Topic: The Coming Fork(s) Safety For BItcoins (Read 2736 times)

False BTG wallets and sites per BTG own site:

https://bitcoingold.org/not-official-websites/

Thanks 👍🏻
I’ll give it a look

Edit: for Android only and Alpha stage only
No Desktop version, no Apple version...

The best thing you can do during all these forks is not buy into them with your BTC, but look out for wallets like Samourai Wallet that is on the verge of implementing a features that allows you to auto-dump your forkcoins for more BTC.

Update

BTG devs are still running pointless like a whole lot of headless chickens  
According Coinmarketcap their futures are at 0.02235930 BTC and $129.25, just some 12 USD more than the half of ZEC.
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-gold/

Here they are futures for B2X instead:
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/segwit2x/

Go figure.

Now, B2X and Bitfinex. Do you remember my post above mentioning Coinbase stance?

Now there is Bitfinex one
https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/223
The difference is remarkable as in between this post is ....
"
...The lack of strong two-way replay protection in Segwit2x means that we must take steps to protect customer funds. At the moment of the fork, all deposits and withdrawals for both BTC and B2X will be halted until we are able to: 1. ‘taint’ our customers’ bitcoins to ensure withdrawals cannot be replayed on both chains; and, 2. ensure that we can properly credit deposits in the event a transaction is replayed on both chains. We expect this process to require at least 24 hours, and potentially significantly longer. If the the event happens, announcements will be made throughout the process to keep everyone up to date.
"

Well done Bitfinex!!

That's to be asked to them

Anyway to me does NOT change anything, i.e. if their chain will be up and running safe and sound, I'll do a coin split as I said, instead of importing privvy Keys thus being on the safe side.

I have a couple questions. Why not instate replay protection BEFORE the snapshot? Why not push back the snap shot to AFTER replay protection was instated?

What matters is NOT ONLY saving and securely storing your privvy Keys, because WHEN you'll import them to your wallet (either BTG wallet or B2X wallet) you'll expose  your BTC sum as well, as BTG currently does NOT have RP implemented and B2X will never have.

That is the pivotal point!!! You need to split your BTG/B2X/BTC belongings each one on its very own chain.

You're right about one big thing though: using latest Bitcoin Core wallet.
This NOT in order to store funds as i did already explain, but to cut out B2X network from BTC one.


IMPORTANT BTG Replay-protection related update:
https://bitcoingold.org/bitcoin-gold-dev-update-1/

"
SIGHASH_FORK_ID Replay Protection
ETA: Oct 31

PR 1: https://github.com/BTCGPU/BTCGPU/pull/55
PR 2: https://github.com/BTCGPU/BTCGPU/pull/83

We are working on the same 2-way replay protection as Bitcoin Cash. Currently we have two implementations. PR1 is from our dev team and PR2 is from an anonymous person seeking the bounty. The two implementations are roughly the same but both need improvements on testing.

The original intention to make a bounty for it was to find more devs to speed up the development and get more feedback. However a competing implementation is also welcome because we can be more confident by comparing them. So no matter which PR is finally merged, we are happy to see that the anonymous author can get the bounty.

Testing is always more important than coding for this kind of feature. We can’t rush to merge the code until it has been fully tested. So we may need a few days to test until we can be fully confident in it.
"

I'll be myself the spearhead with BTG, as it will not have decent and decently proven RP (Replay Protection) implemented by mining-start time.
After all I'll be sending coins to myself
Read also: "we recommend a wallet such as GreenAddress, Electrum or TREZOR" https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2017-10-09-segwit2x-safety (Red Alert grade, BTW)

EDIT: Green Address wallet removed by myself as it is based on Centralized Validation.

Just edited my post above: these are the wallets recommended by Bitcoin Core: "we recommend a wallet such as GreenAddress, Electrum or TREZOR"
Link to source in my edited post.
BTW my stance is stable and documented.

EDIT: Green Address wallet removed by myself as it is based on Centralized Validation.

@spendulus,

Yes, it’s all about confusion, politics as usual,

But for me I see it’s all about “making money”, both sides think as such, not actually improving bitcoin.

Sorry to be honest and clear, this is what I think, I may be wrong, both parties care in the first place about money, their own money. If it was about bitcoin there would have been exchanged discussions and serious technical talk, not exchanged insults between the 2 sides.

Sorry. No offense to anybody.

Thanks greenbits

I am still having a problem to figure out if any blockchain will die, both survive, which will be the “real” BTC.

There are lots and lots of writings, both sides claiming the other blockchain will die, the other crypto will be of no value, it is all politics unfortunately...

While I agree with your general position, I think that you've been missing the point. People were just saying that what matters is holding your private keys; the "NYA stance" as you put it isn't relevant there. There is an important distinction to make: where you hold your private keys =/= what service you use to push transactions.

Anyway, there are a lot of reasons never to use Jaxx regardless of the NYA. It's buggy and the desktop wallet is highly insecure, secured only by a 4-digit pin.


I like what Electrum has done here, but I still wouldn't be comfortable using it. It's never been tested in the wild, so to speak. I'm still hoping there will be a form of opt-in replay protection. But if not, I'm comfortable doing an RBF + nLocktime transaction to split the coins.

So you have true legacy bitcoin addresses? Good.

One more point.

Wait until after the start of 2018.

For every time you think about "taking some action" then wait another month.

Some people for very specific purposes have created clouds of confusion at this time.

Let me explain what a fork actually is. At a predetermined time, a snap shot of the original blockchain is taken, and the new chain is start by the b group of miners. he old chain is completely unaffected by this process; its essentially a new coin being created using the records and balances of the existing bitcoin blockchain. As long as you have the private keys to the wallets in question, you should be able to access both chains. Nothing is compromised, nothing is changed. You simply gain the ability to access two different blockchains with a single private key.

Thanks for clarification

I already had all BTC in a paper Whaley stored safely, where I have the qr code for both the private key and public key.

I’ll see later which wallet I will import to after things get settled or get cleare.

I read on bread wallet
“What this means is that unless you tether your app to a node of your choosing (a powerful feature that is available within the app today), your Bread will end up interacting with whichever chain has the most miners..”

Hopefully there will be a safe way not to lose coins and not to lose value.

First of all.

The "12 words" is not the private key(s). Very different. Read BIP38.

Rather than "believe" that the 12 words will restore correctly after a reinstall, why not go to the core of the issue.

See if you can dump your private keys, then store them on paper.

More.

I just went to the JAXX website and started reading their code. Basically my gut feeling is NO JAXX. I didn't go all the way through it, but that's my opinion.

@daberti,

Sorry, I didn’t mean any complications.

I am just not thatt techie... all what I read are probably, perhaps, maybe, hopefully, undecided... all these doesn’t fit with me.

I just moved all BTC to paper wallet.

Seems to me Bread wallet has some plans for letting users decide which chain they want to transact on.

I’ll wait and see.

Thanks

It does NOT matter if Coinbase here https://blog.coinbase.com/timeline-and-support-bitcoin-segwit2x-and-bitcoin-gold-eda72525efd states
"Approximately 24–48 hours post fork. Once we have ensured that the blockchains are stable, Coinbase will re-enable Bitcoin and Bitcoin2x sends and receives. Please be careful when sending funds as certain wallets and bitcoin services may refer to the two blockchains differently."
Quite clear the NYA stance.

Here http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/hardfork.html it is stated ...."If you own Bitcoins before the fork, a transaction that spends these coins after the fork will, in general, be valid on both chains. This means that you might be spending both coins simultaneously. This is called ‘replay’. To prevent this, you need to move your coins using transactions that differ on both chains.

Fork detection

Electrum (version 2.9 and higher) is able to detect consensus failures between servers (blochchain forks), and lets users select their branch of the fork.
•Electrum will download and validate block headers sent by servers that may follow different branches of a fork in the Bitcoin blockchain. Instead of a linear sequence, block headers are organized in a tree structure. Branching points are located efficiently using binary search. The purpose of MCV is to detect and handle blockchain forks that are invisible to the classical SPV model.
•The desired branch of a blockchain fork can be selected using the network dialog...."

Can you get the huge difference? Here you anyone can choose the branch and split the coins, otherwise they'll do double spending by barely importing privvy Keys into the to be B2X wallet (or any other wallet that doesn't allow choosing the proper blockchain).
If we don't allow for this sinking deeply in our minds we'll face serious troubles and probably we'll deserve these.

EDIT:
1)Core Wallet does NOT enable splitting in a handy way for non techies
2)Jaxx has a proven history of epic failures https://vxlabs.com/2017/06/10/extracting-the-jaxx-12-word-wallet-backup-phrase/#update-extract-pin

Other info:
https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2017-10-09-segwit2x-safety
Inside....."we recommend a wallet such as GreenAddress, Electrum or TREZOR" no wonders Jaxx is NOT there 

limopc, you're complicating things...I'll repeat myself...

Claiming BTG has already been explained above. With all of the pre-requisites and conditions to be met.
If BTG will have an official wallet replay-protection properly witnessed by community etc etc then you'll go this way https://electrum.org/bcc2.txt
Otherwise you'll go this way for your own safety http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/hardfork.html
Please read it.


B2X will have 33.1% emergent consensus from the >83% that it meant to be, as I'm writing.
https://coin.dance/blocks
Electrum from 2.9 on allows you to detect Forks and handle them accordingly. This had been implemented with SEGWIT2X in mind.
How to do is explained here http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/hardfork.html
Please read it.

In general leaving BTC on exchanges (i.e. Coinbase) part of NYA or on wallets (i.e. JAXX)part of NYA is pure lack of common sense.
A list (that had been already posted above)of current members of NYA: steer away from them!

Abra (United States)
supports    

Bitangel.com / Chandler Guo (China)
supports    

Bitex (Argentina)
supports    

bitFlyer (Japan)
supports    

Bitfury (United States)
supports    

BitPay (United States)
supports    

BitPesa (Kenya)
supports    

Bitso (Mexico)
supports     

Bixin.com (China)
supports    

Blockchain (UK)
supports    

Bloq (United States)
supports    

BTCC (China)
supports    

BTER.com (China)
supports    

Circle (United States)
supports    

Civic (United States)
supports    

Coinbase (United States)
supports    

Coins.ph (Phillipines)
supports    

Decentral (Canada)
supports    

Digital Currency Group (United States)
supports    

Filament (United States)
supports    

Gavin Andresen (United States)
supports    

Genesis Global Trading (United States)
supports    

Genesis Mining (Hong Kong)
supports    

GoCoin (Isle of Man)
supports    

Grayscale Investments (United States)
supports    

Guy Corem (Israel)
supports     

Jaxx (Canada)
supports     

Korbit (South Korea)
supports    

Luno (Singapore)
supports     

MONI (Finland)
supports    

Netki (United States)
supports     

OB1 (United States)
supports     

Purse (United States)
supports    

Ripio (Argentina)
supports    

Safello (Sweden)
supports     

SFOX (United States)
supports    

ShapeShift (Switzerland)
supports    

Veem (United States)
supports    

Xapo (United States)
supports


I seriously hope we're done with that
Now let's wait for the BTG mainnet and BTG wallet.

Actually, the above post is true. I think you misread it. It doesn't say anything about BTG.

Jaxx gives you access to your private keys. It's not a web wallet. After the Segwit2x fork, you can extract any private keys that held BTC and they will hold both BTC and B2X. The same is true of the BTG snapshot, once the network actually launches.

And it's true that people should avoid transacting until they know how to split their coins.


It doesn't matter if Jaxx is part of the NYA. Jaxx users still have their private keys. It's not a web wallet like Xapo where users can lose BTC just by holding BTC in the web wallet.

Electrum under default settings is just as unsafe as Jaxx to use after the fork. It doesn't enforce consensus rules and randomly connects to trusted servers. As there is no replay protection, Electrum should be usable for both B2X and BTC after the fork. So you can be replay attacked just the same.

You should be telling people to move their coins to a Core wallet, not Electrum, if you're concerned about people losing BTC.