The Dukes of Moral Hazard
Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 635. (Read 3050074 times)
So, how many of you that did order a neptune had hopes of it going more than 3T? KnCletus said "if we are late we will simply give you a choice of converting to our online hosted hashing of 3TH from our facilities if you wish to" I know I did - was hoping for 5T, but realized it was all a pile of hooey.
I and at least one other person I know were hoping for something between 3 and 4 TH, 5 would've been even better, getting up to 4 would've been fine.
more chance of them mounting this on it than getting >3Th
So, how many of you that did order a neptune had hopes of it going more than 3T? KnCletus said "if we are late we will simply give you a choice of converting to our online hosted hashing of 3TH from our facilities if you wish to" I know I did - was hoping for 5T, but realized it was all a pile of hooey.
I and at least one other person I know were hoping for something between 3 and 4 TH, 5 would've been even better, getting up to 4 would've been fine.
Off topic.
I have just been robbed , just about all my Coins in my QT wallet have gone.
Status: 312 confirmations
Date: 16/02/2014 03:43
To: 1JJewUpXpBHNDWVqzkKk7kWa7pQzRGfzpG
Debit: -11.24 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0006 BTC
Net amount: -11.2406 BTC
Transaction ID: df776f8492caaee7004594f9e8b399342e24ce7febd8b79621ac7ded958b78ba
Question how can this Happen if my Wallet is Encrypted , With a very long password.
I have just been robbed , just about all my Coins in my QT wallet have gone.
Status: 312 confirmations
Date: 16/02/2014 03:43
To: 1JJewUpXpBHNDWVqzkKk7kWa7pQzRGfzpG
Debit: -11.24 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0006 BTC
Net amount: -11.2406 BTC
Transaction ID: df776f8492caaee7004594f9e8b399342e24ce7febd8b79621ac7ded958b78ba
Question how can this Happen if my Wallet is Encrypted , With a very long password.
It must have been a keylogger trojan. Look through some recent programs you installed. Is it on Windows or MAC? Whatever it is, they still have access to that PC...
So, how many of you that did order a neptune had hopes of it going more than 3T? KnCletus said "if we are late we will simply give you a choice of converting to our online hosted hashing of 3TH from our facilities if you wish to" I know I did - was hoping for 5T, but realized it was all a pile of hooey.
Comment moved to the thread you set up https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coins-stolen-from-my-qt-wallet-471769
QT
Which wallet you used ?
Off topic.
I have just been robbed , just about all my Coins in my QT wallet have gone.
Status: 312 confirmations
Date: 16/02/2014 03:43
To: 1JJewUpXpBHNDWVqzkKk7kWa7pQzRGfzpG
Debit: -11.24 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0006 BTC
Net amount: -11.2406 BTC
Transaction ID: df776f8492caaee7004594f9e8b399342e24ce7febd8b79621ac7ded958b78ba
Question how can this Happen if my Wallet is Encrypted , With a very long password.
I have just been robbed , just about all my Coins in my QT wallet have gone.
Status: 312 confirmations
Date: 16/02/2014 03:43
To: 1JJewUpXpBHNDWVqzkKk7kWa7pQzRGfzpG
Debit: -11.24 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.0006 BTC
Net amount: -11.2406 BTC
Transaction ID: df776f8492caaee7004594f9e8b399342e24ce7febd8b79621ac7ded958b78ba
Question how can this Happen if my Wallet is Encrypted , With a very long password.
No one will be shipped a Neptune... ever. We won't be given any option other than 3THs hosted mining for a year (six months, maybe) in some massive aircraft hanger on the frozen tundra. Mark my words.
0.1 BTC bet on that?
No thanks and I hope I'm wrong.
But......
I just have this hunch. I've never been one to believe in conspiracy theories and the like. But I am almost completely convinced that not only will we never get to physically touch a Neptune but KNC will never actually produce them. It just doesn't make economic sense for them to spend millions on a marginally better technology when the market will soon be flooded with very similar and possibly more efficient miners (ASICMiner anyone?).
Hence the belief that KNC are using Neptune preorder funds to build their massive cloudhosting facilities and plan on using the cheap old 28nm tech to reduce costs. I also believe that KNC never actually were planning to build 20nm miners. It's just been a long con to them and the ultimate goal has always been to control the largest piece of the hashing pie.
Again, I hope I'm wrong. I'm a hardware junky and would love to actually get my hands on my Neptune which will be my last piece of mining hardware I will ever purchase other than the couple of Monarch cards that I had converted from 65nm orders. But also think that it is likely that BFL will do the exact same thing as KNC may be planning, cloudhosting only.
And a user might look at his kill-a-watt and find his miners have just ceased to be profitable given the btc value atm. Some months later the btc value rises enough so he turns his miners back on and he asks himself - What if I had kept mining at a loss and then got here where it's profitable again?
The Dukes of Moral Hazard
No one will be shipped a Neptune... ever. We won't be given any option other than 3THs hosted mining for a year (six months, maybe) in some massive aircraft hanger on the frozen tundra. Mark my words.
...
In addition-it looks like major companies are trying to maintain $3000/th price (KnC, cointerra, BFL, blackarrow, etc). It won't work at these BTC prices. Somebody will split first (chinese?).
The highest cost manufacturer will be the first to drop out, followed by the next highest cost and so on up the food chain. At least that's how it works generally in traditional manufacturing, but when btc is involved emotions come into play and toss reason out the window.
a customer will never make money with cloud hashing.. it is in the same category as payday loans.. for people that have reasons not to be with banks, etc, so they don't mind paying a premium to get bitcoins
No one will be shipped a Neptune... ever. We won't be given any option other than 3THs hosted mining for a year (six months, maybe) in some massive aircraft hanger on the frozen tundra. Mark my words.
Of course not, or at least not in the beginning. They already outlined plan B-6mo of hosting IF LATE (whatever this means) and then a choice between continued hosting OR shipment of physical Neptune (which by that time will probably produce fractions of BTC/mo).
However with second half of batch 2 with crooked math, I don't really know...
In my opinion, nobody should order ANYTHING from any manufacturer, unless delivery is in 7-10 days or instantaneous (cloud). Lesson learned.
Agreed. The time for pre-order equipment has passed. The difficulty increases and time to market have made this a non-viable means of designing, producing and shipping mining equipment.
The question that remains is to refund Neptune purchases or convert to a cloud hosted contract. I'd be in favor of a cloud contract IF the contract called for an increase in the TH/s rate that would match a physical miner being delivered to the purchaser. If KnC has seen an 11% decrease in power usage, allowing them to pack in more cores and increase the TH/s rate, then that increase should be reflected in the TH/s rate obtainable in a cloud hashing contract. If it isn't, then buyer should be compensated for the lost gain by a refund based on the percentage lost by going with a cloud hosting contract vs. physical possession of the miner purchased, or as an alternative, cloud hashing provided while the customer waits for physical delivery. In that case, once delivery is accomplished and the miner has been set up and is producing, the cloud contract would be cancelled.
No one will be shipped a Neptune... ever. We won't be given any option other than 3THs hosted mining for a year (six months, maybe) in some massive aircraft hanger on the frozen tundra. Mark my words.
Of course not, or at least not in the beginning. They already outlined plan B-6mo of hosting IF LATE (whatever this means) and then a choice between continued hosting OR shipment of physical Neptune (which by that time will probably produce fractions of BTC/mo).
However with second half of batch 2 that has crooked math, I don't really know...I don't want to make accusations, but it does not feel good.
In my opinion, nobody should order ANYTHING from any manufacturer, unless delivery is in 7-10 days or instantaneous (cloud). Lesson learned.
In addition-it looks like major companies are trying to maintain $3000/th price (KnC, cointerra, BFL, blackarrow, etc). It won't work at these BTC prices. Somebody will split first (chinese?).
1.000 to sell (according to the latest news) and only 1.015 left..
wasn't aware that one can order negative amounts
If this refund orgies continues a former Batch #2 order will become a Batch #0 delivery.
Pure speculation, but at least it looks like a former Batch#2 order (in case you have not ordered one of the last 185) is already a Batch#1 delivery. And many Batch#1 may get a Batch#0 delivery.
Based on the assumption that one moves up in the queue for each canceled order.
Can remember that there was a statement that they ship in the order of payment date and if there are at max only 3 Batches each 1.200 units then my assumption can't be that wrong, but still curious what they will do.
Either way there will be unhappy customers, because
1) the last ones (have not moved up one Batch) of Batch#1 paid 13k and will get their miner delivered in the same time span where people who paid 10k will get theirs too. And so some Batch#2 10k are waiting one month longer than others who paid 10k.
-or-
2) they do not move any orders up the queue and Batch#2 will contain >1.200 which would mean all customers of Batch#2 would have been betrayed with the claim "1.200 units". Might have even legal impact ?
..err....wait..what's this
1.000 + 1.000 = 1.200
wasn't aware that one can order negative amounts
If this refund orgies continues a former Batch #2 order will become a Batch #0 delivery.
Pure speculation, but at least it looks like a former Batch#2 order (in case you have not ordered one of the last 185) is already a Batch#1 delivery. And many Batch#1 may get a Batch#0 delivery.
Based on the assumption that one moves up in the queue for each canceled order.
Can remember that there was a statement that they ship in the order of payment date and if there are at max only 3 Batches each 1.200 units then my assumption can't be that wrong, but still curious what they will do.
Either way there will be unhappy customers, because
1) the last ones (have not moved up one Batch) of Batch#1 paid 13k and will get their miner delivered in the same time span where people who paid 10k will get theirs too. And so some Batch#2 10k are waiting one month longer than others who paid 10k.
-or-
2) they do not move any orders up the queue and Batch#2 will contain >1.200 which would mean all customers of Batch#2 would have been betrayed with the claim "1.200 units". Might have even legal impact ?
..err....wait..what's this
1.000 + 1.000 = 1.200Quote from: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-76
So today there are now 1000 more products in the shop. This is the second half batch two and will ship alongside the first half.
Limited batch of 1200 units,
No one will be shipped a Neptune... ever. We won't be given any option other than 3THs hosted mining for a year (six months, maybe) in some massive aircraft hanger on the frozen tundra. Mark my words.
0.1 BTC bet on that?
Ok then replace delivery with cloud hashing offer.
Interesting part remains.
Interesting part remains.
1.000 to sell (according to the latest news) and only 1.015 left..
wasn't aware that one can order negative amounts
If this refund orgies continues a former Batch #2 order will become a Batch #0 delivery.
Pure speculation, but at least it looks like a former Batch#2 order (in case you have not ordered one of the last 185) is already a Batch#1 delivery. And many Batch#1 may get a Batch#0 delivery.
Based on the assumption that one moves up in the queue for each canceled order.
Can remember that there was a statement that they ship in the order of payment date and if there are at max only 3 Batches each 1.200 units then my assumption can't be that wrong, but still curious what they will do.
Either way there will be unhappy customers, because
1) the last ones (have not moved up one Batch) of Batch#1 paid 13k and will get their miner delivered in the same time span where people who paid 10k will get theirs too. And so some Batch#2 10k are waiting one month longer than others who paid 10k.
-or-
2) they do not move any orders up the queue and Batch#2 will contain >1.200 which would mean all customers of Batch#2 would have been betrayed with the claim "1.200 units". Might have even legal impact ?
..err....wait..what's this 1.000 + 1.000 = 1.200
wasn't aware that one can order negative amounts
If this refund orgies continues a former Batch #2 order will become a Batch #0 delivery.
Pure speculation, but at least it looks like a former Batch#2 order (in case you have not ordered one of the last 185) is already a Batch#1 delivery. And many Batch#1 may get a Batch#0 delivery.
Based on the assumption that one moves up in the queue for each canceled order.
Can remember that there was a statement that they ship in the order of payment date and if there are at max only 3 Batches each 1.200 units then my assumption can't be that wrong, but still curious what they will do.
Either way there will be unhappy customers, because
1) the last ones (have not moved up one Batch) of Batch#1 paid 13k and will get their miner delivered in the same time span where people who paid 10k will get theirs too. And so some Batch#2 10k are waiting one month longer than others who paid 10k.
-or-
2) they do not move any orders up the queue and Batch#2 will contain >1.200 which would mean all customers of Batch#2 would have been betrayed with the claim "1.200 units". Might have even legal impact ?
..err....wait..what's this
1.000 + 1.000 = 1.200Quote from: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-76
So today there are now 1000 more products in the shop. This is the second half batch two and will ship alongside the first half.
Limited batch of 1200 units,
No one will be shipped a Neptune... ever. We won't be given any option other than 3THs hosted mining for a year (six months, maybe) in some massive aircraft hanger on the frozen tundra. Mark my words.
1.000 to sell (according to the latest news) and only 1.015 left..
wasn't aware that one can order negative amounts
If this refund orgies continues a former Batch #2 order will become a Batch #0 delivery.
Pure speculation, but at least it looks like a former Batch#2 order (in case you have not ordered one of the last 185) is already a Batch#1 delivery. And many Batch#1 may get a Batch#0 delivery.
Based on the assumption that one moves up in the queue for each canceled order.
Can remember that there was a statement that they ship in the order of payment date and if there are at max only 3 Batches each 1.200 units then my assumption can't be that wrong, but still curious what they will do.
Either way there will be unhappy customers, because
1) the last ones (have not moved up one Batch) of Batch#1 paid 13k and will get their miner delivered in the same time span where people who paid 10k will get theirs too. And so some Batch#2 10k are waiting one month longer than others who paid 10k.
-or-
2) they do not move any orders up the queue and Batch#2 will contain >1.200 which would mean all customers of Batch#2 would have been betrayed with the claim "1.200 units". Might have even legal impact ?
..err....wait..what's this 1.000 + 1.000 = 1.200
wasn't aware that one can order negative amounts
If this refund orgies continues a former Batch #2 order will become a Batch #0 delivery.
Pure speculation, but at least it looks like a former Batch#2 order (in case you have not ordered one of the last 185) is already a Batch#1 delivery. And many Batch#1 may get a Batch#0 delivery.
Based on the assumption that one moves up in the queue for each canceled order.
Can remember that there was a statement that they ship in the order of payment date and if there are at max only 3 Batches each 1.200 units then my assumption can't be that wrong, but still curious what they will do.
Either way there will be unhappy customers, because
1) the last ones (have not moved up one Batch) of Batch#1 paid 13k and will get their miner delivered in the same time span where people who paid 10k will get theirs too. And so some Batch#2 10k are waiting one month longer than others who paid 10k.
-or-
2) they do not move any orders up the queue and Batch#2 will contain >1.200 which would mean all customers of Batch#2 would have been betrayed with the claim "1.200 units". Might have even legal impact ?
..err....wait..what's this
1.000 + 1.000 = 1.200Quote from: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-76
So today there are now 1000 more products in the shop. This is the second half batch two and will ship alongside the first half.
Limited batch of 1200 units,
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