Topic: Synthetic gold from LENR reactors could drive crypto to insane levels - page 5. (Read 14938 times)
March 05, 2014, 07:57:00 PM
This is probably not going to happen. Let me know when a good, scientifically sound, reproducible, peer-reviewed article in a major journal is published that shows LENR working and producing gold on a large scale and cost effectively.
March 05, 2014, 07:17:59 PM
LENR has so far not been proven to work, in scientifically controlled environments replicated in more than one laboratory. At the moment we're still at the 'this kind of works, sometimes, but I can't get my colleagues to replicate the experiments and get the same findings'. We've been here for 25 years now.
We've known how to create gold from mercury for decades. It requires a particular isotope of mercury, ends up producing radioactive gold, and is much more expensive than just digging gold out of the ground. Maybe LENR will change that, maybe not.
LENR promises (for 25 years now) to change the world through cheap, unlimited energy production. Whether or not it makes gold as well is almost irrelevant. Certainly it has no impact on bitcoin whatsoever.
We've known how to create gold from mercury for decades. It requires a particular isotope of mercury, ends up producing radioactive gold, and is much more expensive than just digging gold out of the ground. Maybe LENR will change that, maybe not.
LENR promises (for 25 years now) to change the world through cheap, unlimited energy production. Whether or not it makes gold as well is almost irrelevant. Certainly it has no impact on bitcoin whatsoever.
March 05, 2014, 06:32:34 PM
Good for cryptos and the environment. I'll make gold taps for my house.
March 05, 2014, 05:06:49 PM
March 05, 2014, 04:45:51 PM
Actually, if the value of gold is pegged to the amount of energy required to manufacture it, then energy is money. OMG Nwabudike was right all along!
OOPS hold on, this is a misunderstanding, LENR reactors output energy and the gold is a byproduct.
So there is no energy required, it's the other way round, that makes it so dangerous. Energy might be dirt cheap, even free, if huge LENR reactors are operated just for the purpose of elemental transfiguration.
Free energy, no precious metals or any rare elements anymore, insanely expensive real estate and rent, and of course astronomic BTC prices
March 05, 2014, 04:16:41 PM
Who the fuck will wait 2 decades
March 05, 2014, 03:21:47 PM
US isn't on gold standard, so this is not relevant. So what if gold goes down in value.
You don't understand anything. Central banks are afraid of gold, that is why the price is manipulated, if they print too much money gold goes up and people become afraid. It is like an indicator, a canary in the coal mine.
If gold has no value anymore, if no rare elements exist anymore, this will be a game changer because commodity money will be history, forever. The concept of intrinsic value will be gone.
Fiat has got no value, but in the future there will be no other form of real money (gold, silver etc.) with intrinsic value either, so the only alternative to fiat money, is crypto currency. No intrinsic value, but cannot be created from thin air at least.
This is a nonsense reply, so I wonder if I should waste time trying to figure out how you can state in one breath that fiat has no value, and that gold is "real money" but wait a sec, it's really just an indicator...dude: if gold goes down in price that doesn't mean everything goes down in price. But crazier still is how you accept a crypt currency can have value based on demand, but somehow that same convention just can't apply to fiat currency
March 05, 2014, 03:04:28 PM
Gold will always have value, but this sort of thing will eventually remove those who speculate on gold as a monetary vehicle from the markets. It's been a hell of a slow demise, but one way or another, precious metals will be traded for the value of their various material purposes (physical, chemical and electrical properties IOW) at some future date onwards.
March 05, 2014, 03:02:14 PM
Actually, if the value of gold is pegged to the amount of energy required to manufacture it, then energy is money. OMG Nwabudike was right all along!
March 05, 2014, 02:53:03 PM
Gold has only one stable isotope and as the current understanding of physics goes won't be possible to be created artificially on an economical viable basis. (The amount of energy required to do so prevents it)
The treshold of "economical viability" may change with time.
If you want to hold precious metals for 30+ years: Better buy silver.
Exactly. What if in 10 years gold is $5k/oz and this technology begins pumping out gold at a cost of $4k? The number one reason people buy and hold gold is that it can't be printed and devalued like gov't money. Once they can "print" gold with these machines, what happens next? In that case, I agree with the OP that virtual "gold and silver" (BTC and LTC) will be the only thing left that can fill the vacuum left by the loss of confidence in physical precious metals.
March 05, 2014, 02:44:31 PM
Gold has only one stable isotope and as the current understanding of physics goes won't be possible to be created artificially on an economical viable basis. (The amount of energy required to do so prevents it)
The treshold of "economical viability" may change with time.
If you want to hold precious metals for 30+ years: Better buy silver.
Not really to that extent. The amount of energy required is so large that no nuclear energy source can even theoretically make economically viable.
And if we either a) discover a new foundation for nuclear physics or b) pull energy in never before seen amounts out of the vacuum the value of precious metals would be the least I would be excited about.
March 05, 2014, 02:42:11 PM
Gold has only one stable isotope and as the current understanding of physics goes won't be possible to be created artificially on an economical viable basis. (The amount of energy required to do so prevents it)
The treshold of "economical viability" may change with time.
If you want to hold precious metals for 30+ years: Better buy silver.
March 05, 2014, 02:07:17 PM
Gold has only one stable isotope and as the current understanding of physics goes won't be possible to be created artificially on an economical viable basis. (The amount of energy required to do so prevents it)
Nuclear physics is a pretty mature field, almost like chemistry and it would mean a pretty drastic scientific paradigm shift if physics would be able to describe a process of arbitrary creating elements on a economical viable basis.
This company reeks of a typical investing scam, all complete with hoax(pseudo)science. If they had something they would have gone the way over academia and published a research paper.
Any of you guys remember Steorn?
Nuclear physics is a pretty mature field, almost like chemistry and it would mean a pretty drastic scientific paradigm shift if physics would be able to describe a process of arbitrary creating elements on a economical viable basis.
This company reeks of a typical investing scam, all complete with hoax(pseudo)science. If they had something they would have gone the way over academia and published a research paper.
Any of you guys remember Steorn?
March 05, 2014, 02:00:09 PM
The numbers just don't add up. Even if LENRs were mass produced, extracting and decontaminating the gold from the cores would run over $4000/troy oz. A very small portion of heavy metal isotopes decay into gold. The vast majority decay into lead.
That refers to the gold transmutation achieved by a fission reactor. Such gold is not stable and decays to lead, like you said.
In 1980, Glenn Seaborg was successful in transmuting minute quantities lead to gold, possibly via bismuth. In 1972, Russian scientists found that the lead shielding of an experimental nuclear reactor near Lake Baikal in
Siberia had unexpectedly turned to gold!
Unfortunately such gold is likely to be radioactive, and would decay back to stable lead, whilst releasing dangerous radiation.
The trouble is that this is possible no longer the case with LENR:
http://de.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llc-lenr-transmutation-networks-can-produce-goldmay-19-2012
Element synthesis will change the world for the better, but not financially, because it destroys the capability to store portable, high density intrinsic value. In other words, commodity based money will only be possible using pointers to value that is stored somewhere else (e.g. land, oil) but not in the money itself (e.g. gold, silver coins).
Thus, commodity based property/money in the LENR world, will always be subject to government seizure and devaluation.
I was actually factoring in your assumptions and giving you the benefit of the doubt. Synthetic gold would STILL not be cost-effective. Look, I'm no gold bug and I'm a permabull on crypto, but this argument is wishful thinking. It's unnecessary anyway. Gold has been subject to seizure at least since FDR did it during the great depression.
March 05, 2014, 01:44:44 PM
The numbers just don't add up. Even if LENRs were mass produced, extracting and decontaminating the gold from the cores would run over $4000/troy oz. A very small portion of heavy metal isotopes decay into gold. The vast majority decay into lead.
That refers to the gold transmutation achieved by a fission reactor. Such gold is not stable and decays to lead, like you said.
In 1980, Glenn Seaborg was successful in transmuting minute quantities lead to gold, possibly via bismuth. In 1972, Russian scientists found that the lead shielding of an experimental nuclear reactor near Lake Baikal in
Siberia had unexpectedly turned to gold!
Unfortunately such gold is likely to be radioactive, and would decay back to stable lead, whilst releasing dangerous radiation.
The trouble is that this is possible no longer the case with LENR:
http://de.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llc-lenr-transmutation-networks-can-produce-goldmay-19-2012
Element synthesis will change the world for the better, but not financially, because it destroys the capability to store portable, high density intrinsic value. In other words, commodity based money will only be possible using pointers to value that is stored somewhere else (e.g. land, oil) but not in the money itself (e.g. gold, silver coins).
Thus, commodity based property/money in the LENR world, will always be subject to government seizure and devaluation.
March 05, 2014, 12:49:00 PM
The numbers just don't add up. Even if LENRs were mass produced, extracting and decontaminating the gold from the cores would run over $4000/troy oz. A very small portion of heavy metal isotopes decay into gold. The vast majority decay into lead.
March 05, 2014, 12:27:23 PM
US isn't on gold standard, so this is not relevant. So what if gold goes down in value.
You don't understand anything. Central banks are afraid of gold, that is why the price is manipulated, if they print too much money gold goes up and people become afraid. It is like an indicator, a canary in the coal mine.
If gold has no value anymore, if no rare elements exist anymore, this will be a game changer because commodity money will be history, forever. The concept of intrinsic value will be gone.
Fiat has got no value, but in the future there will be no other form of real money (gold, silver etc.) with intrinsic value either, so the only alternative to fiat money, is crypto currency. No intrinsic value, but cannot be created from thin air at least.
March 05, 2014, 11:59:28 AM
US isn't on gold standard, so this is not relevant. So what if gold goes down in value.
March 05, 2014, 11:50:46 AM
Hi all!
low energy nuclear reactions have been more rumor than fact for a long time.
This may change now, over the next 1-2 decades.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2014/01/04/doe-mentions-technology-behind-the-home-nuclear-reactor-in-funding-opportunity/
Actually I think it is a nightmare, that will change the world forever. Synthetic rare metals will mean that there is nothing left to protect people from government created fiat inflation. Real estate is only for people that are already relatively rich, and it is also not portable and cannot be hidden from confiscation, which is a real issue in non-democratic countries.
Jewish real estate was confiscated by the Nazis, escaping with gold was a possibility.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR CRYPTO? Imagine that in a few years a breakthrough is published and Gold, Platinum et cetera can be mass produced as a by-product of a LENR reaction.
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Albrecht/2014-02-25-Alchemy-2-0-Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reactor-Creates-Gold-and-Platinum.html
Trillions of wealth will seek new targets. Real estate will be even more unaffordable than today, governments will abandon any limits and print fiat like mad, knowing that the gold standard will be history.
We will be helpless cows, milked by inflation and rental payments.
Cryptocurrencies however, will benefit from the gigantic stream of money, and the cheap LENR energy.
Expect $ 1000 000 BTC and $ 20 000 LTC, when the LENR shit hits the fan.
Hope you can sleep tonight ....
Cheers
Leo
low energy nuclear reactions have been more rumor than fact for a long time.
This may change now, over the next 1-2 decades.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2014/01/04/doe-mentions-technology-behind-the-home-nuclear-reactor-in-funding-opportunity/
Actually I think it is a nightmare, that will change the world forever. Synthetic rare metals will mean that there is nothing left to protect people from government created fiat inflation. Real estate is only for people that are already relatively rich, and it is also not portable and cannot be hidden from confiscation, which is a real issue in non-democratic countries.
Jewish real estate was confiscated by the Nazis, escaping with gold was a possibility.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR CRYPTO? Imagine that in a few years a breakthrough is published and Gold, Platinum et cetera can be mass produced as a by-product of a LENR reaction.
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Albrecht/2014-02-25-Alchemy-2-0-Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reactor-Creates-Gold-and-Platinum.html
Trillions of wealth will seek new targets. Real estate will be even more unaffordable than today, governments will abandon any limits and print fiat like mad, knowing that the gold standard will be history.
We will be helpless cows, milked by inflation and rental payments.
Cryptocurrencies however, will benefit from the gigantic stream of money, and the cheap LENR energy.
Expect $ 1000 000 BTC and $ 20 000 LTC, when the LENR shit hits the fan.
Hope you can sleep tonight ....
Cheers
Leo
Jump to: