the China PBOC event explained - page 3.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: seleme on March 27, 2014, 11:48:23 PM

Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:38:57 PM

Quote from: medUSA on March 27, 2014, 11:21:12 PM

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

Sorry man but China is seriously fucked up country.

Damn, that shit about permissions of leaving country remind me of dark period of my childhood when the country I was born in was communist Yugoslavia. What a dipshit communism is..

FYI, the HK border restriction is imposed by HK government to prevent influx of illegal workers.

Chinese, as far as i know can freely leave their country as long as they have Visa to the foreign country.

seleme

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Anyway, it's not really problem for exchanges, they can find the way around.

The problem is for regular Joe or Ji Cheesy

from China, and how he could easy invest into Bitcoin. If they close banks connection that's not going to be easy for him.

seriouscoin

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Btw, HK IMO is no longer attractive for financial services like btc exchanges. If you want to attract mainlanders, Macau is the best.

There are many loan sharks in Macau that already has network in Mainland. They offer VIP service so the client can gamble in Macau and pay his debt in mainland.

BTC exchanges can hide under such network (trillions dollars) as it already has good connection with the officials.

seleme

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Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:38:57 PM

Quote from: medUSA on March 27, 2014, 11:21:12 PM

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

Sorry man but China is seriously fucked up country.

Damn, that shit about permissions of leaving country remind me of dark period of my childhood when the country I was born in was communist Yugoslavia. What a dipshit communism is..

seriouscoin

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Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:38:57 PM

Quote from: medUSA on March 27, 2014, 11:21:12 PM

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

Please call it "residency" , citizenship is a wrong word.

And you're a right in China, you cant freely go everywhere, to own a property you must have residency of the city. You can get it thro multiple ways (such as marriage...etc)

seriouscoin

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Quote from: seleme on March 27, 2014, 11:28:06 PM

Quote from: medUSA on March 27, 2014, 11:25:12 PM

Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:15:09 PM

Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:07:55 PM

Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:04:08 PM

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

So the exchanges will move to Hong Kong. Chinese who want to buy BTC will be told by the exchange to send RMB to an exchange employee in China, who will then purchase HK dollars which will then be deposited in the exchange's HK bank account.

I think this will work, until the Chinese Gov pressurises the Hong Kong Gov to close that exchange too Cool

Hong Kong doesn't give a shit about China mainland when it comes to business as far as I know.

Seems like you dont know every far LOL Roll Eyes

zhangweiwu

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Quote from: medUSA on March 27, 2014, 11:21:12 PM

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

seleme

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Quote from: medUSA on March 27, 2014, 11:25:12 PM

Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:15:09 PM

Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:07:55 PM

Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:04:08 PM

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

So the exchanges will move to Hong Kong. Chinese who want to buy BTC will be told by the exchange to send RMB to an exchange employee in China, who will then purchase HK dollars which will then be deposited in the exchange's HK bank account.

I think this will work, until the Chinese Gov pressurises the Hong Kong Gov to close that exchange too Cool

Hong Kong doesn't give a shit about China mainland when it comes to business as far as I know.

medUSA

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Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:15:09 PM

Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:07:55 PM

Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:04:08 PM

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

So the exchanges will move to Hong Kong. Chinese who want to buy BTC will be told by the exchange to send RMB to an exchange employee in China, who will then purchase HK dollars which will then be deposited in the exchange's HK bank account.

I think this will work, until the Chinese Gov pressurises the Hong Kong Gov to close that exchange too Cool

medUSA

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Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:07:55 PM

Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:04:08 PM

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

akujin

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china just wants more cash into the country and less going out.. That's the plan.. Roll Eyes

putting restrictions to prevent fiat to crypto but allow manufacturing/selling mining hardwares and mining coins... then convert crypto to fiat...
And china prospers... Grin

Siegfried

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Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:07:55 PM

Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:04:08 PM

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

So the exchanges will move to Hong Kong. Chinese who want to buy BTC will be told by the exchange to send RMB to an exchange employee in China, who will then purchase HK dollars which will then be deposited in the exchange's HK bank account.

windjc

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Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:10:24 PM

Quote from: windjc on March 27, 2014, 11:08:23 PM

Bitfinex operates out of Hong Kong. They are not affected by the Chinese Government.

Do you mean "Bitfinex operates out of China mainland, in Hong Kong; They are not affected by the Chinese Government."?

Because I always thought Bitfinex is a HK business, am I wrong?

Correct.

zhangweiwu

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Quote from: windjc on March 27, 2014, 11:08:23 PM

Bitfinex operates out of Hong Kong. They are not affected by the Chinese Government.

Do you mean "Bitfinex operates out of China mainland, in Hong Kong; They are not affected by the Chinese Government."?

Because I always thought Bitfinex is a HK business, am I wrong?

gog1

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Quote from: seleme on March 27, 2014, 11:02:31 PM

BTW, what is to stop Chinese to open account in Hong Kong, still his own country, and to trade from there, deposit and withdraw.

Is it a problem for Mainland Chinese to do a that in Hong Kong?

Anyone can open account in HK, just that you cannot remit CNY to mainland and vice versa (subject to annual $50k USD limit per person).

Of course, there are ways to get around it.

windjc

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Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:04:08 PM

Quote from: windjc on March 27, 2014, 10:56:28 PM

Quote from: TERA on March 27, 2014, 10:27:22 PM

Quote from: pungopete468 on March 27, 2014, 10:17:01 PM

The PBOC must understand that closing the exchanges will do little to stop the effect of Bitcoin capital flight.

The social network between people is too great; even if China can prevent social networking websites from talking about it. The word of mouth for something like Bitcoin between friends and family is strong enough to make capital flight unstoppable should the Chinese people desire to preserve their wealth as the unimaginably large economic bubble bursts.

I honestly think this is a direct reaction to an abnormally high risk of economic collapse. I think this is a strong knee-jerk reaction and it is very much grasping at straws.

The Chinese government is resisting change, but sometimes change is irresistible. The Chinese government can't keep the people from Bitcoin any more than they can keep a Typhoon away from the coast.

I don't think that the actual economy of bitcoin in China was that big if it even existed at all. The trading volume was just daytraders speculating and trading with the help of exchanges. Now that the exchanges are closed they will look for the next place where they can easily speculate and trade a different asset. There will be no motivation for them to suddenly establish a barter based bitcoin economy, especially not one nearly as large as the trading volume that was going on in exchanges.

I agree with this.

I also don't think that the Chinese government is that concerned with Bitcoin. I think it sees it as a small annoyance.

Years down the road, if bitcoin is integrated in a global manner, they will change their mind.

For now though, I expect exchanges will be moving to Hong Kong, where they probably should have been from the start.

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

Bitfinex operates out of Hong Kong. They are not affected by the Chinese Government.

zhangweiwu

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Quote from: Siegfried on March 27, 2014, 11:04:08 PM

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

Quote from: zhangweiwu on March 27, 2014, 11:03:58 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 27, 2014, 10:59:55 PM

Please don't fall for this crap.
This afternoon the CEO's of every major Chinese exchange said it was rumors and they had nothing official. (I don't have the link now, but I saw it here and maybe on Reddit too)

I maintained that CEOs of Chinese exchanges had nothing official - I never aruged against it. The arguement I am making is that the rumors are true, although various factor can influnce the execution.

If it was true the exchanges would know about it.
Smart money is buying BTC while you spread your BS. Tongue

Siegfried

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Quote from: windjc on March 27, 2014, 10:56:28 PM

Quote from: TERA on March 27, 2014, 10:27:22 PM

Quote from: pungopete468 on March 27, 2014, 10:17:01 PM

The PBOC must understand that closing the exchanges will do little to stop the effect of Bitcoin capital flight.

The social network between people is too great; even if China can prevent social networking websites from talking about it. The word of mouth for something like Bitcoin between friends and family is strong enough to make capital flight unstoppable should the Chinese people desire to preserve their wealth as the unimaginably large economic bubble bursts.

I honestly think this is a direct reaction to an abnormally high risk of economic collapse. I think this is a strong knee-jerk reaction and it is very much grasping at straws.

The Chinese government is resisting change, but sometimes change is irresistible. The Chinese government can't keep the people from Bitcoin any more than they can keep a Typhoon away from the coast.

I don't think that the actual economy of bitcoin in China was that big if it even existed at all. The trading volume was just daytraders speculating and trading with the help of exchanges. Now that the exchanges are closed they will look for the next place where they can easily speculate and trade a different asset. There will be no motivation for them to suddenly establish a barter based bitcoin economy, especially not one nearly as large as the trading volume that was going on in exchanges.

I agree with this.

I also don't think that the Chinese government is that concerned with Bitcoin. I think it sees it as a small annoyance.

Years down the road, if bitcoin is integrated in a global manner, they will change their mind.

For now though, I expect exchanges will be moving to Hong Kong, where they probably should have been from the start.

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

zhangweiwu

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Merit: 250

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 27, 2014, 10:59:55 PM

Please don't fall for this crap.
This afternoon the CEO's of every major Chinese exchange said it was rumors and they had nothing official. (I don't have the link now, but I saw it here and maybe on Reddit too)

I maintained that CEOs of Chinese exchanges had nothing official - I never aruged against it. The arguement I am making is that the rumors are true, although various factor can influnce the execution. Then again, you only need to know the intention of PBOC - the general believe is PBOC wins every round.

Topic: the China PBOC event explained - page 3. (Read 8268 times)