Pourquoi le BTC et l'Ether devraient être présentés comme frères ennemies ?
J'espère que tu ne penses pas que c'est mon propos : c'est le contraire que je pense, comme cela semble évident à tous, sauf à ceux qui pour expliquer la baisse d'Ethereum affirment très maladroitement "When BTC goes up, ETH price goes down" 
Topic: Test ethereum - page 47. (Read 113284 times)
Je comprend cette histoire de lien entre btc et eth quand on ne pouvait acheter de l'ether qu'avec du BTC mais maintenant..
ZenFr, tu devrais laisser du temps au temps l'ami car même si tu cherche a comprendre chaque tenant et aboutissant (ce qui est bien quand on investit sur une chose) du projet et de son développement il ne faut pas oublier que les mecs sont dans une certaine forme d'expectative.
Pourquoi le BTC et l'Ether devraient être présentés comme frères ennemies ?
ZenFr, tu devrais laisser du temps au temps l'ami car même si tu cherche a comprendre chaque tenant et aboutissant (ce qui est bien quand on investit sur une chose) du projet et de son développement il ne faut pas oublier que les mecs sont dans une certaine forme d'expectative.
Pourquoi le BTC et l'Ether devraient être présentés comme frères ennemies ?
Je ne voudrais pas rajouter de l'huile sur le feu, mais la citation que tu reprends est une montagne de stupidité.
Ce n'est pas de l'huile rajoutée au feu, mais du feu rajouté à l'huile; car son analyse est bien huilée, contrairement à la tienne qui n'est qu'enflammée.
Avec ce principe, la seule possibilité que Ethereum a de ne pas baisser serait que BTC ne monte pas.
Qui croit que BTC ne va pas monter ? Il a déjà doublé sa valeur depuis août et le consensus est pour une hausse forte d'ici juillet 2016.
Alors, oui, il est arrivé plusieurs fois que Ethereum baisse alors que BTC grimpait fortement et oui, cela est peut-être lié à une partie des spéculateurs qui sont passés de l'un à l'autre pour profiter de la hausse de BTC. Mais c'est à la marge et en aucune façon une règle ou une loi. D'ailleurs, si Ethereum grimpait, personne ne passerait de Ethereum à BTC et BTC grimperait sans que l'on puisse supposer une quelconque incidence sur Ethereum.
Ethereum n'a vraiment pas besoin de ce genre de stupidité et son équipe me déçoit de plus en plus.
Ethereum est un beau projet et mérite le succès, mais pour le moment il ne le rencontre pas et rien ne dit qu'il va le rencontrer un jour, surtout avec ce genre de maladresses.
Je ne voudrais pas rajouter de l'huile sur le feu, mais la citation que tu reprends est une montagne de stupidité.
Ce n'est pas de l'huile rajoutée au feu, mais du feu rajouté à l'huile; car son analyse est bien huilée, contrairement à la tienne qui n'est qu'enflammée.
Quote
Value is falling because:
1 ETH is pretty much considered an alt by most people and is thus pegged against BTC. When BTC goes up, ETH price goes down.
2 Devs with ~11 Million ETH have been selling continuously to survive.
3 Miners have likely been selling to pay bills for new purchased rigs
4 Whale investors may have been selling partially to cover initial investment risk (in fact price has gone up ~300% depending on when one invested in presale).
5 Multi-facet risks, will keep ETH price at bay:
6 Rootstock.io announcement puts ETH at some significant risk from a anybody holding BTC considering to buy ETH. If you can eventually do anything in BTC that you can with ETH, then that's a blow. Yes you can argue all kinds of ways how rootstock or BTC varients will never achieve what ETH can, but from a speculative/investment perspective it is too early to be that confident.
7 Ethereum Foundation running out of money much earlier (50% of time) than anticipated, I feel is a significant blow to ETH's price for now, as despite Vitalik's blog post on cutting costs, focusing on core and natural tendendcy for devs to start business'; let's face it, if any startup had 50% of its funding taken away, it's likelihood of ultimate success could be seriously hindered.
8 Too young - ETH is still too young and not well proven. At any time, some unforseen security risk could seriously impact it. You can't really say that re: BTC, it's been around for 5+ years, ETH ~5 months. There's no comparison. Perhaps after ~2+ years post go-live, if ETH is still around this risk should be considered lower, but look at any other turing complete system, like oh I don't know ... windows... major bugs galore even 20 years after the fact.
9 PoS uncertainty - The dev team has done an excellent job of coming up with a PoW that can't easily be ASIC'ed, although it's arguably still to early to celebrate that. The challenge with the PoW is that after 2-3 years, it's likely GPUs may not be able to properly mine it (fast block chains + too large a block chain = insufficient cycles to mine block) and PoS or worst case some other PoW is inevitable. PoS in general, for reasons above my current understanding, is not generally accepted as a long-term viable solution, thus Ethereum team has some real scientific challenges to overcome and prove, and limited time to do so. Uncertainty around this issue alone could keep ETH price relatively low.
Biggest factors that will trigger a rise:
1 CHINA - if ETH ever gets added to a Chinese exchange like OKCoin, Huobi or BTCChina, the value will skyrocket 5x to 10x in a very short time
2 Non-China Tier1 exchanges: ETH is still only tradeable on second rate exchanges with Poloniex being the biggest one. Poloniex doesn't even accept USD deposits to purchase crypto, so this keeps ETH tied to BTC price. If ETH ever gets added to Tier 1 non-China Exchange like: Bitstamp, Bitfinex, BTC-E etc, the value should start rising fairly quickly, but still nothing compared to a Chinese exchange.
3 Overall userbase - Let's face it, there are 6,700 readers in /r/Ethereum and some 180,000 in /r/bitcoin. That right there gives you a 28:1 ratio of BTC to ETH userbase. So at $412 BTC, that should put ETH at ~$14.7 right? Yes, but that doesn't include BTC china users whom probably 98% don't even read r/bitcoin.
4 Time factor - What was Bitcoin worth 4-6 months after its 2009 launch by comparison... 5-10 cents? Even if we say ETH should benefit from acceleration curve and is growing at 5x BTC rate, that still only puts the rough value at 50 cents... but 1 year from now, it could be 10x that at that acceleration rate.
5 Utility - ETH needs a killer app as somebody already mentioned. Slock.it is cool, but 24 hours after you stop drooling, you may realize that in the real world, it may not be that practical yet and even such systems that slock.it can target could easily take 1-2 years to start getting noticed by any significant audience.
6 Industry adoption - This is kind of a derivative of userbase and utility, but for example, if FinTech/R3 decides to go with Ethereum for even a private #blockchain, that ultimately also translates to Ethereum being good enough for other major players, which means its good enough for many other things. So ultimately confidence sign-off by any major industry would make a huge difference. Another is IoT itself, like the recent Slock.it example, but more specifically if Samsung/IBM or some other IETF equivalent group adopts it.
7 User Friendly soft & hard wallets - Let's face it, if you want non-geek audience to adopt ETH, well then you can't just have linux CLI wallets. Basic functions need to mature to be more easily used by wider audience.
8 Deliver on Promises - Vitalik/Gavin had some very ambitious plans, for the most part their targets are being realized but at a much slower pace than initially anticipated. Continuous delivery on original promises should help price rise, but time to deliver is also a factor. This is in fact a significant issue.
9 Speed of innovation - This is critical. Crypto competition is fierce. If BTC = Gopher, is ETH Altavista or Google? If Ethereum's claim that it can do anything any other alt-coin can do because of turing completeness that's great, but who knows what Crypto 3.0 will look like. At some point we'll go from 2.0 to 3.0 - whatever that may mean, but it's entirely likely Ethereum will one day be considered an older generation crypto.
When BTC goes up, ETH price goes down.
C'est bien ce que je disais. Donc, encore une fois, j'ai raison et le pseudosayan a tort.
Parmi ces stupidités qui ne résistent pas à un analyse critique minimaliste (désolé, je ne la ferai pas ici), il y a le "When BTC goes up, ETH price goes down."
Comme aucun acteur des cryptocurrencies ne peut sérieusement douter de la montée du BTC, ce que l'équipe d'Ethereum affirme, en voulant trouver une excuse à la baisse d'Etherreum, c'est que Ethereum est condamné à baisser tant que BTC monte, or BTC est voué à monter quasiment indéfiniment, en tout cas pendant plusieurs années et en particulier entre maintenant et le halving de juillet 2016 !
De toute façon, si BTC ne montait pas, il n'y a aucune chance que Ethereum ou une autre crypto puisse arriver à faire ce qu'il aurait échoué à faire.
Quote
Value is falling because:
1 ETH is pretty much considered an alt by most people and is thus pegged against BTC. When BTC goes up, ETH price goes down.
2 Devs with ~11 Million ETH have been selling continuously to survive.
3 Miners have likely been selling to pay bills for new purchased rigs
4 Whale investors may have been selling partially to cover initial investment risk (in fact price has gone up ~300% depending on when one invested in presale).
5 Multi-facet risks, will keep ETH price at bay:
6 Rootstock.io announcement puts ETH at some significant risk from a anybody holding BTC considering to buy ETH. If you can eventually do anything in BTC that you can with ETH, then that's a blow. Yes you can argue all kinds of ways how rootstock or BTC varients will never achieve what ETH can, but from a speculative/investment perspective it is too early to be that confident.
7 Ethereum Foundation running out of money much earlier (50% of time) than anticipated, I feel is a significant blow to ETH's price for now, as despite Vitalik's blog post on cutting costs, focusing on core and natural tendendcy for devs to start business'; let's face it, if any startup had 50% of its funding taken away, it's likelihood of ultimate success could be seriously hindered.
8 Too young - ETH is still too young and not well proven. At any time, some unforseen security risk could seriously impact it. You can't really say that re: BTC, it's been around for 5+ years, ETH ~5 months. There's no comparison. Perhaps after ~2+ years post go-live, if ETH is still around this risk should be considered lower, but look at any other turing complete system, like oh I don't know ... windows... major bugs galore even 20 years after the fact.
9 PoS uncertainty - The dev team has done an excellent job of coming up with a PoW that can't easily be ASIC'ed, although it's arguably still to early to celebrate that. The challenge with the PoW is that after 2-3 years, it's likely GPUs may not be able to properly mine it (fast block chains + too large a block chain = insufficient cycles to mine block) and PoS or worst case some other PoW is inevitable. PoS in general, for reasons above my current understanding, is not generally accepted as a long-term viable solution, thus Ethereum team has some real scientific challenges to overcome and prove, and limited time to do so. Uncertainty around this issue alone could keep ETH price relatively low.
Biggest factors that will trigger a rise:
1 CHINA - if ETH ever gets added to a Chinese exchange like OKCoin, Huobi or BTCChina, the value will skyrocket 5x to 10x in a very short time
2 Non-China Tier1 exchanges: ETH is still only tradeable on second rate exchanges with Poloniex being the biggest one. Poloniex doesn't even accept USD deposits to purchase crypto, so this keeps ETH tied to BTC price. If ETH ever gets added to Tier 1 non-China Exchange like: Bitstamp, Bitfinex, BTC-E etc, the value should start rising fairly quickly, but still nothing compared to a Chinese exchange.
3 Overall userbase - Let's face it, there are 6,700 readers in /r/Ethereum and some 180,000 in /r/bitcoin. That right there gives you a 28:1 ratio of BTC to ETH userbase. So at $412 BTC, that should put ETH at ~$14.7 right? Yes, but that doesn't include BTC china users whom probably 98% don't even read r/bitcoin.
4 Time factor - What was Bitcoin worth 4-6 months after its 2009 launch by comparison... 5-10 cents? Even if we say ETH should benefit from acceleration curve and is growing at 5x BTC rate, that still only puts the rough value at 50 cents... but 1 year from now, it could be 10x that at that acceleration rate.
5 Utility - ETH needs a killer app as somebody already mentioned. Slock.it is cool, but 24 hours after you stop drooling, you may realize that in the real world, it may not be that practical yet and even such systems that slock.it can target could easily take 1-2 years to start getting noticed by any significant audience.
6 Industry adoption - This is kind of a derivative of userbase and utility, but for example, if FinTech/R3 decides to go with Ethereum for even a private #blockchain, that ultimately also translates to Ethereum being good enough for other major players, which means its good enough for many other things. So ultimately confidence sign-off by any major industry would make a huge difference. Another is IoT itself, like the recent Slock.it example, but more specifically if Samsung/IBM or some other IETF equivalent group adopts it.
7 User Friendly soft & hard wallets - Let's face it, if you want non-geek audience to adopt ETH, well then you can't just have linux CLI wallets. Basic functions need to mature to be more easily used by wider audience.
8 Deliver on Promises - Vitalik/Gavin had some very ambitious plans, for the most part their targets are being realized but at a much slower pace than initially anticipated. Continuous delivery on original promises should help price rise, but time to deliver is also a factor. This is in fact a significant issue.
9 Speed of innovation - This is critical. Crypto competition is fierce. If BTC = Gopher, is ETH Altavista or Google? If Ethereum's claim that it can do anything any other alt-coin can do because of turing completeness that's great, but who knows what Crypto 3.0 will look like. At some point we'll go from 2.0 to 3.0 - whatever that may mean, but it's entirely likely Ethereum will one day be considered an older generation crypto.
When BTC goes up, ETH price goes down.
C'est bien ce que je disais. Donc, encore une fois, j'ai raison et le pseudosayan a tort.
Si certains se demandent pourquoi une poussée subite, c'est qu' Ether court souvent en sens opposé au Bitcoin. Le Bitcoin a lâché 10% cette nuit.
La majorité des altcoins suit un cours opposé à celui du bitcoin depuis un bon moment. Ethereum n'est pas une exception sur ce point.
Oui, mais Ether est plus sensible à ces changements de direction.
Si certains se demandent pourquoi une poussée subite, c'est qu' Ether court souvent en sens opposé au Bitcoin. Le Bitcoin a lâché 10% cette nuit.
La majorité des altcoins suit un cours opposé à celui du bitcoin depuis un bon moment. Ethereum n'est pas une exception sur ce point.
Si certains se demandent pourquoi une poussée subite, c'est qu' Ether court souvent en sens opposé au Bitcoin. Le Bitcoin a lâché 10% cette nuit.
Yep Yep j en ai acheté !!!! 
Une excellente nouvelle de la part d'UBS !!!! 
http://www.theasset.com/treasury/30521/-ubs-experiments-with-blockchain
Hypolite.
http://www.theasset.com/treasury/30521/-ubs-experiments-with-blockchain
Hypolite.
Quote
Value is falling because:
1 ETH is pretty much considered an alt by most people and is thus pegged against BTC. When BTC goes up, ETH price goes down.
2 Devs with ~11 Million ETH have been selling continuously to survive.
3 Miners have likely been selling to pay bills for new purchased rigs
4 Whale investors may have been selling partially to cover initial investment risk (in fact price has gone up ~300% depending on when one invested in presale).
5 Multi-facet risks, will keep ETH price at bay:
6 Rootstock.io announcement puts ETH at some significant risk from a anybody holding BTC considering to buy ETH. If you can eventually do anything in BTC that you can with ETH, then that's a blow. Yes you can argue all kinds of ways how rootstock or BTC varients will never achieve what ETH can, but from a speculative/investment perspective it is too early to be that confident.
7 Ethereum Foundation running out of money much earlier (50% of time) than anticipated, I feel is a significant blow to ETH's price for now, as despite Vitalik's blog post on cutting costs, focusing on core and natural tendendcy for devs to start business'; let's face it, if any startup had 50% of its funding taken away, it's likelihood of ultimate success could be seriously hindered.
8 Too young - ETH is still too young and not well proven. At any time, some unforseen security risk could seriously impact it. You can't really say that re: BTC, it's been around for 5+ years, ETH ~5 months. There's no comparison. Perhaps after ~2+ years post go-live, if ETH is still around this risk should be considered lower, but look at any other turing complete system, like oh I don't know ... windows... major bugs galore even 20 years after the fact.
9 PoS uncertainty - The dev team has done an excellent job of coming up with a PoW that can't easily be ASIC'ed, although it's arguably still to early to celebrate that. The challenge with the PoW is that after 2-3 years, it's likely GPUs may not be able to properly mine it (fast block chains + too large a block chain = insufficient cycles to mine block) and PoS or worst case some other PoW is inevitable. PoS in general, for reasons above my current understanding, is not generally accepted as a long-term viable solution, thus Ethereum team has some real scientific challenges to overcome and prove, and limited time to do so. Uncertainty around this issue alone could keep ETH price relatively low.
Biggest factors that will trigger a rise:
1 CHINA - if ETH ever gets added to a Chinese exchange like OKCoin, Huobi or BTCChina, the value will skyrocket 5x to 10x in a very short time
2 Non-China Tier1 exchanges: ETH is still only tradeable on second rate exchanges with Poloniex being the biggest one. Poloniex doesn't even accept USD deposits to purchase crypto, so this keeps ETH tied to BTC price. If ETH ever gets added to Tier 1 non-China Exchange like: Bitstamp, Bitfinex, BTC-E etc, the value should start rising fairly quickly, but still nothing compared to a Chinese exchange.
3 Overall userbase - Let's face it, there are 6,700 readers in /r/Ethereum and some 180,000 in /r/bitcoin. That right there gives you a 28:1 ratio of BTC to ETH userbase. So at $412 BTC, that should put ETH at ~$14.7 right? Yes, but that doesn't include BTC china users whom probably 98% don't even read r/bitcoin.
4 Time factor - What was Bitcoin worth 4-6 months after its 2009 launch by comparison... 5-10 cents? Even if we say ETH should benefit from acceleration curve and is growing at 5x BTC rate, that still only puts the rough value at 50 cents... but 1 year from now, it could be 10x that at that acceleration rate.
5 Utility - ETH needs a killer app as somebody already mentioned. Slock.it is cool, but 24 hours after you stop drooling, you may realize that in the real world, it may not be that practical yet and even such systems that slock.it can target could easily take 1-2 years to start getting noticed by any significant audience.
6 Industry adoption - This is kind of a derivative of userbase and utility, but for example, if FinTech/R3 decides to go with Ethereum for even a private #blockchain, that ultimately also translates to Ethereum being good enough for other major players, which means its good enough for many other things. So ultimately confidence sign-off by any major industry would make a huge difference. Another is IoT itself, like the recent Slock.it example, but more specifically if Samsung/IBM or some other IETF equivalent group adopts it.
7 User Friendly soft & hard wallets - Let's face it, if you want non-geek audience to adopt ETH, well then you can't just have linux CLI wallets. Basic functions need to mature to be more easily used by wider audience.
8 Deliver on Promises - Vitalik/Gavin had some very ambitious plans, for the most part their targets are being realized but at a much slower pace than initially anticipated. Continuous delivery on original promises should help price rise, but time to deliver is also a factor. This is in fact a significant issue.
9 Speed of innovation - This is critical. Crypto competition is fierce. If BTC = Gopher, is ETH Altavista or Google? If Ethereum's claim that it can do anything any other alt-coin can do because of turing completeness that's great, but who knows what Crypto 3.0 will look like. At some point we'll go from 2.0 to 3.0 - whatever that may mean, but it's entirely likely Ethereum will one day be considered an older generation crypto.
En acheter en ce moment n'est pas mauvais, puisqu'en effet, il remontera; il y a tout de même pas mal de semaines avant Homestead, durant lesquelles on pourrait voir un cours qui teste les 100k sats. Il est actuellement à près de 70 centimes d'euro; je dirais donc qu'en-dessous de 60 cents serait une très bonne affaire. Attendre un peu, c'est mieux.
Pour ma part, je pense justement que c'est le bon moment pour en acheter quelques poignées !!! Son prix est bas et ne peut que monter ( du moins c'est le fond de ma pensée ).
Hypolite
Hypolite
Je pense que quand le BTC aura fini son pump&dump on pourra racheter de l'Ether mais la en ce moment je pense pas que ce soit le meilleur des moments
Ce que Zen a du mal à capter...
...feront démentir les inconscients comme Zen.
Abou, je te trouve bien présomptueux et peu respectueux de l'avis des autres....feront démentir les inconscients comme Zen.
C'est comme si je disais que les religions, pour lesquelles tu semble afficher une croyance active, ne sont que supercheries pour faire accepter l'inacceptable aux plus simples d'esprits...
Je suis peut-être un peu susceptible sur ce coup et j'en suis désolé, mais ce forum me semble loin d'être apaisé et je suis donc méfiant (cf. Sangoku).
Revenons à Ethereum : il est passé à 185 kSat cette nuit : ceux qui aurient eu la prudence de vendre de à 200 auraient donc pu faire une belle plus-value en quelques heures : je ne sais pas ce que je n'ai pas compris, mais là les faits me donnent raison.
Mais loin de moi de croire que je comprends tout, bien au contraire.
Par exemple si Ethereum baisse quand btc grimpe, comme Djinou94 le rappelle et comme nous l'avons déjà constaté plusieurs fois, cela signifierait que Ethereum est condamné à baisser car, à priori, nous croyons tous ici à la hausse du btc.
Je ne reviens pas sur le calendrier de Ethereum qui est plublic, donc son incidence (homestead) sur le cours est intégré dans le cours actuel : je ne nie pas que chaque cap pourra être un prétexte pour un soubresaut, mais difficile de croire à plus.
Mais je n'ai pas tout compris, j'en suis bien conscient et je demande à ceux qui auront compris plus ou différemment de me dire, par exemple, quel sera le signal pour (ra)acheter Ethereum avec un risque minimal de pertes pour parvenir à un cours intéressant (et là je ne parle pas de soubresaut mais de véritable pump qui devrait donner à Ethereum une valeur correspondant à son ambition, je pense à plusieurs millions e satoshis).
C'est-à-dire que je me suis basé sur le pourcentage d'achèvement par rapport au temps que cela a pris. Si, depuis Frontier, Homestead est à 66% complet, je pense qu'il faut encore deux mois. Vitalik lui-même n'apporte pas de certitude. Espérons que je me trompe.
2 mois en comptant le retard?
Vitalik annonce fin déc possible https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3tbwbo/planned_homestead_hard_fork_changes/
Vitalik annonce fin déc possible https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3tbwbo/planned_homestead_hard_fork_changes/
Ce que Zen a du mal à capter, c'est la stratégie des traders: l'art d'être où l'on ne t'attend pas.
Le cours en octobre était tombé à 150k sats; ensuite, il est remonté à plus de 400k. Pendant que le cours s'effondrait, et que les ragots allaient bon train, les traders préparaient le combustible: Nick Szabo, Microsoft, etc.
Alors que beaucoup s'attendaient à un pump durant la Devcon, il ne s'est rien produit.
Maintenant que nous sommes à deux mois de Homestead, ils laissent le cours piquer. Ils réapparaîtront sous peu, et feront démentir les inconscients comme Zen.
https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/milestones
Le cours en octobre était tombé à 150k sats; ensuite, il est remonté à plus de 400k. Pendant que le cours s'effondrait, et que les ragots allaient bon train, les traders préparaient le combustible: Nick Szabo, Microsoft, etc.
Alors que beaucoup s'attendaient à un pump durant la Devcon, il ne s'est rien produit.
Maintenant que nous sommes à deux mois de Homestead, ils laissent le cours piquer. Ils réapparaîtront sous peu, et feront démentir les inconscients comme Zen.
https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/milestones
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