Topic: The battle over online privacy (Dash / Monero / Zcash) (Read 3922 times)

right !
thats my conclusion anyway ,and then SDC and then NAV ........in that order

after a lot of research ,MONERO is going to come out on top imo
get them while thyre still affordable
also,why not include NAV and SDC ?

Shadowcash privacy looks to be on par with Monero as they both use ring sigs, but Shadow look like they have an advantage on the bitcoin codebase as thats where most of the development is taking place.

http://i65.tinypic.com/oity0n.png

Nobody mentioned Shadowcoin, their privacy support is supposed to be good as well.

For the moment, I think so too.  However, ZCASH has very interesting crypto.  The main problems I have with ZCASH are:

1) the post-premine by the company
2) the trusted setup
3) (not sure but I think) that ZCASH doesn't use compulsory private transactions, like monero does.

That said, ZCASH DOES have very good ideas.  I think that the main fundamental problem, the trusted setup, can be vastly improved.  When that will be the case, when it will be a grass-roots chain (no postpremine) and when the private transactions are the only possible, ZCASH has better anonymity properties than monero.  But without these 3 aspects, I think I prefer monero's anonymity, although it is not total.

DASH has, IMO, "historical" merit, in that it is one of the first cryptos trying to implement what could improve anonymity.  I think that DASH's anonymity tech (mixers) is outdated, and requires a lot of extra structure (master mixer nodes...) that has been made obsolete by the technology of ring signatures (Monero) and also by the technology of zero knowledge proofs (zcash). 

Monero seem to provide better privacy out of listed three. And after darkweb started accepting XMR, i think we can say monero will come well above than other alts in future. However on future may be another coin will beat monero and provide better privacy, but i think privacy really doesn't matter for normal crypto users.

So it seems Monero is the best out of three, right ?
 

that's another way/words to put it 

If you trust the math, why don't you let the math do the privacy too?
What should be better, the privacy done for you by some people you don't know they're honest with you or not, or the privacy done by the network with mathematically proven methods?
Unless there are bugs (and no big issues were found afaik) I tend to like the second...

there is a difference between a completely private and partly private blockchain..

I do not own XMR neither DASH. I heard that this kind of attack is nearly impossible, or the probability of tracing is very low.

I feel like Dash is here and popular since .. like forever. Years.
First I felt like I missed the train. Then I didn't like the re-branding. I liked the Darkcoin name and I knew of another coin, DashCoin, so it was not a fair move.
Then I felt like others' claims (that Dash may not be as correct and anonymous as it first looks) may be true.
Now I feel like people start leaving Dash and the coin is losing popularity.

Monero should have faster development, but slow is still better than none, so I don't complain.

Zcash tries to find its way onto this world. When it will be out of beta, when it will be on the markets and when devs from other areas will review the code and give fair opinion about it.. then we will know what's Zcash about. Until then I find the Zcash discussions only attempts to create buzz around this project.

I disagree. Dash's master nodes are not a good way to make your coins anonymous because "a government, group of hackers, other entity, or even an individual bought many masternodes (there would be no way to know if this occured), and if the transaction passed through a route where all of the masternodes were owned by that entity, then the transaction could be traced by that entity."

If you want to read more about the comparisons of anonymous coins read it here https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php

That should be enough information for you to know the difference and the superiority of Monero.

Dash has become really popular as compared to those two.but it also comes with anonymity privacy.its better to invest in dash rather than monero as it market is rising and price has greatly rised up.

Well, they are coexisting already. They are just fighting for a larger market share... and Monero, Dash and Zcash need to make major improvements in different areas if they want to be the last altcoin standing.

This will be fun. Let us see what the EFF and the old men of crypto react to this and how they will counter this. Will this make crypto improve and become stronger?

FBI director says agency preparing attack on data encryption after the elections

Same here.   I might come over as a kind of monero shill, but I followed the same way as you did: for the moment, I think it is one of the better anon tech (and a coin that seems to be reasonably fair) ; I like monero because of the tech, and not the other way around.   I used to like DASH, and I still like DASH as a pioneer and one of the first movers in the anon space, but I think that monero is simply better anon tech.

I'm in doubt about zcash.  It just *might* be super great tech.  What is sure, is that there are several things that I don't like about the particularities of this future coin: its "for profit company" stuff, the "first 4 years of taxes", and the way the trusted setup is set up.  But it may just be brilliant technology on which a better anon coin can be built.   You could compare it to the situation with the brilliant technology of cryptonote, but first put to work in a scammy coin.  It is not because the first coin putting the tech to work has problems *as a coin* that the technology is bad.

If ZCASH turns out to be "default anonymous" I think there are ways to make a better "trusted setup" (for instance, with thousands or more initial participants) ; so who knows that from zcash, one can make a clone that is fair and better than monero (or maybe monero can incorporate part of its tech).

In the end, what I'm interested in, is the best anon tech.

It is true that things like NAV are integrating an aspect of anonymity which wasn't considered in monero: the *network* anonymity.  Monero was still solving the problem of *blockchain data anonymity*.

Now, I think that this is the most important aspect, and one could discuss whether the network anonymity is the job of the coin or not.  The problem with a lack of block chain anonymity a la bitcoin, is that your transactions are graved in stone *forever*.   So 30 years after you did so, one can still go and dig it up, and there is no deniability.   The networking anonymity is more furtive.   Ok, if your IP is registered in the clear by a node to which you send it, one can trace you.  But this knowledge becomes less and less usable after many years.  One can wonder whether the networking anon protocol is the job of the coin - after all, this is not part of the "block chain tech" which only describes the block chain data structure, the rules of interpretation and verification and the rules for appending.  But as a software system, it can be nice to integrate also an anon network.  Or one could use an existing one, such as I2P or TOR.

Finally, there's something else.    There's a rule in crypto, which is: "don't use crypto you've invented in your basement for serious stuff".  You can invent crypto in your basement, but then it should be peer or hacker reviewed for years, before you can start to assume that it is somehow safe.  That's a pain, because it means that you cannot do quick innovation in crypto.   Crypto is technology, but also belief.   If the tech doesn't work, then the belief is dangerous.  But even if the tech works, it takes time to develop the belief.   So one should find a middle ground between doing new stuff, and being conservative with crypto technology.  You cannot invent new crypto on Monday, and use it on a large and important scale on Friday.  Crypto has to mature, and win justified belief in its correct functioning, failed attack after failed attack.

I didn't know NAV - well, I might have seen it "amongst the krill of altcoins" but I didn't realize it had some serious anonymity tech.  I started looking into it.  There's at least one thing I don't like about it from the start, and that is that anonymity is an option (that is, you can do transactions "in the clear").   In fact, it is the thing I didn't get around for ZCASH either, I don't know if ZCASH, finally, will be "default anonymous", or whether anonymity is an option there.  With zerocoin, it is an option, because you have to decide yourself to "commit" the underlying coin (originally bitcoin), which is why I thought that the same happened to ZCASH.  But after reading the ZCASH paper, it is not clear to me now.

I've repeated this often: anonymity shouldn't be an option.  It should be inherent in the system, and there may be an option to DISCLOSE your transactions.  Like cash is essentially anonymous by construction.   You MAY go through the hassle of writing down all the serial numbers of the bills that go through your hands and publish this, so that people later can recognize that the bill they got, 50 transactions later, were once yours.    But the system shouldn't offer a way to "be automatically in the clear" because one NEEDS A LOT OF INNOCENT ANONYMOUS TRANSACTIONS in order for anonymity as obfuscation technique to work.  If only those needing it, are going to use it, they stand out, which defeats the purpose.

It's almost as if this thread was made for this page: https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php

Of course, I'm partial to Monero, but that's only because I did a lot of research. My goal was not finding the best opportunity for a pump-and-dump. My goal was to find the most untraceable, most private coin, period. I knew if I found that coin, then eventually the masses would realize it too...and they're starting to. After all, we're dealing with math (specifically cryptography), and math does not care about pump-and-dumps or marketing.

I used to be fan of some of the other coins until I did heavy research. You can dig through my past posts to verify this. The page above is a summary of my research, but do your own research. Don't just go by what others say and who has the coolest looking site, logo, girls dancing, etc.

There are good reasons why entities which depend on privacy and untraceability are using Monero and not the others.