Topic: The Despondancy Stage - page 5. (Read 5345 times)

I don't usually respond to troll accounts, but I will this one time.  The rises might be from traders who don't really care about bitcoin, but the majority of Average Joe retail buyers would LOVE and envision a future world where the bitcoin they bought not only continues to rise in value relative to fiat currency, but they can also exchange it DIRECTLY for everything in life (goods, services, rent, utilities, gas, food, car, travel, etc.)  THAT is what the Average Joe wants bitcoin for, they don't really want to just exchange it back for more fiat currency.  That defeats the whole purpose in their eyes.

I can understand your feelings on this.  But you must realize that if no one, I mean NO one held bitcoin at all, the price would drop to zero or near zero.  That includes the traders on the exchanges.  So holding HAS to be part of the equation, just like in PMs, stocks, commodities, etc.  This idea that no one should ever hold bitcoin is ridiculous, as then bitcoin would then have no market value at all.  More people holding and deciding what they WON'T sell it for fiat (or never back to fiat) is what gives bitcoin it's market price in the first place.

You are describing a phenomenon (the "trolls" that switch the music from bull to bear) that is simply a natural consequence of another phenomenon.
What phenomenon you ask?

The way this market works. The way uptrends and downtrends in the bitcoin market work.

Just go look at the all time chart. Does it look like a natural or healthy market? There are hardly any healthy sustainable uptrends and grow in there, just periods of ridiculous bubbles that don't last that long followed by LONG periods of dumps into the ground (that in previous bubble cycles stopped always higher, but that is irrelevant).
Look at the 2011 chart. The "$32 to $2" one. Sure, it eventually recovered and went into other bubbles after, but does it look like a healthy market to you? No, the majority of people responsible for those price increases (and consequent dumps) don't seem to care about using bitcoin or how many bitcoin they have, they care about how many dollars they are gonna get when they dump higher (or how many dollars they get when they close their shorts).

Do the words and expression "bubble" or "pump&dump" ring any bells here?

Daytraders, speculators ot trolls are not the problem, because these unnatural unhealthy price movements (exponential pumps or prolonged panics and relentless dumps) are an indication that bitcoin is not a payment system, but can only be a musical chairs "let's make a quick dollar" instrument. It doesn't have a real use (not for the majority of people involved in bitcoin for whatever reason) that would justify a high price aside from the speculative aspect of it as an end in itself.


A speculative bubble based on blind hype and kool aid works like this: As long as the pumps are possible because of a low enough price and marketcap everyone stays in the game, but when unsustainable long term "demand/supply inbalance" price range is reached (and that could have been the $500-$1000 range for BTC) shit hits the fan, THE bubble actually bursts and everybody starts to lose interest (demand goes to shit and price slowly and gradually decreases and doesn't recover anymore).


The only significant number of people (percentage) actually using bitcoin as payment system because of its only advantages to fiat money are drug dealers. And sometimes they get totally screwed by it anyway: http://uk.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-crash-drug-dealers-2015-1?r=US


Think about all that for a moment.

Indeed, but I found it important to warn that guy in the strongest wordings possible. He had clearly no idea of what he was even doing here, yet he fell for Bitcoin probably because he had some ideas about getting rich quickly. Why some people still don't get it is beyond me, but then again the average Joe, of which this guy seems to be a good example, doesn't know shit. I think you agree with me that Bitcoin is no place for inexperienced people at this point.

Wow sounds like 2 differentdifferent people.

People are well aware of the volatility and most people here are putting only recreational money then trolling each others depending on their positions. What's wrong about that? I think you are way too much concerned.

This again: this instant agressiveness against anything that goes against the status quo here. If you rather not read it, press the 'ignore' button as quite a few people tend to do here. A sign of utter intellectual weakness (as it boils down to plugging your eyes and saying 'lalalalala can't hear you!'), but go ahead if that makes you feel better.

The reason why I'm here is simply because I still tend to read these boards now and then. I find it highly interesting how Bitcoin is developing and how it goes down, despite the vast euphoria that I witnessed here. Not to laugh at the people that really lost a lot of money - as I honestly feel for them - but more as a social experiment. Cultism is what will hurt a lot of people that read these boards.

Why are you even here? Stop wasting your time and leave.

Thanks for shedding some realism on the situation. Most people here have never been interested in Bitcoin or its applications: that simply is a myth. Before I said that 80 or maybe 90% of the people posting here are only in it for the money, and not for the tech, and I'm gonna stick with that. There's an active movement, and that includes you too SgtBett, that actively makes people dream of wealth and grandeur in the future. People only lose when they sell according to their philosophy, while the best thing to do throughout 2014, save during some short lived bumps upwards, was to instantly sell all your Bitcoins.

I know the comparison is highly unpopular here, but I still believe that Bitcoin has a lot in common with a ponzi scheme. There is tremendous peer pressure to stay into the 'game', if only to fill the pockets of people that were here before. I almost on a daily basis see people advising new members, that mostly have no clue about Bitcoin or where the price is headed, to buy as much as they can and 'hold'. It really is sickening to see sometimes.

Again, I don't think most of those so-called "bulls" were genuine at all, only a small percentage were real bull long investors that truly care about bitcoin's future.  Most of those older bull accounts just belong to disingenuous day traders flipping the script during a rally to "To da moon!", how bitcoin will change the world, bogus charts, rockets/trains, sky high predictions, and other such nonsense because it serves their purpose at the moment.  

And declarations of "The bottom MUST be in!" is just bull trap fodder spread by day traders trying to unload more coins.

Once the rally is over, they eventually log out of those bull accounts, and back into their bear troll accounts and go to town.  Starting the bullshit cycle all over again.  

If you are a newbie that comes here in the middle of a rally, then the joke is on you.  You already missed the train for a long while.

The good news for true longs is, now during the "Despondancy Stage" is probably a very good time to buy.

I've been sitting tight hodling since October 2012.

I remember feeling quite well off November 2013 time, but yep, the rollercoaster's been playing a bit rough since; I still think it beats putting the money in the bank or stock market though.

I've found it's helped moving somewhere sunny and living off the proceeds of the house while bitcoin makes its mind up.

That is not true.  I haven't had a credit card in 12 years, use Bitcoin all the time for flights and hotels.  In fact I'm going to SEA for a couple months and everything has been booked with BTC.

Beg to disagree. We're in the most brutal bear market bitcoin has seen so far (2011 was more drastic in price change alone, but measure by price change and duration, 2014 to now is much worse I'd say).

What else could this forum look like in a state like that?

If you re-visit threads from the first half of 2014, you'll see the old bullish regulars declaring with full conviction that the bottom *must* be in now. Plenty of posts with the usual log-linear extrapolations to 1000s of $ per coin were posted again.

The failed May/July reversal really changed that optimistic outlook. Until the next, even bigger capitulation in October. Then the reversal after that one failed as well. New capitulation, January, even lower price, even higher volume. And it's not at all clear to me where we're heading right now.

My point is, in a deep bear market like this, what do you expect the long-term Bitcoin believers to post? Predictions about impending reversals? Done that, and failed. Pat each other on the back for not being affected yet because their entry price was in the single digits? That happens occasionally, and it provokes a justified backlash.

So the bears, on the market and in the subforum are running the show for now. I agree that probably quite a few of them are disingenuous, in the sense that they're not really here to "warn the delusional bulls" about the price decline. But whatever the reasons are for them to post here, they use the same hyperbole the bulls rely on when the market is up.

That's where I see the similarity: if you can't acknowledge bitcoin might fail after all, it's not much better in my view than if you can't acknowledge it might succeed (and price will recover). Everything between those two extremes is a valid opinion, and I like reading it usually.

Bite your tongue!  This forum is about money, and everyone knows that money brings out only the best in man

Bear trolls have throwaway bull troll accounts also, which they are happy to log into during a rally and post stupid "To da moon!" posts and pics of rockets and trains.  Because they are day traders, and all they care about is people buying during a rally (so they can eventually take profit).


The true bull long investors on this board are probably still reading occasionally, but don't bother to even post right now and haven't for nearly a year.  Their posts and threads would just get lost in all this troll dribble.


This whole sub forum is a complete farce.  With the exception of a few posters, I don't believe that most of the people posting here are honest.

Exactly. It's an assumption, not better or worse than the opposite one.

And that's also how you distinguish posts (and users) that are worth reading from those that are not, bulls and bears alike:

"No way Bitcoin could possibly fail. Only chance for that to happen would be Space Lizard manipulation. 10k USD per coin early next year, for sure!"

and

"Get out while you can! The bubble has finally popped for good. No chance it'll recover from this. The network and its currency is worthless!"

are equally worthless.

The only difference between bull trolls and bear trolls: among the latter there's a much larger share of newly registered accounts. Could be because of the ongoing bear market (and because the very earliest investors aren't bearish enough yet), but could also be because the bear trolls don't stick around once the market recovers.

I do, and what I see is pretty bad 

Maybe if you go outside the speculation sub you might be get a clue  

In other words:  Told you so. 
See # 14

There is still no reason to buy Bitcoin other than to trade or buy drugs.