Topic: The 21 Bitcoin Computer - page 11. (Read 11856 times)
wow,,,that's a cool device
$400 seems a little expensive for a modded RPi2?
also, can you buy this thing with bitcoin? no? well...
also, can you buy this thing with bitcoin? no? well...
Raspberri pi: $35
63 GH/s antminer U3: $20
128GB SD card: $25
wifi dongle $10
total hardware: $90
21 microcomputer $400.00???
$400 seems a little expensive for a modded RPi2?
also, can you buy this thing with bitcoin? no? well...
also, can you buy this thing with bitcoin? no? well...
21 is promoting paying for content directly as opposed to ad-supported content. That is roughly analogous to broadcast TV vs. cable. It's a different business model, but one that can only be done with microtransactions. To continue the metaphor, it would be like paying for cable every time you changed the channel instead of a monthly bill. Currently, that cost is supported primarily by the block subsidy, and runs at about 65 kWh per transaction. (300 MW mining network, 1.27 transactions per second.) That's about $4 per transaction. Also, at the current 7 TPS (or less) transaction limit, There couldn't possibly be more than a thousand users of this premium internet before it bogs down and takes our entire network with it.
Weirdly, 21 publicly supports BIP100, the proposal to increase blocksize and therefor transaction capacity only when a majority of mining votes to do so. Why? The only logical explanation is that they expect to dominate mining and vote to increase blocksize FASTER than BIP101 would automatically increase it!
Weirdly, 21 publicly supports BIP100, the proposal to increase blocksize and therefor transaction capacity only when a majority of mining votes to do so. Why? The only logical explanation is that they expect to dominate mining and vote to increase blocksize FASTER than BIP101 would automatically increase it!
Here are the benefits that 21 claim:
Micropayments means sending small amounts of money. Mining a small amount of money does not make it any easier to send a small amount of money.
Parallel or not, it makes little economic sense for a device to mine bitcoins in addition to its normal function.
Sending bitcoins from an address is an inefficient and outmoded method of authentication. It is cheaper and more effective to sign something other than a bitcoin transaction. Either way, it doesn't require mining.
Mining is not necessary to monitor the block chain.
There are simpler and more cost effective methods for devices to pay for services and subscriptions, and they don't involve mining. Furthermore, the device will eventually not be able to mine enough bitcoins to pay for the service. Then what happens?
It is hard to see how the device can effectively subsidize its own cost plus the cost of a cell phone at the rate of a couple dollars per month.
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A new approach to micropayments.
Micropayments means sending small amounts of money. Mining a small amount of money does not make it any easier to send a small amount of money.
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Silicon-as-a-service.
Parallel or not, it makes little economic sense for a device to mine bitcoins in addition to its normal function.
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Decentralized device authentication.
Sending bitcoins from an address is an inefficient and outmoded method of authentication. It is cheaper and more effective to sign something other than a bitcoin transaction. Either way, it doesn't require mining.
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Machine Twitter.
Mining is not necessary to monitor the block chain.
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Devices that can pay for associated services.
Devices that can pay your channel partners.
Devices that can pay your channel partners.
There are simpler and more cost effective methods for devices to pay for services and subscriptions, and they don't involve mining. Furthermore, the device will eventually not be able to mine enough bitcoins to pay for the service. Then what happens?
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Bitcoin-subsidized devices for the developing world.
It is hard to see how the device can effectively subsidize its own cost plus the cost of a cell phone at the rate of a couple dollars per month.
I have never really understood the ambitious idea of 21 Inc. After seeing this I'm more confused. It does not fit into any practical use I can think of... A freelance market for developers? Who is going to buy those software/app? Another guy having same 21 bitcoin computer? 
Micro payment is a dead end, many enterprises have tried and gave up in favor of bulk rate charge model
Micro payment is a dead end, many enterprises have tried and gave up in favor of bulk rate charge model
The main question is: Does it fork? Will it be able to withstand a hard-fork?
This should be read twice by the people thinking about ROI.
Will it be able to withstand a hard-fork?By mining on their pool, with their device, your tx will always have high priority against all other tx from others users.
You have paid for this, and you will maintaining the pool and then the priority.
You have paid for this, and you will maintaining the pool and then the priority.
This should be read twice by the people thinking about ROI.
little machines autonomously making money online, is this the beginnings of skynet?
Buy 21 bitcoins or die!
Buy 21 bitcoins or die!
How about connecting it to a vending machine?
If it had a qr scanner it could accept bitcoin payments and pay for its own supplies and electricity.
PS- who else hates spell correctors that type "Bitcoin" when you mean "bitcoin?"
If it had a qr scanner it could accept bitcoin payments and pay for its own supplies and electricity.
PS- who else hates spell correctors that type "Bitcoin" when you mean "bitcoin?"
BTW, the 21 inc computer is for pre-order at the moment...
Personally, I have a bit of strange feeling about the term "pre-order" in bitcoin mining world...
Personally, I have a bit of strange feeling about the term "pre-order" in bitcoin mining world...
We're not talking about Butterfly labs here....
BTW, the 21 inc computer is for pre-order at the moment...
Personally, I have a bit of strange feeling about the term "pre-order" in bitcoin mining world...
Personally, I have a bit of strange feeling about the term "pre-order" in bitcoin mining world...
Exactly, and more importantly: you likely won't have to pay for transactions fees.
And wait several hours to get your transaction included into a rare 21inc block?
They're currently mining 3-4 blocks a day. Enough to regularly settle millions of microtransactions on chain. Think of it like a payment channel maybe?
Moreover, if they succeed in their plan to embed mining chips into every internet connected devices I can imagine that could eventually considerably increase their share of the mining market.
Then you dont know what the fuck the mining cost is.
You think running this device is free?
The point is not about having breakeven point, anyone with half brain already know home mining is long gone. The point is the operating COST of this device.
Whats stopping spamming attack on their mining network if what you "described" is their actual service?
You sound dumber every posts.
I wonder where the targeted markets and customers are for this product. So far, I have seen here people said it was an interesting product, but no one said that he would buy one. It seems everyone is hoping someone else but himself will buy it.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're their own target market (through a subsidiary co, partner, investor company (possibly with overlapping ownership)). More to the point, it's very possible this device will be part of another device, system, or service not yet made public (possibly through a subsidiary or related entity, partner, etc). By analogy, think about how those Solar City pv panels fit nicely w/ those Tesla batteries for your auto and home, and how SC and T's innovations in PV and energy storage will give them opportunities to meet all kinds of SpaceX client needs in the future (energy generation, energy storage, battery operated autonomous vehicles, software for all this stuff, etc.). Musk's multi-pronged operation demands its own factories (spare part demand alone may justify it). Given the folks behind 21 as well as the published funding amounts, its probably not unreasonable to think that 21 is up to a lot more than what has been made public today.
I wonder where the targeted markets and customers are for this product. So far, I have seen here people said it was an interesting product, but no one said that he would buy one. It seems everyone is hoping someone else but himself will buy it.
I never said it was effectively helping the network. But it is helping. Not very well, but helping.
Sure ... greater hash power makes bitcoin more secure. I'm just suggesting you already have options that both help bitcoin and yourself more.
Yes, full nodes are good too, but I still think this is a good way to support the network, albeit an expensive one.
Only if these miners mined on a p2p pool or solo-mined and encouraged decentralization of mining. It seems to be that it will merely grow one of the large mining pools however and one of the pools that people cannot direct their hashing power away from unlike some of the others.
If you simply wanted to hash to support the network you would be better off buying an s7 and mining yourself on p2p pool and possibly breaking even and turning a profit (provided cheap electricity) rather than only making back 20% of your investment (assuming free electric with 21)
Yes, full nodes are good too, but I still think this is a good way to support the network, albeit an expensive one.
Only if these miners mined on a p2p pool or solo-mined and encouraged decentralization of mining. It seems to be that it will merely grow one of the large mining pools however and one of the pools that people cannot direct their hashing power away from unlike some of the others.
If you simply wanted to hash to support the network you would be better off buying an s7 and mining yourself on p2p pool and possibly breaking even and turning a profit (provided cheap electricity) rather than only making back 20% of your investment (assuming free electric with 21)
That's not the point, if you have read the article and can't see how a whole range of engineers and developers would be interested in the capacities of such a setup then there's really not much I can do to help you figure it out.
If your question is whether random joe and his buddies should be buying this device then obviously the answer is no.
IT IS NOT A CONSUMER DEVICE
The point is I don't see much use for this device for developers either. We all own rasberry pi's and can code and tinker without this. Perhaps their is some use for this device... but they are doing a horrible job of clarifying it.
It isn't about breaking even by using the hashing power as a revenue model.
https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821
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Some might ask why a device engineer would desire such a thing. Isn’t the purpose of bitcoin mining simply to get rich — or not, as the case may be? Well, at 21 we are less concerned with bitcoin as a financial instrument and more interested in bitcoin as a protocol — and particularly in the industrial uses of bitcoin enabled by embedded mining.
https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821
That's all fine and well... but you are discussing the future and we are discussing this product and whether people should buy it or not.
There are better ways to be altruistic to support the bitcoin ecosystem if that is what you are implying.
That's not the point, if you have read the article and can't see how a whole range of engineers and developers would be interested in the capacities of such a setup then there's really not much I can do to help you figure it out.
If your question is whether random joe and his buddies should be buying this device then obviously the answer is no.
IT IS NOT A CONSUMER DEVICE
It isn't about breaking even by using the hashing power as a revenue model.
https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821
Quote
Some might ask why a device engineer would desire such a thing. Isn’t the purpose of bitcoin mining simply to get rich — or not, as the case may be? Well, at 21 we are less concerned with bitcoin as a financial instrument and more interested in bitcoin as a protocol — and particularly in the industrial uses of bitcoin enabled by embedded mining.
https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821
That's all fine and well... but you are discussing the future and we are discussing this product and whether people should buy it or not.
There are better ways to be altruistic to support the bitcoin ecosystem if that is what you are implying.
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