
And when that machine does finally arrive, it won't even pay for the electricity it uses after the previous 8 or 9 difficulty jumps.
Well at least by then the weather will have started to cool down and you can use your Neptunes as supplemental heat while I struggle to keep my house below 85f during the summer months.
When people get their FREE Neptune in Sept and diff is 30 B it will ROI $500
Remember the FREE Neptune's for the B1 and B2 owners are going to be from the 3rd batch. And just like KNC has said from day one with all their Neptune batches.
"Minimum 3000GH/s of hashing speed that 3TH Over 5 times the speed of our first Jupiter release (we reserve the right to increase this as we get closer to shipment)"
There is no long term in btc mining land. Usefullness of products are now 90 days or less. We are less than 60 days away from when manufacturers cant even make machines that are profitable to use minus electricity, mining will be a hobby by then.
^^ This ^^
I'm continually stunned when I read things like this (paraphrased for emphasis)... "Oh but KNC are the best! I may have to wait 3 more months for the same amount of THs at a higher price. But my machine will run for 10 years."
And when that machine does finally arrive, it won't even pay for the electricity it uses after the previous 8 or 9 difficulty jumps.
Well at least by then the weather will have started to cool down and you can use your Neptunes as supplemental heat while I struggle to keep my house below 85f during the summer months.
When people get their FREE Neptune in Sept and diff is 30 B it will ROI $500
Remember the FREE Neptune's for the B1 and B2 owners are going to be from the 3rd batch. And just like KNC has said from day one with all their Neptune batches.
"Minimum 3000GH/s of hashing speed that 3TH Over 5 times the speed of our first Jupiter release (we reserve the right to increase this as we get closer to shipment)"
Big boys meaning vendors that treat customers like trash are suffering. Good. Karma kicking in early. However, companies that produce reliable goods and treat their customers like human beings are doing well. Hooray! Capitalism works!
I hope the big boys crash and burn.
So what has to happen for mining to remain profitable in 2015 ?
Much of the hash power is being consolidated more and more, that trend will continue as the big boys can still make a return when smaller operations can no longer continue.. That doesn't mean the hashrate will flatten or go down, rather continue to climb at 10-20% each diff jump as many of the larger miners continue to invest, time is money at that scale in a way the home miner can't fathom..
I'm sure the capital cost of miners for 'the big boys' is cheaper than those of us who buy retail, and by quite a bit. I am not so sure that their overall cost structure is that much better when you consider the cost of building, equipping and staffing data centers and all the other overheads they have. Sure, maybe less per TH than you or me, but not that much less.
So they are in pretty much the same position with respect to earning ROI as we are, and subject to the same market forces.
As a result, if mining is profitable for anyone, it will be profitable for us as well. And if bitcoin is to survive, mining must survive.
Ergo mining will remain profitable, probably as a result of increasing BTC prices.
All the 'big boys' are showin' signs of a cash squeeze. BA, Cointerra, KnC all seem to be getting worse with refunds. Companies are laying people off. Someone on the Cointerra forum even claims his refund check bounced
So what has to happen for mining to remain profitable in 2015 ?
Much of the hash power is being consolidated more and more, that trend will continue as the big boys can still make a return when smaller operations can no longer continue.. That doesn't mean the hashrate will flatten or go down, rather continue to climb at 10-20% each diff jump as many of the larger miners continue to invest, time is money at that scale in a way the home miner can't fathom..
I'm sure the capital cost of miners for 'the big boys' is cheaper than those of us who buy retail, and by quite a bit. I am not so sure that their overall cost structure is that much better when you consider the cost of building, equipping and staffing data centers and all the other overheads they have. Sure, maybe less per TH than you or me, but not that much less.
So they are in pretty much the same position with respect to earning ROI as we are, and subject to the same market forces.
As a result, if mining is profitable for anyone, it will be profitable for us as well. And if bitcoin is to survive, mining must survive.
Ergo mining will remain profitable, probably as a result of increasing BTC prices.
I am a quasi October hosting owner. just before the 28nm data centre came online, about 10 days before the media announcement my miners went offline. when they came back they spiked on guild around 700gh. at the time my home miners which were October batch were running 665gh max.
I almost thought knc were over clocking the hosted miners. many offline/online notifications later on my mobile app, I slept.
in the morning the miners were online but always with a much larger rate of fluctuations.
it's my thought, the hosting miners from Octobe, which knc are now shipping out, were actually given November boards(end feb) (700+gh) and these were ran on a load balance since the hashing centre opened, the fluctuations I experience d were nothing like my home miners when mining one pool, only a load balance/balance.
thing what you will, dig into my pm history and you will see my posting regarding spikes and delight at thoughts of them over clocking hosted miners post around 20th feb or something, maybe onward, but not long before the dat centre became public/media knowledge.
I almost thought knc were over clocking the hosted miners. many offline/online notifications later on my mobile app, I slept.
in the morning the miners were online but always with a much larger rate of fluctuations.
it's my thought, the hosting miners from Octobe, which knc are now shipping out, were actually given November boards(end feb) (700+gh) and these were ran on a load balance since the hashing centre opened, the fluctuations I experience d were nothing like my home miners when mining one pool, only a load balance/balance.
thing what you will, dig into my pm history and you will see my posting regarding spikes and delight at thoughts of them over clocking hosted miners post around 20th feb or something, maybe onward, but not long before the dat centre became public/media knowledge.
knc took funding for a 20nm project.
they figured out it was more beneficial to mine now with 28nm rather than later with 20nm.
they took the funding, delayed the project, built a massive hashing center, at max over 11% of found blocks one difficulty change.
they delayed the project enough.that most 20nm customers would refund as the cost was just not effective anymore, apart from for KnC, who the chip cost a fraction of the price.
they mined enough with the 28nm data center to pay all customers a refund who asked and keep their mining center alive.
the remainder of 28nm will be offloaded to make way for the large portion of 20nm they have bought back from customers.
to all you sp30 pre order people, past performance is no reflection of future performance.
they figured out it was more beneficial to mine now with 28nm rather than later with 20nm.
they took the funding, delayed the project, built a massive hashing center, at max over 11% of found blocks one difficulty change.
they delayed the project enough.that most 20nm customers would refund as the cost was just not effective anymore, apart from for KnC, who the chip cost a fraction of the price.
they mined enough with the 28nm data center to pay all customers a refund who asked and keep their mining center alive.
the remainder of 28nm will be offloaded to make way for the large portion of 20nm they have bought back from customers.
to all you sp30 pre order people, past performance is no reflection of future performance.
Pretty accurate description. Do you think that KnC will ever try to make a competitive standalone bitcoin miner or they pretty much conceded to spond and bitmain?
I thought that mini-Neptune could be competitive, but not at current prices, of course, more like $2500-2900 right now or much less later on.
Jump to: