Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 639. (Read 3050074 times)

I absolutely agree with you, which is why I said back in October how we were entering the last few months of it being reasonable for folks to mine at home.. as it was shifting toward centrally-hosted facilities due to power consumption, or to regions where power isn't an issue. The writing's been on the wall. No need to be facetious lol.

I love my KNC Mercury, I've had it since the first of Decembet, it's run non-stop, without so much as being powered down. Got it for half MSRP, so I loved it even more for that. If I can get any deals like that on equipment in the future, I'd love to get it.

That was the type of response I was hoping for. I don't mind adverse thoughts to my own, I just wish those thoughts be explained is all. I'd like to expound further on some points, but I think you and I can agree there isn't much more to throw on the table to debate.

I'll close my dribblings with;
I didn't miss the part of ROI ..I'm just saying I don't think an affordable service has anything to do with regard to speculative profits from said investment. Not saying it makes it a wise investment ..some block erupters were "affordable", but not necessarily profitable.

You and others have seen patterns in KnC's behaviors, and I can appreciate drawing conclusions based on the evidence at hand. However, I still hold that it still does not PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt those conclusions are to be taken as fact. I was originally asking for more objectivity to consider plausible alternative circumstances and for less bounding to highly damning accusations ..without fully verified facts of impossible to know conditions.

I understand as well that according to the math done in the thread, figures have come up to a 5.5Th as a best case scenario. However, that is also taking the understanding that all prior, known inputs are the same -that KnC won't change some factors based on previous activity (# of chips for example) Agreed -the primary limiting factor is power, but that remains a larger concern for US miners than other parts of the world. Doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't hit higher figures with larger available power.

I have no problem with the stance you, or Avenger take, to be clear. What I don't like is being so entirely staunch in one idea that any other ideas become impossible to consider, pouncing on anyone that proposes an opposing thought and taking every cheap and sometimes baseless pot shot you can (not saying you particularly).

I really do appreciate the response you've given me.

Yep, but others were pretty quick to draw some other conclusions and just as quick to shout the accusations here as "may as well be fact". My banter wasn't directed at you exclusively.

Avenger -you're mom just needs to stop buying such comfortable underwear.

There is in fact something such as madness of the crowds. Interesting you brought it up since Avenger, myself and a few others, were the minority amongst the noise of the mad crowds--until recently when, perhaps, the crowds began to have the veil pulled off of their face.

So I was enquiring about refunds made in btc...... I said I dont have a bank account.

2 minutes and a sip of coffee.. it's not that hard. Milk's questions were decent and required a similar response. Unlike many folks on this thread, he has demonstrated communication skills and seems to want to carry on conversation and pursue facts, routing out the mysteries.


I'm not for or against any OEM over another WRT analyzing the situation and sharing what I know or what my estimation is. See my position below.


If I'm wrong I'm wrong, if I'm right so be it. I don't take it personally. I've been right before, I've been wrong before. I've predicted difficulty hops 120 days out within 1% accuracy, and the last one I was off decently due to not keeping track of hidden hashpower. It happens. The key is to not take any of this personally and throw attacks out there.


I agree, KNC has been the best of the bunch so far. Their product performed much better than estimated, and their delivery time was only about a month off. I had full confidence because of this for the 2nd batch as well. WRT buying something from them again, once emerging negative patterns started popping out, I couldn't give them a full stamp of approval anymore, but would've been willing to go with them. They still were a good solution for others though, at the time.

However, since then, no physical product from them at this point in time would be a good purchase, UNLESS you're hedging on BTC value shooting up, which would also demand you simply hold. Thereagain, you could simply buy and hold without mining.

It's not a campaign to destroy KNC to discuss this.

After reading KNC's latest update I'm getting more and more of a "scammy vibe" from them. I've really held out hope that KNC will be a legit ASIC manufacturer but it seems more and more like they are succumbing to greed like Avalon did after their initial success.


First they refer to the launch date which they have so far refused to share other than it being in the first 6 months of this year. Technically EVERY future date is getting closer but that sentence will lead potential customers to believe the launch is "close" which is very different from "closer". Yes June 30 is getting closer but is not close but I'm sure many will misread that and place an order hoping for a March launch date.

Next they claim that because they are "still on track" they are "able to release more of the products". So now all of a sudden batch #2 was actually only the first half of batch #2? That was the plan all along but they needed to wait until they knew they were on track before taking more orders? Having just canceled my pre-order along with many others I think it's obvious that this is most likely in response to a flood of canceled orders, not because they are "still on track". Reeks of deception.

Finally they offer assurances of their Plan B which protects potentials customers in case they "are late". Again there has been no official launch date so technically they would not have to honor Plan B until July 1st but this is worded to work with their misleading "getting closer to launch date" statement to give people a false sense of security.  More promises based on extremely vague details making these promises essentially worthless.

As somebody with a VERY LONG Bitcoin position I personally am enjoying watching the declining price. The greed that the high price has inspired is making me sick. If the price really tanks I will really enjoy watching it screw up all of KNC's sketchy plans made at the expensive of the customers that made their business possible...

FFS how much energy did you put into that post.  Can I ask you this why do you spend most of your free time and energy to try and tarnish the KNC name nearly two months before they're due to ship.  KNC's actions will prove them yet again or maybe bury them.  Although your crusade and all that time spent will be forgotten.  Here you've made your point, then if you're correct you  can quote it in July and gloat.  IMHO KNC have so far proved them selfs to be the best option of a bad bunch.  That's why I put more than $50k on them.

Also, I mentioned Orama could be on vacation because he hasn't logged into his account here in over a week, or elsewhere.

Bulleted for the attention deficient:

-Yea, I suppose KnC has never revised their projected specs before have they?
-It can't be 6Th ..........because they said 3Th would be given in compensation ........before we know final specs of a Neptune. Reaching Avenger.
-Ok ..so you saw fool a few times and made up more assumptions. What else is new?
-Haha I can get my own hookers. Thanks though. Although, the drawing I made this year is especially seductive.

Why do you keep repeating April 1st? They, KNCMiner, said verbatim the 'drop dead date' for giving customers access to datacenter hashes would be if they don't make the Q2 timeframe. Not Q1.


I suggested you re-read the entire thread. I've been lurking since day 1 and keeping notes. Not just on KNC, but most of the claimed OEM's. Call it a hobby. Avenger, myself, a few others, all individually started noticing emerging patterns from KNC, and we all pretty much called the ball, and come to find out we were all pretty much on target. I don't need to provide any further foundation for what I'm saying. Heck, go back to November timeframe and read on, you'll see what we said was true. Or don't, it's not that big a deal for 1 person to be challenging proven individuals.


Did you miss the part of ROI? Sure they offer hash capability for a dollar amount. If that's your basis for saying they're not leaving you without options, then you have pretty low standards.


Their business model for sales is based on 3TH. That should be anyone's primary number for calculating return. Based on pages of math done throughout this thread, it's likely that you will be able to get 4.5 out of it without terrible effort, possibly 5.5 if you have the capability. The primary limitation is power.


KNC stipulated if it came to cloudhashing, it would be if they missed Q2 shipping, which means after Q2. It will then begin in order of batches. Did you guys miss the newsletter and emails?


Capable? Possibly. Probable? Not likely. Going off of how the Jupiters were engineered and deployed, they put a lot of squeeze room into the design mainly in case of failure of the design. They discussed this last summer. They under-rated on purpose, it was both a sales tactic and a safety net for engineering. This is why the November units couldn't overclock as much, because they came pre-squeezed. For Neptunes, they stated they would pre-squeeze them as well, up to nominal power limits WRT US outlets, which is where you get your 3TH figure.

Again, and I know this sounds as if you've heard it before.. this all comes from newsletters, email, and information throughout the thread...


They stipulated regardless of capability, each order would only be allotted the sales-figure-based hashrate of 3TH.


They have more than enough production capacity because they rent production capacity based on demand. They simply diverted it for their own needs instead of allowing customers to purchase it. As is their right.


...Which proves what we were saying earlier, it won't earn its cost back without tremendous luck from the luck fairy, because few households can support a single 6TH unit, and it's not likely their first-time-run 20nm architecture will achieve those speeds anyhow. Imagine a 4TH machine delivered in May.


Other situations do in fact exist, and it's not narrowminded if you think about it. They offered a product, people paid for it, they delivered. With exception to the modules (which, by law, they should provide), they're not bound to provide any other products or services. The NPS wasn't exactly part of their by-laws, it was just a statement of idealism. I hold them more accountable for the modules which everyone in 2013 is entitled to, as well as yourself--the Neptune batches 1 and 2 were sold with "Modular upgradability" as a bullet point.

Part of the reason they've been running their own datacenter for awhile now (since November), is likely due to their foreseeing the possibilities of everything which has since occured, including 1/3rd of their cash capital being refunded to customers. They needed something to return when they had to cut off refunds. They needed 66% of the cash for the product and their venture. This is why their 3rd Neptune batch didn't have refunds.

I'm not as narrowminded as you might  believe, and if you knew me and knew how often my estimations and predictions were within 1 deviation of accuracy, you might be more understanding as to why I'm suggesting you keep up with the thread and other news outlets. Most of your postulations or thoughts have all been answered.. by KNC for the most part, without our "views".

Thanks, Syke. I appreciate the explanation. However, if KnC can achieve even .75W/Gh, at 6Th, that is sub 5000 watts. Is .75W/Gh out of the realm of plausibility? I'm wondering, since it is widely know, that as BTC mining returns are inevitably becoming increasingly narrow, electrical efficiency takes a larger precedence. If Jupiter was a race to get the largest horse out of the gates the soonest, and Neptune is to get the most efficient horse possible, they may take more time refining Neptune than they did Jupiter. More board revisions; better efficiency. Could hoping for under .75W/Gh be a pipe dream?

Won't be, see above

Like I said, tl/dr. I just saw the word fool a few times and figured it was another knowitall post from someone who knewnothing.


P.S. Someone get WillMilk4Coin a hooker too. That picture of a woman he drew on his right hand isn't going to do it for him today.

Edit: Good news. matthewh3's aunt is doing a special offer today  

Confused thoughts? Haha ok;

-Without knowing what the FINAL specs are of Neptune (speed, efficiency, release date, compensatory cloudhashing details), how could one begin to say the only reason that KnC withheld Jupiters, was to fulfill their greedy desires? My example still stands

-if Neptune IS 6Th, they need to supply ~22Ph worth of safety net ..do you KNOW that they have the capacity to produce that AND still sell Jupiters? I admit it doesn't change they broke this all important Net Protection agreement.

We won't know final specs for months? Exactly my point, avenger. Thank you. So until then, we can only assume things then, yea?

I used "fools" twice in the wordy jaunt. Was twice too much? lol

He's too busy playing Minecraft at work to think of such things.

Yes, that's the biggest issue. The shrink from 28nm to 20nm will give roughly a 25% improvement. If they tried to do 6 TH/s, it will be because they are using many more chips, and it would be expensive, and the power draw would be in the 5,000+ watt range. That's simply not going to work.

Looking at the photo, confrontation on sidewalk in Japan, the MtGox owner doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who will do seppuku.

Unknown re Th/machine, but clearly, only 3th/s will be compensated through plan B-they already indicated this. The major sticking point is-when and for how long?

Uh huh. I'm not going to bother because your post is all mixed up. You say I'm ranting and raving, then you agree with what I say, then you seem to be suggesting I said something I didn't say, then you use the words "fools" a lot and then you say you are not advocating for knc, then you demand to know what FINAL specs will be when no one knows what that will be for months. It would take a week to respond to all that mixed up confused crap.

Maybe clarify your own thoughts first before you start challenging people. And my mom still wants her underwear back from you. At least stop wearing it to work you sick puppy, people are beginning to talk

IMO before plan B was announced I always thought that KNC would compensate any late delivery with extra hashrate.  Just like the final Jupiter speed was boosted by nearly 100% from their initial announcement.

I am not sure that they have the hash rate yet, but i think that they would have to provide for batch 1 customers on March15-April15. May would be too late to break even in $$. I assume that we will know more in a couple of weeks (or even faster if Neptune batch 2.5 would have difficulty selling). Losing money on transaction that suppose to make money (bitcoin mining) would mean that they will have no customers going forward-and this is a fact. I don't want to refund because nobody knows where bitcoin will be in 2weeks. No point of getting a refund, buying bitcoin and see it dipping to $400, which is entirely possible if MtGotcha crocks.