The 21 Bitcoin Computer - page 13. | Bitcointalksearch.org

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: BitUsher on September 21, 2015, 06:58:16 PM

Quote from: TheRealSteve on September 21, 2015, 06:51:58 PM

The mining chip in all of this still doesn't make any sense, though

Neither the rasberry Pi hardware... why not simply release a marketplace which allows decentralized micropayments that eventually hit the blockchain?

It only makes sense if we assume that the mining chip allows people to get bitcoin without the hassle of buying it and their objective is to grow and strengthen the bitcoin ecosystem by decentralizing mining and increasing node count. Remember alot of these investors are bitcoin bagholders too and are probably concerned about the centralization of mining and node drop off...

That's the point.

The device as it stand is a pilot, eventually the mining chips will be embedded right into your computer's motherboard.

Mikestang

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It's also funny that you can't buy it with bitcoin (yet...) because they don't think bitcoin should be used for purchases like this. Huh

Someone give me 50 million dollars, I can come up with terrible ideas all day long for half the price of these guys.

BitUsher

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Quote from: TheRealSteve on September 21, 2015, 06:51:58 PM

The mining chip in all of this still doesn't make any sense, though

Neither the rasberry Pi hardware... why not simply release a marketplace which allows decentralized micropayments that eventually hit the blockchain?

It only makes sense if we assume that the mining chip allows people to get bitcoin without the hassle of buying it and their objective is to grow and strengthen the bitcoin ecosystem by decentralizing mining and increasing node count. Remember alot of these investors are bitcoin bagholders too and are probably concerned about the centralization of mining and node drop off...

TheRealSteve

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FUN > ROI

Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:48:47 PM

By participating hashing power to 21inc mining pool (as negligible as it could be) they will aggregate all of their embedded chips and Bitcoin computer devices micropayments and include them into blocks they mine.

More specifically.. if a good chunk of those who you'd be exchanging micropayments with - i.e. the device-to-device communication and payment settlement idea - are via their (or a compatible) platform... they don't need to include micropayments into any block at all. They can just do what every online wallet/exchange, changetip, etc. does and settle payments internally, and only deal with the block chain when payments go to / come from external services. E.g. your device wants data from another device 10 times per day at 1 token (equivalent to 1 satoshi, for argument's sake) per request.. no problem, device A can sign messages from device B to supply device B with proof that device A owes device B the n tokens and when whoever owns device B wants a whole bunch of these tokens paid out in actual Bitcoin (or fiat or whatever), their platform can grab the equivalent worth of tokens from whatever was mined and put that on the blockchain as needed.

The mining chip in all of this still doesn't make any sense, though

BitUsher

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I ignored him long ago when he started on the block size debate, it was so obvious with his stupid signature.

Yes, we all ignored him already , but both of you are forcing all of us who ignored him to read his idiocy by quoting him.

Hopefully 21 reads this thread and clarifies their caching micropayments layer so we have a reason to be excited about this product(or at least steals this idea and runs with it ) because as it stands now it is pointless as marketed.

http://www.coindesk.com/21-inc-bitcoin-computer-developers/

Still sounds like they are throwing it out there with a CLI and API and hoping others figure it out.

"Horowitz suggested it's not immediately clear what the 21 Bitcoin
Computer would allow developers to build, but he strived to point out
the similarities between it and early web browsers."

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: meono on September 21, 2015, 06:02:15 PM

Quote from: BitUsher on September 21, 2015, 05:54:36 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:48:47 PM

There are reasons why that is not possible and that would be a hack anyway.

By participating hashing power to 21inc mining pool (as negligible as it could be) they will aggregate all of their embedded chips and Bitcoin computer devices micropayments and include them into blocks they mine.

If that is the case , that is a creative solution that also allows bitcoin to scale more (If and only if the process is decentralized and acting like a caching layer). They are really horrible about explaining this simple idea in their marketing I do say.

Nope it does not work at all. Its like having a webserver at your home so you can host your own cheap websites.

Think about it.

The economical method is to offer services to dust tx at a fixed monthly fee. ..... tada.... webhosting service..... lol

fuck off you troll.

meono

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Quote from: BitUsher on September 21, 2015, 05:54:36 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:48:47 PM

There are reasons why that is not possible and that would be a hack anyway.

By participating hashing power to 21inc mining pool (as negligible as it could be) they will aggregate all of their embedded chips and Bitcoin computer devices micropayments and include them into blocks they mine.

If that is the case , that is a creative solution that also allows bitcoin to scale more (If and only if the process is decentralized and acting like a caching layer). They are really horrible about explaining this simple idea in their marketing I do say.

Nope it does not work at all. Its like having a webserver at your home so you can host your own cheap websites.

Think about it.

The economical method is to offer services to dust tx at a fixed monthly fee. ..... tada.... webhosting service..... lol

BitUsher

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Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:48:47 PM

There are reasons why that is not possible and that would be a hack anyway.

By participating hashing power to 21inc mining pool (as negligible as it could be) they will aggregate all of their embedded chips and Bitcoin computer devices micropayments and include them into blocks they mine.

If that is the case , that is a creative solution that also allows bitcoin to scale more (If and only if the process is decentralized and acting like a caching layer). They are really horrible about explaining this simple idea in their marketing I do say.

Case use ... You are a songwriter and manage to convince 5% of the bitcoin users to buy your song for 1 penny in btc each allowing you to earn 2k in profit tax and itunes fee free . Rinse and repeat and earn a reasonable income, and probably much more by releasing through itunes only.

Hmm.. now this sounds exciting as any centralized offchain solution exposes one to the risk of taxes for earned income and counterparty risk. What is also interesting is this opens up a huge market demand for bitcoin as people will be excited to use itunes alternatives where music costs 1 penny a song instead of 99 pennies a song.

meono

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Quote from: Mikestang on September 21, 2015, 05:08:35 PM

The perfect compliment for this "bitcoin computer" would be a few of those "mining lightbulbs" so you can see your money being wasted more clearly.

lol

thats so true....

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: BitUsher on September 21, 2015, 05:48:36 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:33:12 PM

How else do you enable true micropayment possibilities than by allowing ubiquitous access to mining?

These folks are very, very clever.

So you are suggesting their definition of microtransactions is less than 10 cents which is prohibitively expensive to send right now with fees being 2 pennies?
What does this hardware have to do with sending dust, why not just use one of many services like changetip to send microtransactions or is this going to be a decentralized caching layer for micro-transactions that doesn't use an off the chain solution(like the lightning network)?

Yes, I am honestly unsure about the specifics but I'm confident your second statement is close to what they're doing.

See my reply above and yes indeed the microtransactions they refer to will be less than 10 cents. We're likely talking satoshis here.

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 21, 2015, 05:38:42 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:33:12 PM

How else do you enable true micropayment possibilities than by allowing ubiquitous access to mining?

Bring back ability to send dust without fees maybe?

There are reasons why that is not possible and that would be a hack anyway.

By participating hashing power to 21inc mining pool (as negligible as it could be) they will aggregate all of their embedded chips and Bitcoin computer devices micropayments and include them into blocks they mine.

BitUsher

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Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:33:12 PM

How else do you enable true micropayment possibilities than by allowing ubiquitous access to mining?

These folks are very, very clever.

So you are suggesting their definition of microtransactions is less than 10 cents which is prohibitively expensive to send right now with fees being 2 pennies?
What does this hardware have to do with sending dust, why not just use one of many services like changetip to send microtransactions or is this going to be a decentralized caching layer for micro-transactions that doesn't use an off the chain solution(like the lightning network)?

Come-from-Beyond

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Newbie

Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 05:33:12 PM

How else do you enable true micropayment possibilities than by allowing ubiquitous access to mining?

Bring back ability to send dust without fees maybe?

brg444

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Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

How else do you enable true micropayment possibilities than by allowing ubiquitous access to mining?

These folks are very, very clever.

Mikestang

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The perfect compliment for this "bitcoin computer" would be a few of those "mining lightbulbs" so you can see your money being wasted more clearly.

BitUsher

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Well if they can't they could always pump out miners with that chip that currently outperforms the S7's chips.

Valid point, but those investors were sold something else.

S7 Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)
21 Power Efficiency: 0.16 J/GH

That is indeed an achievement, will be interesting if that efficiency can scale or if heat becomes and issue and what the price point of those chips are.

pilscoop

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This is interesting.
I'm looking forward to see what people come up with.
It's like the Raspberry Pi of Bitcoin

meono

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Quote from: BitUsher on September 21, 2015, 04:54:11 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 04:49:05 PM

Read here:

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Thanks, but I read that back in May and it is vague as well. It appears they are dumping their unfinished device onto the community hoping that someone else can find a purpose for it. I have to think of very creative solutions to possibly turn a profit with this thing.

Its vague because they dont have anything innovation. Its like they're trying to do a pitch in "Shark Tank", you know all vague words without any real shit behind it. I bet the founders know this too.

LOL rPi is not even that stable. Any miner use it as a host know this.

Ask Spoodoolies why they didnt use rPi

BitUsher

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Quote from: brg444 on September 21, 2015, 04:49:05 PM

Read here:

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Thanks, but I read that back in May and it is vague as well. It appears they are dumping their unfinished device onto the community hoping that someone else can find a purpose for it. I have to think of very creative solutions to possibly turn a profit with this thing.

BitUsher

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: BitcoinNewsMagazine on September 21, 2015, 04:44:02 PM

I would rather have an AntRouter R1 once Bitmain starts shipping.

We don't have a price on it would you really be willing to purchase one for 100$? Bitmain is definitely taking its time with it as well.

The point is valid though as a device that either served dual purposes (I have to buy a 50 dollar router anyways might as well get one that I can get some free money with if the power usage is indeed negligible) and/or a device that recycled the waste heat for a useful purpose would make sense.

This device doesn't justify itself without further explanation.

Topic: The 21 Bitcoin Computer - page 13. (Read 11856 times)