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Topic: The curious case of user 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 (Read 1342 times)

legendary
Activity: 944
Merit: 1026
So thats basically my opinion on how things went. He was a very young lonely dude, talented for his age but wayyy too cocky, he launched 3 websites. They got a lot of users, he made a lot of friends and enjoyed the online reputation he had. But the businesses never made any profit. So once his websites bled too much money, he faked the hack and ran away with the rest of the funds, got into altcoin trading and made bank, then decided his best move was to pay back the people he scammed.

Not everyone.  Still waiting for TF to repay my 6 BTC from 2013. Not forgotten, not forgiven.

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/183c1ab1b36608b27d86e08cfe4ec9110b2c2168947c75934edc99a631b3b41b
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
My dear Bluto,

First of all, I am curious why you made that post, only to delete it afterwards...  Huh
He didn't delete it, Mods did:
Quote
Delete reply: Re: The curious case of user 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 in topic #5377727 by member #558169
That's probably because it's off-topic.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
[...]

[...]

Thank you both! Much appreciated Smiley



Quote from:  Bluto
Great post.
Please make a thread on how Erik Voheeres built his wealth by stealing bitcoins early with Feed Ze Birds.


Also potentially Roger Ver involvment in schemes that made people lose money and potentially lined his pockets (BitInstant, MtGox)...

My dear Bluto,

First of all, I am curious why you made that post, only to delete it afterwards...  Huh

About Roger, I think there is enough evidence mentioned as feedback on his Trust page, where multiple users exposed his scheme:



Don't you think he is red enough? Smiley Furthermore, he also has a flag open on his name, for defrauding people. The topic mentioned as reference is this one: Roger Ver/Memorydealers is intentionally defrauding people.

But what's the connection, from your pespective, between "Bitcoin Jesus" and 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰?

I started this topic to point out that 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 acts like nothing happened in the past and is still present on the forum, instead of having, at least, the decency to make himself gone from here. But Roger Ver is not present on the forum anymore. So what's the connection?

About what you said about Erik Vorhees I don't know what to say, I did not study this subject.

And, once again: why did you delete your post?
copper member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
I noticed, a few days ago, that someone made a post in this topic. I noticed it as the topic was highlighted when selecting "Show new replies to your posts". However, I did not see who made the post and I also did not read the post at the respective moment. A few days later I remember about it and I come to check the topic, but it seems that whoever made the post, deleted it, as now the last post of the topic (excepting this one) is from July 24th.

Is there any way to see the deleted post? Maybe LoyceV can help somehow...? I am curious what the post was about (also why it was deleted).
More specifically: https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6135/61354460.html
Quote from:  Bluto (according to Loyce)
Great post.
Please make a thread on how Erik Voheeres built his wealth by stealing bitcoins early with Feed Ze Birds.


Also potentially Roger Ver involvment in schemes that made people lose money and potentially lined his pockets (BitInstant, MtGox)...
hero member
Activity: 1659
Merit: 687
LoyceV on the road. Or couch.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
I noticed, a few days ago, that someone made a post in this topic. I noticed it as the topic was highlighted when selecting "Show new replies to your posts". However, I did not see who made the post and I also did not read the post at the respective moment. A few days later I remember about it and I come to check the topic, but it seems that whoever made the post, deleted it, as now the last post of the topic (excepting this one) is from July 24th.

Is there any way to see the deleted post? Maybe LoyceV can help somehow...? I am curious what the post was about (also why it was deleted).
member
Activity: 396
Merit: 21
TL;DR: PaperWallet is a sore loser
Amen, said the GodFather of the very much "trusted" system.

Thank you for the high consideration you have about me, but I am not involved in managing the Trust system. I am only assigned to cycle merits inside my gang. Fore more information, please see also my Personal Text.

Lol you just seem to have forgotten that it wasn't you who said that sentence, but it was LoyceV. If you haven't, of course I am referring to the person who wrote that sentence not to the one quoting it. Funny somehow you're taking credit for it.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
TL;DR: PaperWallet is a sore loser
Amen, said the GodFather of the very much "trusted" system.

Thank you for the high consideration you have about me, but I am not involved in managing the Trust system. I am only assigned to cycle merits inside my gang. Fore more information, please see also my Personal Text.

All he cares about is that I opposed his flag and now, no matter what I would have said, he would have to say the opposite.
nah come on, do you think I have nothing else to do then follow those who opposed my flag and contradict them?

Yes, I actually believe that. And it seems I am not the only one:

OP is pissed he didn't get the supported he hoped for in his many posts about FortuneJack.

Anyway I've done none of that to the other people who opposed my flag.

Oh, how sweet of you! You haven't cursed those coins? Are we safe then?

I'll give you that, at least you're not shitposting

Oh, this is so kind, now I can rest in peace. I was really worried that I am a shit-poster but now I feel so relieved...

I don't really have to participate in any activity on the forum, I have nothing to gain here

True, there is nothing to gain here. Furthermore, from what I saw, you mostly lose something, rather than gaining. Therefore, why the effort to be here?

except some interesting exchanges with some people, some fun, and reading some interesting stories.

Aww, come on... Be here for fun and stories and risk losing so many other things...? Better be safe than sorry!
member
Activity: 115
Merit: 10
Does anyone know definitively why TF stopped to refund the people he scammed?
member
Activity: 396
Merit: 21
TL;DR: PaperWallet is a sore loser
Amen, said the GodFather of the very much "trusted" system.


which has nothing to do with TF, nor he gives a damn about what TF did in the past Smiley All he cares about is that I opposed his flag and now, no matter what I would have said, he would have to say the opposite.

nah come on, do you think I have nothing else to do then follow those who opposed my flag and contradict them? Anyway I've done none of that to the other people who opposed my flag. You just happened to open up a very interesting subject (I'll give you that, at least you're not shitposting), and that's why I followed up. I just found the subject interesting. I don't really have to participate in any activity on the forum, I have nothing to gain here, except some interesting exchanges with some people, some fun, and reading some interesting stories.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
While in theory everything is possible, in reality a scammer simply doesn't have the patience to build for so long for a pretty much uncertain result.
Scammers want easy money/easy results. So this behavior would not match with scammer's psychology.

Anyone can be a scammer, but that does not mean that everyone should be treated like a scammer if there is no evidence they are a scammer.

Sure, it is possible that GazetaBitcoin is an alt of some scammer, but I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that is the case. Nor am I aware of any accusations of GazetaBitcoin scamming anyone, credible or otherwise. [...]

You can argue semantics as to what he should be called [...]

Thank you both, NeuroticFish and PrimeNumber7, for your comments and involvement here.

And, speaking of semantics, thank you also for explaining to PaperWallet the difference between possible and probable. But, have no fear, he knows this difference, but he's just acting dumb. And he's acting dumb for a very specific reason, which I'll explain below. I hoped, up to this point, that he will stop being childish, but seeing that his tantrum continues, let's see what it's based of.

As you probably guessed yourselves, it has nothing to do with TF case Smiley It's just that PaperWallet is biased against me for a specific reason.

A while ago, he created a flag against FortuneJack, a flag which was, in my opinion (and not just mine), inappropriate, therefore I opposed it.

Excepting that, from his own will, PaperWallet stated that he is willing to give a small prize to all users which would either support or oppose his flag. That was his own will, without being coerced by anyone else.

Afterwards, seeing that users are opposing his flag, he started to be delusional, stating ridiculous things, such as he will curse the prizes he was going to award (facepalm moment), in a sore attempt to make users to ask him to not send that prize anymore lol.

The 1 mBTC you’ll receive has a curse associated with it for those who oppose it, so even a 99% atheist might want to return it afterwards to the wallet it came from, fees on me up to 0.02 mBTC. The curse is stronger when you lack integrity and less important if you’re stupid,  but in both cases well merited.

You don’t need this 1mBTC for your curse, you’ve just earned it

You are allowed to return it back to same wallet it came from, if you don’t want my second prediction above to come true.

Of course, to such allegation, replies like this one seem best approach:

Lol. You're a sore loser when you don't get your way



TL;DR: PaperWallet is a sore loser which has nothing to do with TF, nor he gives a damn about what TF did in the past Smiley All he cares about is that I opposed his flag and now, no matter what I would have said, he would have to say the opposite.

This topic could have been about other notorious scammers or other repugnant individuals, such as El Cabron, master-P, Butterfly Labs, pirateat40, cablepair, humanrightsfoundation etc. etc. etc. No matter the subject, PaperWallet's reaction would have been the same.

I hope that things are more clear now about his views Smiley
copper member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
The idea that those old scams were gone does not mean that the scammers did, and they could have very well created new accounts such as yours (who knows) and now they say oh look at those old scams they should be all gone.

So you are implying that I may be an old scammer of the forum, which was blamed in the past and then, somehow, returned with a new account and spent years for building a good reputation, just to have the chance to meet such a bright mind as you are to expose me?
Of course, you may be, that is totally possible, no need for a bright mind, even you must say it's possible.
Anyone can be a scammer, but that does not mean that everyone should be treated like a scammer if there is no evidence they are a scammer.

Sure, it is possible that GazetaBitcoin is an alt of some scammer, but I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that is the case. Nor am I aware of any accusations of GazetaBitcoin scamming anyone, credible or otherwise.

I would compare this to TF, whose case has a set of facts that I do not believe are disputed (and that I understand are accepted by TF), which makes me believe that TF has not honored his obligations to certain members of the community. You can argue semantics as to what he should be called, but I think it is reasonable to not entrust him with your money.
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 6382
Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!
So you are implying that I may be an old scammer of the forum, which was blamed in the past and then, somehow, returned with a new account and spent years for building a good reputation, just to have the chance to meet such a bright mind as you are to expose me?
Of course, you may be, that is totally possible, no need for a bright mind, even you must say it's possible.

While in theory everything is possible, in reality a scammer simply doesn't have the patience to build for so long for a pretty much uncertain result.
Scammers want easy money/easy results. So this behavior would not match with scammer's psychology.
Just my 2 satoshi.
member
Activity: 396
Merit: 21
The idea that those old scams were gone does not mean that the scammers did, and they could have very well created new accounts such as yours (who knows) and now they say oh look at those old scams they should be all gone.

So you are implying that I may be an old scammer of the forum, which was blamed in the past and then, somehow, returned with a new account and spent years for building a good reputation, just to have the chance to meet such a bright mind as you are to expose me?
Of course, you may be, that is totally possible, no need for a bright mind, even you must say it's possible.

And the proof is all of the scams we see with the "trusted" members.

What are these scams "we see" (who is "we", anyway?) with the "trusted" members (and who are these "trusted" members?)? Can you be more specific, please?
"we" is the average user who comes and reads some of the scam accusations and the reputation section in this forum. There are a lot of them, the latest one is the BitLucy scam perpetrated by "trusted" member Royse777.

Now definitely like everywhere else there is still some people who never scammed but most of the time it's a matter of chance to fall on someone who does/does not scam.

What you wrote above is outstanding wisdom. It's like saying that, when you go out of your house, you have 50% chances of having a rock falling on you. Your unbelievable words of wisdom remind me of an old story about a tribe of Gypsies, which elected an old Gypsy to rule them. And, in each morning, when the elder was going out of his tent, he was saying: "today may rain or may not rain". And everyday he was right! And all the Gypsies were stunned by his intelligence!
We perfectly agree, so obvious that it's only a matter of chance to fall for a scam here, the "trust" system does not help that much. Scams are as frequent as weather changes.

Sadly, Trust score does not always reflect someone's trustworthiness, as many members are misusing Trust feedbacks. However, excepting that, you say that I am bragging about my Trust score. Where have I (ever) done that?
Here, again, we agree. I just said there is nothing to brag about not that you are bragging.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
Of course, what I am saying, you are not to be trusted no matter what.

Everybody has the right to trust or distrust anybody else. I have no problem with that. However, the reason stated by you (below) for distrusting me is pure idiocy.

The idea that those old scams were gone does not mean that the scammers did, and they could have very well created new accounts such as yours (who knows) and now they say oh look at those old scams they should be all gone.

So you are implying that I may be an old scammer of the forum, which was blamed in the past and then, somehow, returned with a new account and spent years for building a good reputation, just to have the chance to meet such a bright mind as you are to expose me. Do I understand this correctly?

And the proof is all of the scams we see with the "trusted" members.

What are these scams "we see" (who is "we", anyway?) with the "trusted" members (and who are these "trusted" members?)? Can you be more specific, please?

Now definitely like everywhere else there is still some people who never scammed but most of the time it's a matter of chance to fall on someone who does/does not scam.

What you wrote above is outstanding wisdom. It's like saying that, when you go out of your house, you have 50% chances of having a rock falling on you. Your unbelievable words of wisdom remind me of an old story about a tribe of Gypsies, which elected an old Gypsy to rule them. And, in each morning, when the elder was going out of his tent, he was saying: "today may rain or may not rain". And everyday he was right! And all the Gypsies were stunned by his intelligence!


It might be your case (for now), but there is nothing to brag about your trust score because it has very little meaning.

Sadly, Trust score does not always reflect someone's trustworthiness, as many members are misusing Trust feedbacks. However, excepting that, you say that I am bragging about my Trust score. Where have I (ever) done that?
member
Activity: 396
Merit: 21
But the people whom you're talking to you just don't know how many scams they've promoted or how many people they've scammed themselves. So there's no case of defending yourself here.

I, personally, know how many scams I promoted and also how many people I scammed myself: 0 (zero).


Of course, what I am saying, you are not to be trusted no matter what. The idea that those old scams were gone does not mean that the scammers did, and they could have very well created new accounts such as yours (who knows) and now they say oh look at those old scams they should be all gone. And the proof is all of the scams we see with the "trusted" members.

Now definitely like everywhere else there is still some people who never scammed but most of the time it's a matter of chance to fall on someone who does/does not scam. It might be your case (for now), but there is nothing to brag about your trust score because it has very little meaning.
copper member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
In TF's above post, you will see that he seems to have admitted to having at least 1000BTC of his own money as of 2016. This is not the same as him admitting to stealing money from his customers, but it does show that he did not use all available resources to repay his customers when his site was "hacked".

Good observation, PrimeNumber7! Perhaps he needed more those coins for impressing Internet chicks than paying back his victims. After all, our main role, here, on Earth, is to perpetuate our specie. Perhaps, TF is very interested in reaching humanity's main goal (which should be a noble act (/s) ) and, for that, he used the coins in impressing such women hoping that he would also be able to perpetuate humanity. The other  people's loss was, probably, less important for him.

After all, what could matter more? Having an offspring or paying back a debt? Let's be reasonable here.

(P.S.: I hope you noticed the "/s" I wrote above.)
The point I was trying to make was that TF clearly had a lot of coin after the hack (or more likely IMO, "hack"), and this runs contrary to TF's claim that he is/was so broke that he was trying to get minuscule amounts of coin from signature campaigns.

TF had a ton of BTC in his wallet AFTER the hack. He did not deny this and claimed that this was his personal funds and nothing to do with inputs.io user deposits. I don't remember how much, I can probably find out if I look hard enough, but I believe it was at least $100,000, if not over $1,000,000. I believe what happened is with the cryptoboom he made millions from altcoin trading this money and this is the money he used to repay everyone. I believe that the only reason he did that was because his IRL identity is somewhat known to people and now that he was a multi-millionaire the best move was to repay people to avoid any potential legal issues.
Money, including bitcoin is fungible. If TF had personal funds, but also ran a business that took on debts (such as customer deposits), in most cases, if the business had losses, his personal funds would need to be used to cover any business debts.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
It's hard to believe it's almost been 10 years... let me try to clear things up from my memory.

TF had a ton of BTC in his wallet AFTER the hack. He did not deny this and claimed that this was his personal funds and nothing to do with inputs.io user deposits. I don't remember how much, I can probably find out if I look hard enough, but I believe it was at least $100,000, if not over $1,000,000. I believe what happened is with the cryptoboom he made millions from altcoin trading this money and this is the money he used to repay everyone. I believe that the only reason he did that was because his IRL identity is somewhat known to people and now that he was a multi-millionaire the best move was to repay people to avoid any potential legal issues.

I also think the hack was made up. He blamed the hosting provider linode for the hack. For people who don't know, there was a few hacks that happened back in 2011-2012 with sites that were hosting on linode that had 2fa bypassed, there was actually a guy called Zhou Tong who owned a site (forget name of site) this happened with, and there were a lot of similarity between TF and him including age location etc. They are not the same person but I reckon that had something to do with TF choosing this cover story. But anyway my point is linode was literally hated by the community and everyone knew not to use them because bitcoins kept getting stolen from sites hosted there. At the time everyone who heard that he was using linode thought he had to be faking, it was just too convenient that he was claiming to be another linode victim. Nobody could have been that stupid to put anything BTC related on linode. He also never preserved any of the logs or any evidence of the hack from back then. Also all of "his" money he had after the hack was heavily washed through bitcoin mixers so could easily have been the same coins.

I believe the hack was made up because his business model was not sustainable and he was losing money for months before this as well as gambling away tons of money and even getting scammed himself, and this was his way out of the situation. He had 3 businesses, coinchat, a website that paid people for chatting, inputs.io a wallet that had no fees for offchain payments, and coinlenders, a lending site. In that time period, peole who got into lending lost big time, he even mentions that in this thread, all those p2p lending platforms ended badly. So it's not exactly clear how he was turning any profit, but he was was regularly throwing around cash, making 100btc+ bets on gambling websites such as justdice etc.

So thats basically my opinion on how things went. He was a very young lonely dude, talented for his age but wayyy too cocky, he launched 3 websites. They got a lot of users, he made a lot of friends and enjoyed the online reputation he had. But the businesses never made any profit. So once his websites bled too much money, he faked the hack and ran away with the rest of the funds, got into altcoin trading and made bank, then decided his best move was to pay back the people he scammed.

I'll also add something I just remembered. TF had a pretty bad gambling problem, I hope he's doing better now. But even before he did anything bitcoin related, he was literally in the news because he had spent something like $50,000 on microtransactions for an online game. No idea how he was able to get that much money because he was a teenager. I remember the games developer literally stalked him after he tried to quit to try and get him addicted to the game again. Something relevant to think about.

Anyway, I'm glad the guy paid most people back, he did the right thing, sounds like he eventually sorted out his life. I didn't have much knowledge of mental issues back then but I definitely do now as I've lost people close to me, and I myself am living with depression etc, so I'm actually relieved to see him posting here and hope the best for the guy.

Theres way more stuff I could talk about, it's slowly coming back to me, at one point years ago I was literally considering writing a book about the whole thing because there is wayyy more to the story lol. But I kinda feel like it wouldn't be anyones benefit to bring up half of the shit, probably best if we stop beating the horse. Just felt the need to correct the record a little bit.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
In TF's above post, you will see that he seems to have admitted to having at least 1000BTC of his own money as of 2016. This is not the same as him admitting to stealing money from his customers, but it does show that he did not use all available resources to repay his customers when his site was "hacked".

Good observation, PrimeNumber7! Perhaps he needed more those coins for impressing Internet chicks than paying back his victims. After all, our main role, here, on Earth, is to perpetuate our specie. Perhaps, TF is very interested in reaching humanity's main goal (which should be a noble act (/s) ) and, for that, he used the coins in impressing such women hoping that he would also be able to perpetuate humanity. The other  people's loss was, probably, less important for him.

After all, what could matter more? Having an offspring or paying back a debt? Let's be reasonable here.

(P.S.: I hope you noticed the "/s" I wrote above.)
copper member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1901
Amazon Prime Member #7
I think a robust debate is good. Even if the other party is not necessarily speaking in good faith.

I agree. But I was just saying that scratching the past may not lead to have TF state the truth now, if he did not do it back then either...
Perhaps it were better, in this case, if we had some of the users which were scammed back then to state if they were refunded...? But I know, this is almost impossible as most of them are not active anymore.
In TF's above post, you will see that he seems to have admitted to having at least 1000BTC of his own money as of 2016. This is not the same as him admitting to stealing money from his customers, but it does show that he did not use all available resources to repay his customers when his site was "hacked".
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