Topic: Tesla Bought 1.5 B in Bitcoins - page 2. (Read 2733 times)

It's confusing to talk in dollars. I'd like to see the total overview: how many Bitcoins did they buy for what price, and how many did they sell for what price?
It sounds like Musk follows the "buy high, sell low" strategy

I think those Musk Declaration were an important part of the story:


An important fact to me: according to their slide, I attached to the previous post:


According to their statement:


Tesla would have been negative cash in the quarter if they hadn't sold the Bitcoin Stash.

It looks like Tesla took a decent hit on the sale.

The sale itself is not especially surprising considering that Tesla stopped accepting bitcoin as payment over a year ago, so their current holdings were essentially a speculative investment.

Musk said Tesla will remain open to increasing its bitcoin holdings in the future, and the reason for the sale was to shore up their cash on hand due to issues with lockdowns in China related to Covid.

All good things come to an end: TSLA revealed they sold a substantial part of their Bitcoin Stash.

Electric car maker Tesla (TSLA) sold $936 million worth of bitcoin, or 75% of its holdings, in the second quarter, the company reported Wednesday in its earnings report.

• The company ended the second quarter with just $218 million in bitcoin, down from $1.26 billion in the previous three quarters.
• The company held about 42,000 bitcoin heading into the quarter, so if it sold 75% of that amount for $936 million, that would equate to an average selling price of about $29,000 per bitcoin. Bitcoin ended the second quarter at a price of about $18,700, meaning Tesla avoided a substantial impairment charge on its holdings by selling earlier in the quarter.
• The price of bitcoin fell about 1.7% to $23,300 following the news.
• Tesla announced last February it had purchased $1.5 billion worth of bitcoin, a move that caused the price of bitcoin to surge. Later in Q1, the company trimmed its bitcoin position by 10%, a sale that boosted that quarter’s earnings by $272 million. It had not bought or sold any more bitcoin until the most recent announcement.

From their official Investor deck:

Many times when I re-iterate my list of the three currently valid BTC price prediction models, I am trying to suggest that aspects of these models need to be considered, and surely none of us know exactly where the BTC price is going, but it seems as if some people get worked up about BTC prices moving one direction or another in the short to medium term, but they are hardly at all (if any) accounting for the seemingly underlying bitcoin dynamics that are better accounted for when considering the three models.... and sure, 4-year fractal is already contained in stock to flow, but listing it separately does seem to draw further emphasis to the need to consider the real world implications of that concept.

For sure, historically I have been very critical of some forum members who have gotten too tied up on one BTC price prediction model or another (including the 4-year fractal),  so even if there are price prediction theories that are trying to assert that the cycles are going to get longer or whatever, they better be also attempting to account for real world physicality that is built into bitcoin with the halvening that happens every 4 years.

Another matter kind of trying to tie the models back to this thread, is that surely the actions of BIG players like Tesla or Elon Musk can appear to have short-term impact on the BTC price in terms of both the liquidity and also in terms of positive or negative hype that might come out of whatever is being said, and I also get a bit worked up when too much emphasis might be given to various single theories or even trying to lump in many causes of BTC price movement and say "that is what caused it" blah blah blah.. and sure, at the same time bitcoin is momentum driven to a considerable degree so if DOWNity price movements start they can be exacerbated in terms of both speed DOWN and severity of DOWN by additional factors (whether considered FUD or not).

Tesla and Musk surely do remain a kind of enigma with the contradictory behaviors that cause people to be able to read all kinds of directions and interpretations regarding both their buying BTC and then claiming not to sell anymore than 10% and then making dumb-ass negative proclamations against bitcoin while making positive fantasy assertions about a game coin... so even if some folks might be trying to reign in Musk.. who knows what might be going on behind the scenes, even between Musk and Saylor, and even though we find out about these many happenings, even the fact that Musk and Jack Dorsey have agreed to engage in a public "talk" about bitcoin... and probably ESG, too.

In the short term all kinds of things can happen, and maybe if momentum can be kept in one direction or another or even flat does not necessarily result in the break out going in a direction that might be anticipated, so if any of us own bitcoin or are working on our bitcoin accumulation and/or management, hopefully we are figuring out ways to  prepare ourselves for a variety of price directions, rather than believing that we know for sure what is going to happen.. but at the same time if we prepare ourselves for a variety of price directions while failing/refusing to adequately account for the three BTC price prediction models that I mentioned, we may well not sufficiently understand what is bitcoin.  #justsaying.

I think everyone know how I like stock to flow (and how much I am nervous about market price being so below the model price), but I think this model is different from the others mentioned here, as that model is the only one with substantial stability in their parameters during the years.

If you (not you JJG, I am talking to the casual reader) want to know more about Stock to flow:
Stock-to-Flow Model: Modeling Bitcoin's Value with Scarcity.

Lol, oh was that your point?  Let's go back to the original post and see if we can identify anything there that supports that:


Hmmm, nope. If that was your point, you need to put a lot more effort into your posts instead of just angrily shitposting responses.

Here's a protip for you. If you're sorry about taking the thread off topic, then stop making stupid comments that take the thread off topic, especially when someone isn't responding to you and your only add to the conversation is a bunch of stupid drivel that relates in no way to what anyone was talking about.  Easy fix!

The drive was mostly caused by the post-halving expectation, PayPal's adoption and yeah, Elon Musk had an impact on the further rise too. His post affected bitcoin's price very significantly and caused a massive drop (but I'll mention that it was going to go from 30K to 40K pretty quickly but then it got another hit from China). Then we saw Polygon (Matic) despite the fact that BTC was falling and it happened after Elon's tweets... So yeah, he affected the crypto market but I guess, his influence has lowered a lot, a lot of people blame him for crypto fall and especially his Doge fans.

If you believe that whatever Elon Musk says or does not say drives the bitcoin price in any kind of meaningful way, you are delusional... and don't understand bitcoin, either. 



Talking about bitcoin here, and I could give less than a ratt's ass about other cryptos that are not bitcoin because this thread relates to bitcoin.

Bitcoin has several price prediction models that should be taken into account, at least considering long terms price dynamics which are 1) stock to flow, 2) 4-year fractal and 3) exponential s-curve adoption based on metcalfe principles and networking effects.   Of course, bitcoin is in relatively early stages of adoption so short term it is way more volatile, and likely to continue to be volatile for a decent amount of time based on what it is and can you imagine any kind of largest wealth transfer in the history of man that would not have some levels of battles along the way?

This topic is widely discussed, but still one of the most reliable indicator in crypto is Elon Musk twitter account.
This situation looks absolutely wild for the people who come from the conservative markets like stocks, forex, etc. A single statement of Elon can change the current trend in crypto markets and make minor investors either get rich or go broke.
I don't know whether such status quo will remain for the long period of time but it makes the fundamental analysis in crypto trading important and not as difficult and cumbersome as in forex. Perhaps as the major investors roll around, cryptocurrency markets will be less volatile and predictable. So, that is the best time when crypto traders have some opportunity to predict the price moves.

My point is that if we are in a bitcoin thread, and you are bringing up irrelevant nonsense like doge coin or how elon might feel about such coin as compared with bitcoin, then the burden is on you to prove your various points and how they might relate to the topic of the thread.  I have no such burden, I was just responding to your nonsense irrelevancies, and likely just facilitated more drawing us off topic, so I apologize to anyone for entertaining the nonsesne of such thread hijacking regarding how Elon might or might not feel about doge coin and if it really matters to the topic we are talking about here.

On an individual level we can allocate our portfolios however we want in terms if we want to carry some shitcoins such as doge coin, and if you want to invest in that crap then that is your choice.  My brain is hurting just thinking about such stupid topic of doge coin having much if any value besides being a fun game with proven pumpementals.

Did you respond with anything about bitcoin in your response? Like literally at all? Go back and read it if you’ve already forgotten. You literally only quoted the Doge coin bit and then said absolutely nothing about either bitcoin or Dogecoin in your response. It’d be one thing if your posts were just dumb and not dumb and completely off topic. Ffs, get yourself together.

Like you, I think bitcoin is a poor currency. As a medium of transfer Doge is actually far superior, but that doesn’t make it a good currency either. As a medium of exchange, it’s faster and it’s cheaper; just overall far less clunky. Bitcoin’s obvious advantages as a cryptocurrency though are first mover and more recently institutional adoption to a small extent. It’s definitely better at holding value, as Doge’s inflation is a major problem, but Bitcoin absolutely fails as a store of value, just like every other crypto except maybe Tether, or other stable coins that are pegged to the dollar, but I wouldn’t trust them for other reasons.

I don’t take Elon as being too serious about actually wanting to improve Doge, I view it more as a way to stay in the headlines by continually talking about it. He’s proven to be quite the flake on the subject of crypto so anything he says should be viewed skeptically at this point.

But if I was starting from fiat and wanted to send a fast, cheap transaction to someone on the other side of the world who was going to convert it immediately to their local currency, Doge beats Bitcoin in this instance for the above stated reasons. I soundly use either as a day-to-day currency though because they’re both terrible for different reasons as a currency. Bitcoin is a bad medium of exchange for being slow and expensive and Doge coin is literally a meme coin and can’t be trusted to hold any value to an even worse degree than bitcoin.

Is this not a bitcoin thread?

If you are going to respond to a post that is specifically about what Musk has said about Doge coin, then yeah, you might want to do the minimal amount of research on the topic so don’t come off as such a massive bellend by interjecting dumb comments that have literally nothing to add to the discussion.

I did not realize that this thread or any other bitcoin thread would have required to study up on some stupid-ass nonsense shitcoin in order to participate...   In other words, I have no obligation to study nonsense, and the burden is on you and your other doge coin supporting dweebs whether we are talking about members of the forum or musk or otherwise to establish some kind of assertion that doge coin is better than bitcoin or that elon's supposed preference for doge coin has hardly any relevance to the ways of the world except that he seems to be spouting out nonsense about nonsense.

In other words, I stand by my earlier posts, and there is no reason fpr me to read or look into anything that Musk or anyone else has to say about such shitcoin as doge coin in order for my posts to stand on their own for what points that I had made.  

If there comes some day 5-10 years down the road that miraculously doge coin is starting to supplant bitcoin, then maybe I will decide to look into it and to get into it at that time.. but surely such nonsense has a long-ass way to go to even come close to bitcoin, and does not matter what that dweeb elon or any other supposed doge coin supporter says or does.. but until then you (and the other doge coin distracted folks) are wasting your brain power on such nonsense if you actually have any brain power.

It's cute that you still take the time to post idiotic responses on mine like you're really gonna one up me. Maybe try reading, oh I don't know, anything Musk has written about Doge. I literally parroted what he said about it. If you refuse to educate yourself about the topics before you start sounding off on them, that's on you, but my suggestion would be to stop posting about things you literally have no clue about.  Your head is so far up your own ass you can't even realize we're talking strictly about the tech here.  Maybe go back and re-read the original post you responded to, you obviously didn't understand any of it.

It's almost as if you are creating a strawman argument here because no one has been saying that it is NOT possible to make some coin or various combinations of projects that might even co-opt bitcoin itself in various ways that makes bitcoin better.

The fact of the matter is there may well be a variety of coins and projects that are already better than bitcoin depending upon what it is that might be considered better - but also the fact of the matter is that for any project to overcome the bitcoin is not broken aspect of its functionality they better be at least 10 times better and perhaps even a higher magnitude than that.

In other words, so fucking what if some various coins or projects might be better at x, y and z including the fact that bitcoin may also either be able to incorporate improvements based on such better aspects - if they are actually better in such a way that reaches protocol change consensus.. which is also likely to be a decently sized level of agreement that has to be accomplished in order to be convinced that it is better to actually upgrade bitcoin rather than just leaving it "as is."

Another aspect does potentially allow projects to be linked to bitcoin or to be able to attempt to compete along  side bitcoin in order to potentially show that there is some kind of functionality or feature in bitcoin that might be missing and also suitable to potentially  employ into bitcoin .. were it actually to employ into bitcoin at a later date.. rather than having already missed out on some potential base layer functionality that would have had to have been started in the beginning.


Oh gawd.... 

Yeah sure you have stated a theoretical possibility and probably also put it in its likelihood of success - and would such supposed advancement rise to a high enough level of 10x or more better in order to justify moving over to it.. especially starting to work with such a piece of shit that is just a clone of bitcoin anyhow and then to say it is better than bitcoin.. and then if there are some actual aspects that come out of such vomit inducing project that are actually so much MOAR better, then why wouldn't bitcoin just add those onto its platform... seems like a kind of BIG whatever scenario that you are outlining because a money protocol is likely to converge upon one.. including a following of Gresham's law principles.. so it is difficult to conceive that there would end up being any kind of meaningful split that would suggest that the value is going to gravitate over to doge coin rather than bitcoin.. and probably would take years and years and years to figure out if something is more valuable and by then many of us bitcoin maximalists would have already gravitated over to doge coin, if it happens to be so much better... so who really cares, right? 

If individually we see doge coin as better then we will gravitate to it, or maybe do 50/50 for a while before moving over to it completely... so don't let the door hit you PrimeNumber7 or The Pharmacist on the way out. .. especially since you are the ones going first because you identified the value first... hahahahha  in other words, good luck with that.. you are going to need it... and a lot of it with that fuzzy thinking that you both seem to be employing.. but it is a free world and you have a right to chose to put your value whereever you believe is the greatest... kind of funny because I recall so many stupid twats arguing about bcash abc and later bcash SV as if they were actually adding value, and they were so fucking dumb as to be front row innovators and got out of bitcoin and reckt their dumb-asses by investing in stupid projects with little to no value thinking that value was actually going to gravitate into those dumb projects.

 

again.. good .luck if you believe that there is any kind of meaningful chance.. and even though I would usually suggest that if you believe that the chances are currently 1% to 2% then that is how much value that you should allocate to that piece of crap as compared with bitcoin.. put your money where your beliefs are.... and have fun staying poor, too.

While I do think that bitcoin is far superior to dogecoin or any other altcoin you can name, this is not an absolute. There is always the potential that some altcoin will implement some technology or concept better than bitcoin. With Musk employing very smart and talented engineers to help improve dogecoin, I would say there is a nonzero chance that dogecoin will some day be better than bitcoin on a technical standpoint, although I believe the chances of this is very low, probably less than 2%, or maybe even 1%.

I think Musk primarily promotes dogecoin for egotistical reasons but this doesn’t mean that he won’t be able to make real technical improvements to dogecoin.

Yes.. we can just disagree.. I am not going to waste my time trying to convince anyone that doge coin is not even in the same category as bitcoin, even if there is fun with the gamifying pumpenings of such nonsense of false equivalencies.. so sure go on and believe.. in such nonsense.

As I type, I am thinking a bit of WOW  that maybe I should reiterate that there is also something a wee bit problematic with jaysabi's original presentation of the matter, and if there are various folks who believe that assuming away the sound money component of bitcoin is really getting you anywhere then you likely do not even understand what brings value to bitcoin and holds up this whole "crypto" space.. and that is the sound money component of bitcoin.. so presuming away such sound money component of bitcoin and then saying, let's compare blah blah blah shitcoin to bitcoin after we presumed away the sound money component, is almost pure nonsense..

Think about it.  There would NOT be any shitcoin in the space were it not for bitcoin presenting an atmosphere in which the various shitcoins are even able to operate, whether we are talking about doge coin, ethereum, various scams built on ethereum such as ICOs, Defi, NFTs, the bcashes or whatever other shitcoin money printing variant that you would like to present as if it would be able to survive at all were it not for bitcoin.....

So sure go on and believe in such nonsense that involves making false comparisons after you assume bitcoin to be in the same league as the various shitcoins.. Pretty damned eye-rolling that members in this forum don't even seem to understand what bitcoin is bringing to the table.