Taproot proposal - page 10. | Bitcointalksearch.org

fillippone

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on May 21, 2021, 03:57:25 AM

Quote from: acquafredda on May 17, 2021, 04:05:50 PM

Quote from: fillippone on May 17, 2021, 02:56:07 PM

Taproot won’t be activated in this period.

As I write we are above 78.08%: only 12% missing. Not so bad Wink

hmm, checking the stats on my node (using bitcoin-cli getblockchaininfo), only 72.5% of blocks have signalled this difficulty period. Maybe I'm reading it wrong?

whatever the true stats are, the number is clearly climbing.

I guess, I could check the computation, but I am lazy, that the website considers a pool signalling for readiness when the last block found is signalling readiness.
When the pool is considered signalling, then 100% of the hash rate of such pool is added to the sum.
So it is quite misleading when a pool signals only a few blocks (because not everyone amongst their miners is actually signalling) as the actual ratio is lower, as your node signals.

But this is too simple for you, maybe I didn’t even understand what you said!

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: acquafredda on May 17, 2021, 04:05:50 PM

Quote from: fillippone on May 17, 2021, 02:56:07 PM

Taproot won’t be activated in this period.

As I write we are above 78.08%: only 12% missing. Not so bad Wink

hmm, checking the stats on my node (using bitcoin-cli getblockchaininfo), only 72.5% of blocks have signalled this difficulty period. Maybe I'm reading it wrong?

whatever the true stats are, the number is clearly climbing.

Karartma1

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 21, 2021, 01:20:20 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 21, 2021, 12:42:46 AM

Is this just a simple problem with not fully upgrading all their servers/nodes, or something else? T

Most probably yes.
Some mining pools seem to be slow at rolling out the upgrade to all their servers and end up only updating one at a time which is why the numbers are lower than 100%.
It seems like we could get locked_in after the next difficulty adjustment though.

Not every pool is like SlushPool

However, it could well be that if it's not the actual next period maybe it could be the next one.
From the data available, it doesn't look like miners will not follow and I'm pretty confident we'll have it updated soon. I want to see it in action, as theory-wise is still so foggy to me.

pooya87

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 21, 2021, 12:42:46 AM

Is this just a simple problem with not fully upgrading all their servers/nodes, or something else? T

Most probably yes.
Some mining pools seem to be slow at rolling out the upgrade to all their servers and end up only updating one at a time which is why the numbers are lower than 100%.
It seems like we could get locked_in after the next difficulty adjustment though.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: cygan on May 18, 2021, 10:53:22 AM

Quote from: nibor on May 18, 2021, 05:44:31 AM

BTC.TOP signalling too - so now all of the top 12 pools have signalled one or more blocks - so if they all signal full time up at about 95%.

we can slowly put the hats on Cool

https://twitter.com/BitcoinMemeHub/status/1394473764365217795

Everyone can slowly wear their masks on too, https://taproot.fish/

What is wrong with BTC.com? They signalled for Taproot, then they stop signalling? Is this just a simple problem with not fully upgrading all their servers/nodes, or something else? There are 85% of miners signalling, BTC.com holds 10% rounded off.

https://taproot.watch/miners

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: achow101 on May 20, 2021, 07:15:01 PM

btc.com is still not fully signaling. My monitoring of them indicates that they are only issuing work that signals for Taproot on 1 out of 4 of their stratum servers. This is consistent with the number of signaling blocks that they have been mining too, as most of their blocks do not signal.

I agree with that. From Block 684317 that was mined 10 hours ago to the recent block mined when I posted this, Block 684368. It would be noticed that BTC.com is not fully signalling. Also if Rawpool can signal and fully signal, it will almost make all new blocks mined to be part of blocks that signal for taproot activation.

Block that did not signal right from block 684317that was mined ten hours ago to block 684368 that was mined few minutes ago before I posted this.
Block 684317: BTC.com
Block 684327: Rawpool
Block 684329: Unknown mining pool
Block 684330: Arkpool
Block 684332: BTC.com
Block 684333: Rawpool
Block 684350: Rawpool
Block 684367: BTC.com

achow101

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Quote from: nibor on May 19, 2021, 06:12:42 AM

I think we are there!

All 11 of the top 11 pools are signalling with all blocks. As are 3 other smaller pools.
So voting over 94%.

Assuming no pool changes its mind, and there is no shift in miners to non-signalling pools then lock-in around the 11/12th June is certain to happen.

btc.com is still not fully signaling. My monitoring of them indicates that they are only issuing work that signals for Taproot on 1 out of 4 of their stratum servers. This is consistent with the number of signaling blocks that they have been mining too, as most of their blocks do not signal.

fillippone

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Quote from: cygan on May 20, 2021, 12:42:42 PM

Quote

Taproot now has more than the required minimum of miners signaling support to lock in the upgrade, but the upgrade isn’t a shoe-in just yet.

Per the activation rules set by Speedy Trial, 90% of blocks mined within one of Bitcoin’s difficulty periods need to signal support for the upgrade for it to be locked in for activation in November.

https://www.coindesk.com/when-will-bitcoin-taproot-upgrade-lock-in

Indeed.
It's nice seeing the "community", in a broad sense, cooperate on a hugely non-controversial update, even more on a difficult time for bitcoin, that is under attack on many fronts.But signaling for activation in the third or fourth or any other period of the speedy trial won't change the timeline.

cygan

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Quote

Taproot now has more than the required minimum of miners signaling support to lock in the upgrade, but the upgrade isn’t a shoe-in just yet.

Per the activation rules set by Speedy Trial, 90% of blocks mined within one of Bitcoin’s difficulty periods need to signal support for the upgrade for it to be locked in for activation in November.

https://www.coindesk.com/when-will-bitcoin-taproot-upgrade-lock-in

nibor

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I think we are there!

All 11 of the top 11 pools are signalling with all blocks. As are 3 other smaller pools.
So voting over 94%.

Assuming no pool changes its mind, and there is no shift in miners to non-signalling pools then lock-in around the 11/12th June is certain to happen.

pooya87

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 18, 2021, 10:07:29 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on May 18, 2021, 09:55:06 PM

Quote from: nibor on May 18, 2021, 04:22:34 AM

Assumption has been that the pools do a test block - to check it works OK (which we guess this is). Then they slowly roll out to their infrastructure - so next we might see 25% of blocks signalling from them then 50% then 100%. Or however it is they roll it out. But I think they said on Twitter were hoping to be at 100% by end of this week.

There is nothing to test since they are not changing anything about the block itself just a single bit in the block header version field!
It is either because they have different remote servers that operate separately and have to be upgraded one at a time or the change is interfering with something else they are doing such as using ASIC boost!

Is the purported "ASIC's boost" overt or covert or just difficult to know what is happening?

And how speculative is such an "ASIC's boost" practice that you mentioned? I heard that covert ASIC boost was a "thingie" in 2017-ish, but I thought that segregated witness removed such possibilities to engage in such practices, at least in terms of how it was understood to be being carried out in early to mid-2017.

It is speculation.
As for SegWit it didn't remove ASIC boost, it just made it harder since it requires witness merkle root in coinbase. Otherwise the "boost" is mostly about how you compute the 3 block compression that is required in computing the double SHA256 of the 80-byte message.
I believe the version manipulation (which would make them hesitate to upgrade soon) is categorized under Overt AsicBoost.
Here are two references:
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1604/1604.00575.pdf
https://blog.bitmex.com/graphical-illustration-of-a-bitcoin-block/

JayJuanGee

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 18, 2021, 09:55:06 PM

Quote from: nibor on May 18, 2021, 04:22:34 AM

Assumption has been that the pools do a test block - to check it works OK (which we guess this is). Then they slowly roll out to their infrastructure - so next we might see 25% of blocks signalling from them then 50% then 100%. Or however it is they roll it out. But I think they said on Twitter were hoping to be at 100% by end of this week.

There is nothing to test since they are not changing anything about the block itself just a single bit in the block header version field!
It is either because they have different remote servers that operate separately and have to be upgraded one at a time or the change is interfering with something else they are doing such as using ASIC boost!

Is the purported "ASIC's boost" overt or covert or just difficult to know what is happening?

And how speculative is such an "ASIC's boost" practice that you mentioned? I heard that covert ASIC boost was a "thingie" in 2017-ish, but I thought that segregated witness removed such possibilities to engage in such practices, at least in terms of how it was understood to be being carried out in early to mid-2017.

pooya87

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Quote from: nibor on May 18, 2021, 04:22:34 AM

Assumption has been that the pools do a test block - to check it works OK (which we guess this is). Then they slowly roll out to their infrastructure - so next we might see 25% of blocks signalling from them then 50% then 100%. Or however it is they roll it out. But I think they said on Twitter were hoping to be at 100% by end of this week.

There is nothing to test since they are not changing anything about the block itself just a single bit in the block header version field!
It is either because they have different remote servers that operate separately and have to be upgraded one at a time or the change is interfering with something else they are doing such as using ASIC boost!

Karartma1

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Quote from: cygan on May 18, 2021, 10:53:22 AM

Quote from: nibor on May 18, 2021, 05:44:31 AM

BTC.TOP signalling too - so now all of the top 12 pools have signalled one or more blocks - so if they all signal full time up at about 95%.

we can slowly put the hats on Cool

https://twitter.com/BitcoinMemeHub/status/1394473764365217795

If my OpSec IRL wouldn't require any mention of my crazy bitcoinery I'd absolutely wear that amazing hat but given the fact that I'm almost paranoid as fuck, I'd never wear it in public.
Great design and good news, taproot can come sooner than I imagined.

cygan

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Quote from: nibor on May 18, 2021, 05:44:31 AM

BTC.TOP signalling too - so now all of the top 12 pools have signalled one or more blocks - so if they all signal full time up at about 95%.

we can slowly put the hats on Cool

https://twitter.com/BitcoinMemeHub/status/1394473764365217795

acquafredda

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Quote from: nibor on May 18, 2021, 04:22:34 AM

Quote from: acquafredda on May 17, 2021, 04:05:50 PM

Yes bro, they are getting there: looking at the stats, one thing was a bit odd, Binance pool had only one block signaling taproot over 40. There are a few pools which are behaving in a weird way but maybe that is me that I do not know very much about how the whole thing works.
As I write we are above 78.08%: only 12% missing. Not so bad Wink

Assumption has been that the pools do a test block - to check it works OK (which we guess this is). Then they slowly roll out to their infrastructure - so next we might see 25% of blocks signalling from them then 50% then 100%. Or however it is they roll it out. But I think they said on Twitter were hoping to be at 100% by end of this week.

I did not know that, thank you for the clarification.
After the latest addition by btc.com, unless these miners go nuts taproot can be activated during the next round since 95% is enough to get this upgrade done soon!
cannot wait for it

nibor

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BTC.TOP signalling too - so now all of the top 12 pools have signalled one or more blocks - so if they all signal full time up at about 95%.

nibor

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Activity: 438

Merit: 291

Quote from: acquafredda on May 17, 2021, 04:05:50 PM

Yes bro, they are getting there: looking at the stats, one thing was a bit odd, Binance pool had only one block signaling taproot over 40. There are a few pools which are behaving in a weird way but maybe that is me that I do not know very much about how the whole thing works.
As I write we are above 78.08%: only 12% missing. Not so bad Wink

Assumption has been that the pools do a test block - to check it works OK (which we guess this is). Then they slowly roll out to their infrastructure - so next we might see 25% of blocks signalling from them then 50% then 100%. Or however it is they roll it out. But I think they said on Twitter were hoping to be at 100% by end of this week.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 17, 2021, 02:00:45 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 17, 2021, 01:54:17 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on May 14, 2021, 10:44:04 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 14, 2021, 04:56:39 AM

Are you OK if miners won’t signal for the upgrade?

We aren't facing any kind of deadline after which bitcoin ceases to exist if it hasn't upgraded yet! We are also just in the second week after the release of v. 0.21.1 and I'd rather everyone upgraded naturally specially miners who run modified software not just bitcoin core as is.

OK, plus the upgrade is not facing fierce resistance from the mining cartel. You’re right, if everyone is cooperative, the network should do a regular Miner Activated Soft Fork, and minimize the risks.

Cartel surely does not seem to be a correct word to describe bitcoin mining.. even though there seemed to have been some common interest (resistance) in the 2017 forkening drama.. but even then the factual play out of those events do not really seem to rise to the level of cartel then, and maybe even less so now.

cartel just seems like a misleading term that exaggerates and hardly describes with very much accuracy.

It does not seem correct, but Jihan Wu and his Chinese friends imposing their will on the network surely did make the community feel that way, and there was the New York Agreement. Am I exaggerating? OK, but the UASF was a victory for the community more than most people would admit.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: acquafredda on May 17, 2021, 04:05:50 PM

Yes bro, they are getting there: looking at the stats, one thing was a bit odd, Binance pool had only one block signaling taproot over 40. There are a few pools which are behaving in a weird way but maybe that is me that I do not know very much about how the whole thing works.
As I write we are above 78.08%: only 12% missing. Not so bad Wink

Binance pool has 2 signals over 44 now, but it is truly somehow, but I remember when mining pools were to show support for Taproot, Binance pool got me annoyed as it does not show support for Taproot earlier, but it later showed support. I think Binance pool will still also show green signal but it can take time as the pool like delaying.

Topic: Taproot proposal - page 10. (Read 11665 times)