Topic: Technology vs. Marketing. Which is more important? (Read 6474 times)
Short term: marketing. Long term: fundamentals. For me it's about that simple, kind of like penny stocks and probably just about everything else.
Both, but in this Altcoin status, i think marketing is even more important than good technology.
But only the good coins with good develoments will survive in longer term. The competition is high.
Both, but in this Altcoin status, i think marketing is even more important than good technology.
Technology vs. Marketing
Some copy-coins around here dont have any of both. The better could have both.
Some copy-coins around here dont have any of both. The better could have both.
For the copy coins, it is the marketing which is more important. For the original coin, both are important.
Technology vs. Marketing
Some copy-coins around here dont have any of both. The better could have both.
Some copy-coins around here dont have any of both. The better could have both.
I don't expect a 50+ year old man to understand why Dogecoin was successful, and I'll simply leave it at that.
Oh, I don’t know about that. Back in 69/70, I was in the NE of the UK, pursuing a Business Studies HND at Sunderland Poly. The course had a marketing emphasis and as result I had the inestimable honour of being not-taught marketing by Jim Quigley -- also a successful businessman, the owner of a chain of supermarkets (verging on “magnate” status, that).
First day of term, we're all sat in the big lecture theatre, keyed up for our first Marketing lecture, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed (or at least desperately trying to appear so).
Down at the front, standing beside the lectern was this slightly-built, silver-haired, *very* well-dressed, little elderly guy. In a gentle Irish lilt he introduces himself (as Jim) and kicks off the lecture with a softly-spoken question: “What is marketing?”
Everyone assumed it was a rhetorical question. During the lengthening silence that followed, it started to dawn on us that it was an actual question. A composed Jim waited calmly. Some brief confusion reigned, after some frantic sideways glances a definition was hesitantly ventured: right product, right place, right price? the venturer expecting to be corrected.
“Mmm” said Jim, tilting his head slightly to one side and looking up at us. “Does everyone think that covers it?”
Someone bravely narrowed / broadened the definition. Someone else chipped in, expanding it to include research and over the course of the time allotted for the lecture, with an occasional light supplementary question from Jim, we thrashed out our own definition of marketing.
And that's how the pattern went for the rest of the course; Jim asked a question and the rest of the lecture was spent by us in vigorous debate over the answer, where there could be an answer and whether it could be fitted nasally.
Some time later, we labbies at HP were encouraged to take the in-house marketing course. I declined but many of my colleagues sensibly took up the offer. I was again impressed with Jim's perspicacity and also mildly amused when they each came back bearing a copy of Philip Kotler’s Marketing Management textbook, 7th edition --- 25 years earlier, Jim had selected Kotler (the 1st edition) as the set book for the marketing course at Sunderland.
I'm quite confident that were he around today, Jim would understand why Dogecoin has been successful. After all, I'm his pedagogical legacy and I understand why.
Cheers
Graham
So these things are intertwined like lovers creating a baby which is the project.
Stop, go to the cookie jar, take 1 bonus Friday cookie for reward of your poetic statement
Technology vs. Marketing. Which is more important?
This is one of the questions you really cant answer its not really something you can measure. If this helps I am moving from marketing to technology professionally. As a marketer i can tell you this: U gotta be able to sell the sizze. No sizzle=No sale. if you dont have the right marketing no one will hear or understand your great idea. SO these things are intertwined like lovers creating a baby which is the project. u absolutely need both.
This is one of the questions you really cant answer its not really something you can measure. If this helps I am moving from marketing to technology professionally. As a marketer i can tell you this: U gotta be able to sell the sizze. No sizzle=No sale. if you dont have the right marketing no one will hear or understand your great idea. SO these things are intertwined like lovers creating a baby which is the project. u absolutely need both.
Note that any solutions to the problem of ISPs blocking P2P apps that involve a TURN (when STUN tunneling fails or is blocked), VPN, or other server in the middle, defeat the entire point of extracting the value of the bandwidth allocation of users provided by their ISPs, because then one is paying for the bandwidth of the server to relay the shards.
If Storj and MaidSafe max out the consumption of each user's upload bandwidth (thus leeching off users with higher allocations charging the costs to those users' ISPs), they will also be blocked by ISPs. Additionally STUN tunnelling often fails and thus a TURN relay server has to be employed (or using the other peers as relays thus leeching the upload bandwidth of those ISPs who don't block tunneling).
In short, P2P for bandwidth consumption between ISP hosted user accounts is not going to be reliable. Many users will have frustrations when trying to be a storage provider. It will not be the case that every user in the system can also be a storage provider. And it will probably end up being the case that the most efficient storage providers will be hosted on dedicated servers.
In other words, it is a fantasy to think we can get decentralized file storage without paying for it.
We can try to design decentralized, permissionless file systems that correctly incentivize the storage and bandwidth providers, and the users of the system need to pay for it somehow. Whether or not these can remain permissionless given the need to host these on servers is open to further contemplation and study. Most all hosting providers include in their Terms of Sevice a restriction on hosting illegal copyrighted content, so unless one can provide a mechanism for which illegal content is removed from the system, it seems to me that hosts will be forced to ban the protocol (system).
So where I am headed with this line of thinking is that we ought to just give up on illegal content and illegal uses of anonymity. It isn't going to work. It is a fantasy.
If Storj and MaidSafe max out the consumption of each user's upload bandwidth (thus leeching off users with higher allocations charging the costs to those users' ISPs), they will also be blocked by ISPs. Additionally STUN tunnelling often fails and thus a TURN relay server has to be employed (or using the other peers as relays thus leeching the upload bandwidth of those ISPs who don't block tunneling).
In short, P2P for bandwidth consumption between ISP hosted user accounts is not going to be reliable. Many users will have frustrations when trying to be a storage provider. It will not be the case that every user in the system can also be a storage provider. And it will probably end up being the case that the most efficient storage providers will be hosted on dedicated servers.
In other words, it is a fantasy to think we can get decentralized file storage without paying for it.
We can try to design decentralized, permissionless file systems that correctly incentivize the storage and bandwidth providers, and the users of the system need to pay for it somehow. Whether or not these can remain permissionless given the need to host these on servers is open to further contemplation and study. Most all hosting providers include in their Terms of Sevice a restriction on hosting illegal copyrighted content, so unless one can provide a mechanism for which illegal content is removed from the system, it seems to me that hosts will be forced to ban the protocol (system).
So where I am headed with this line of thinking is that we ought to just give up on illegal content and illegal uses of anonymity. It isn't going to work. It is a fantasy.
Continuing my analysis, the other advantage of decentralized storage is durability and availability. This is a facet of permissionless in the sense that no one entity has a monopoly on the storage. It is not permissionless in the sense of allowing illegal activity as explained upthread (because the storage will hosted on servers, even those are owned/managed by different entities, they all are regulated by the law reflected in the hosts' Terms of Service).
So I am envisioning the possibility to design a system for decentralized file storage where the users pay the storage providers, but the storage providers are decentralized entities (even though they are all high performance hosted providers and not ISP user clients).
In this case, I think microtransactions is the only way it can be done decentralized. If we instead attempt to aggregate a monthly use plan (or similarly analogous aggregations), then some centralized party will be in charge of paying the decentralized entities, so then it is not decentralized.
So therefor I have just identified a potential market for microtransactions that can't be offered by centrally owned cloud services.
Alternatively, Storj and Maidsafe are paying storage providers coins for proving they are storing data, then data is exchanged in a tit-for-tat[1]. If used with ISP user clients as storage providers, this will have performance weaknesses as well as being economically a theft paradigm in support of Net Neutrality oligarchy and taxation (for the reasons I explained upthread). But a user can't do a tit-for-tax exchange if user is not also a storage provider, thus afaics Storj and Maidsafe are forcing every user to be a storage provider. Otherwise they need to use some form of upload bandwidth theft model such akin to Bittorrent's optimistic unchoking. The only way to fix Storj and Maidsafe is for them to adopt a microtransaction payment model so users can pay for the upload and storage costs to decentralized providers.
So therefor I have explained why Storj and Maidsafe are fundamentally flawed. And I have explained why decentralized file storage can ONLY be done with microtransactions.
Next we need to reason about the viability of the markets for decentralized file storage and also the technical viability/tradeoffs. We need to not only think about ability to prove the data has been retained by some provider, but also about how to enforce against the storage of illegal content (otherwise I have argued upthread that the entire plan is flawed since hosts' Terms of Service will likely block protocols/systems which can allow copyrighted material to be stored without recourse by injured parties).
[1] Note Storj also alludes to microtransactions, so perhaps the tit-for-tat exchange only applies to Maidsafe. I will study this more.
Marketing is very important. I will stay with me opinion,without technology will not be marketing or inventions who can change the future and get job places, change your lifes?
Marketing is much more important. From marketing you can know the future profit of the project. 
Marketing is most important. There is no difference in terms of technology between bitcoin and litecoin, but due to the bigger community, bitcoin is worth more than litecoin.
As I asserted upthread, DOGE's marketing strategy is HOPE and nothing more (the fun aspect was only the confluence hallucinative mania icing drug on the P&D cake):
Am I the only one who is dreaming of a substantial raise of price of DOGECOIN (pretty easy to mine in LEGIT CLOUD MINING). I mean someone can be rich if he keeps mining this currency which is seeing some raise these 2 last days, or is it just a temporarily raise ?
I would love to hear experienced users opinions, as I am mining about 3000 DOGECOIN per day via LEGIT CLOUD MINING.
Imagine if the price goes from 0.00000053 BTC to 0.00000533 BTC for only 3000 DOGE there is a difference of more than 0.01 BTC, imagine if the prices goes up more than this and we have a whole lot more DOGE than this. Wow, I keep dreaming, hope I am not the only one.
I would love to hear experienced users opinions, as I am mining about 3000 DOGECOIN per day via LEGIT CLOUD MINING.
Imagine if the price goes from 0.00000053 BTC to 0.00000533 BTC for only 3000 DOGE there is a difference of more than 0.01 BTC, imagine if the prices goes up more than this and we have a whole lot more DOGE than this. Wow, I keep dreaming, hope I am not the only one.
I think if you want to become an interesting project among tech savvy users, then technology is more important than anything else. but at the same time if you want to make the project popular among anybody you need a good marketing.
but after all that considered, the project needs to be actually useful and not just with complex technological features.
but after all that considered, the project needs to be actually useful and not just with complex technological features.
I think social media can possibly be taken over by cryptocurrency/decentralized/blockchain technology. Think about it... Facebook has a market capitalization of 266.3 billion. What if a portion of their net profit was distributed to its users instead? Which service would you use... one that makes money off of you providing you nothing in return, or one that pays you to use its service? There are likely a few projects attempting to capitalize on this space. The only one off the top of my head I can name is Synereo and I am on the fence as to whether it is is a legit project or a P&D... I am waiting on the sidelines for now. http://www.synereo.com/
I will respond to the rest of your informative post later (as I need to go outside on this Sunday).
I think Synereo may be conceptually on the right track, in that ads should preferrably be content that users want to see. I can envision content providers being creative in how they advertise products within enjoyable content. The bottom line is the economics per my prior post in reply to TechorMarketing. There were one or two ads on Google that were so interesting to me, I wanted to save a copy of the video ad. Meaning the way to beat Google is by making the advertising more efficient, thus superior ROI for all participants (advertiser, content creator, and viewer). If the superior algorithms require decentralization and cutting out the middle man, then Google with all its technical prowess can do nothing to compete.
Spot on!
Quote
I only scanned a portion of their white paper. I believe they may have Sybil attack problems in their attention model (thus being gamed and not having the result intended), but I can't yet judge that with any certainty as I need to study it more carefully.
You've given me something very intellectually deep to chomp on, so thank you. I love conceptual paradigm shifts and I like to analyze models. I will need more time on this.
Looks to me as though they are serious. The devil is in the details on their technical model. They have a brainy looking CSO mathematician, so perhaps some of the model theory is originating from him.
You've given me something very intellectually deep to chomp on, so thank you. I love conceptual paradigm shifts and I like to analyze models. I will need more time on this.
Looks to me as though they are serious. The devil is in the details on their technical model. They have a brainy looking CSO mathematician, so perhaps some of the model theory is originating from him.
The attention model is mine. We've designed it carefully against Sybil attacks. If you think you've identified an attack vector, do let us know -- I'll give you with an AMP bounty for it.
Feel free to join our Slack channel at slack.synereo.com and chat with us there directly.
This is an uncensored thread I never wanted to silence you or anyone else. My comment was not so much about the relevance of the content you were trying link to but the allegation that the Monero community somehow had the influence to get that content removed. I did not see how such an allegation had any relevance to this topic.
In the reply I made upthread, I stated clearly that I could not know that it was any member of Monero's community that was responsible for the archived data disappearing. I stated it could be anyone that was reading the Monero thread and/or reading all my posts. That doesn't implicate Monero. Nevertheless my opinion is the way some Monero community members try to control the discourse on the forums, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted that information gone, which documented that I was making such insights back in 2008 before Satoshi came on the scene. Of course even that wouldn't implicate every Monero community member. A few bad apples does not a community make (yet a few serious flak holes can sink the ship).
There are many anonymous users here in these forums. We don't know who is doing what. We don't know who is funding certain things for certain reasons, which may have more to do with misdirecting the focus on the community than actually ever accomplishing anything for our crypto goals. Cryptonote was created by anonymous people. Even Monero's cryptographer is anonymous. Who created this anonymity that is easily broken by meta-data. I don't know if that is circumspect or just the way the world turns. And frankly I don't care. I only care that the archived data is gone and that crypto is moving too slowly towards realistically large markets. I am not anonymous (just click the AnonyMint link on my signature line).
Thank you for your comments. Same respect back to you.
Edit: I think this thread wants to be about Technology vs. Marketing and I want to discuss more in depth Technology AND Marketing, so I think a new thread is more appropriate. Also I can't tolerate the personal attacks any more (because I am losing too much time explaining about myself...which is irrelevant to my research), so I need to operate from a moderated thread. Hope you understand my reason.
I am just expressing my opinion that the forum doesn't need more Dash vs. Monero threads, but its your prerogative. And I wish I had known from the start that you wanted a Dash vs. Monero focus and you didn't want to allow the thread to mature into an open discussion. If I had known that, I would not have entered this thread in the first place.
As for the Dash vs, Monero soap opera, I have already explained factually in other threads why neither of them are reliable anonymity. If you get enough speculator fools to buy into nonsense, then they will all go around shrilling for their nonsense, and so the entire forum turns into nonsense. Neither Dash nor Monero have any user level adoption nor business adoption and they likely never will (certainly not given the attitudes I've seen displayed by their communities). Face it, you all are here just to gamble and P&D. I am here to find out if we have any serious opportunities for large markets. If there are no valid opportunities, I will soon be gone and finding a valid opportunity so I can earn an income working on something worthwhile.
Any one trusting their activity to be anonymous based on using Dash or Monero, is clueless enough to get themselves in big trouble, which I guess is what they deserve. I've tried to educate readers, and I get a lot of flak for it. I don't see any markets for unreliable anonymity. Sorry.
Sorry I can't agree to not explain how a factual topic I am discussing, can't be linked to because the archived content (which was there since 2008) was suddenly removed. You call that a conspiracy theory, I call that a blatant in our face smoking gun.
I am interested in discussing facts openly, thus I will start another thread. Thank you. No hard feelings. You haven't been disrespectful to me and I haven't been disrespectful to you.
Apologies if I any way impinged on your desired focus for the thread you started. It's better I start a new thread so I can focus on working through the factual analysis I deem to be very important (especially for my decision process on whether I remain in crypto or leave).
As for the Dash vs, Monero soap opera, I have already explained factually in other threads why neither of them are reliable anonymity. If you get enough speculator fools to buy into nonsense, then they will all go around shrilling for their nonsense, and so the entire forum turns into nonsense. Neither Dash nor Monero have any user level adoption nor business adoption and they likely never will (certainly not given the attitudes I've seen displayed by their communities). Face it, you all are here just to gamble and P&D. I am here to find out if we have any serious opportunities for large markets. If there are no valid opportunities, I will soon be gone and finding a valid opportunity so I can earn an income working on something worthwhile.
Any one trusting their activity to be anonymous based on using Dash or Monero, is clueless enough to get themselves in big trouble, which I guess is what they deserve. I've tried to educate readers, and I get a lot of flak for it. I don't see any markets for unreliable anonymity. Sorry.
Sorry I can't agree to not explain how a factual topic I am discussing, can't be linked to because the archived content (which was there since 2008) was suddenly removed. You call that a conspiracy theory, I call that a blatant in our face smoking gun.
I am interested in discussing facts openly, thus I will start another thread. Thank you. No hard feelings. You haven't been disrespectful to me and I haven't been disrespectful to you.
Apologies if I any way impinged on your desired focus for the thread you started. It's better I start a new thread so I can focus on working through the factual analysis I deem to be very important (especially for my decision process on whether I remain in crypto or leave).
You certainly have some great ideas so I sincerely hope you do not leave crypto. This is an uncensored thread I never wanted to silence you or anyone else. My comment was not so much about the relevance of the content you were trying link to but the allegation that the Monero community somehow had the influence to get that content removed. I did not see how such an allegation had any relevance to this topic.
In regards to marketing when do you think your new coin will be ready for launch? Are you working on a whitepaper now? I would like to hear more about your distribution model.
I am just expressing my opinion that the forum doesn't need more Dash vs. Monero threads, but its your prerogative. And I wish I had known from the start that you wanted a Dash vs. Monero focus and you didn't want to allow the thread to mature into an open discussion. If I had known that, I would not have entered this thread in the first place.
As for the Dash vs, Monero soap opera, I have already explained factually in other threads why neither of them are reliable anonymity. If you get enough speculator fools to buy into nonsense, then they will all go around shrilling for their nonsense, and so the entire forum turns into nonsense. Neither Dash nor Monero have any user level adoption nor business adoption and they likely never will (certainly not given the attitudes I've seen displayed by their communities). Face it, you all are here just to gamble and P&D. I am here to find out if we have any serious opportunities for large markets. If there are no valid opportunities, I will soon be gone and finding a valid opportunity so I can earn an income working on something worthwhile.
Any one trusting their activity to be anonymous based on using Dash or Monero, is clueless enough to get themselves in big trouble, which I guess is what they deserve. I've tried to educate readers, and I get a lot of flak for it. I don't see any markets for unreliable anonymity. Sorry.
Sorry I can't agree to not explain how a factual topic I am discussing, can't be linked to because the archived content (which was there since 2008) was suddenly removed. You call that a conspiracy theory, I call that a blatant in our face smoking gun.
I am interested in discussing facts openly, thus I will start another thread. Thank you. No hard feelings. You haven't been disrespectful to me and I haven't been disrespectful to you.
Apologies if I any way impinged on your desired focus for the thread you started. It's better I start a new thread so I can focus on working through the factual analysis I deem to be very important (especially for my decision process on whether I remain in crypto or leave).
As for the Dash vs, Monero soap opera, I have already explained factually in other threads why neither of them are reliable anonymity. If you get enough speculator fools to buy into nonsense, then they will all go around shrilling for their nonsense, and so the entire forum turns into nonsense. Neither Dash nor Monero have any user level adoption nor business adoption and they likely never will (certainly not given the attitudes I've seen displayed by their communities). Face it, you all are here just to gamble and P&D. I am here to find out if we have any serious opportunities for large markets. If there are no valid opportunities, I will soon be gone and finding a valid opportunity so I can earn an income working on something worthwhile.
Any one trusting their activity to be anonymous based on using Dash or Monero, is clueless enough to get themselves in big trouble, which I guess is what they deserve. I've tried to educate readers, and I get a lot of flak for it. I don't see any markets for unreliable anonymity. Sorry.
Sorry I can't agree to not explain how a factual topic I am discussing, can't be linked to because the archived content (which was there since 2008) was suddenly removed. You call that a conspiracy theory, I call that a blatant in our face smoking gun.
I am interested in discussing facts openly, thus I will start another thread. Thank you. No hard feelings. You haven't been disrespectful to me and I haven't been disrespectful to you.
Apologies if I any way impinged on your desired focus for the thread you started. It's better I start a new thread so I can focus on working through the factual analysis I deem to be very important (especially for my decision process on whether I remain in crypto or leave).
But it wasn't made clear that was your only focus and that you would limit discussion to another Monero vs. Dash thread.
You should not invest in either of them (nor any anonymity coin!). They are both fundamentally flawed.
Can we please open the thread to discussion about other possibilities, or do I need to go create another thread for us to have that sort of open discussion?
You should not invest in either of them (nor any anonymity coin!). They are both fundamentally flawed.
Can we please open the thread to discussion about other possibilities, or do I need to go create another thread for us to have that sort of open discussion?
I propose a compromise. I changed the topic title back to its original form.
I ask you that you kindly stick to the topic instead of going on tangents about bittorent forum archive conspiracy theories:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13665862
Is that fair?
But it wasn't made clear that was your only focus and that you would limit discussion to another Monero vs. Dash thread.
You should not invest in either of them (nor any anonymity coin!). They are both fundamentally flawed.
Can we please open the thread to discussion about other possibilities, or do I need to go create another thread for us to have that sort of open discussion?
You should not invest in either of them (nor any anonymity coin!). They are both fundamentally flawed.
Can we please open the thread to discussion about other possibilities, or do I need to go create another thread for us to have that sort of open discussion?
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