The difference between government instituted currencies and Bitcoin is huge. - page 4.

memvola

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Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 01:22:47 AM

When you have a problem with your US Dollar, SOMEONE is responsible.
When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, NO ONE is responsible.

This isn't entirely true.

The problems you would be able to hold someone responsible for do not exist in Bitcoin. The problems you wouldn't be able to hold anyone other than yourself responsible for are almost the same. So there isn't much difference, other than Bitcoin being superior.

Of course there's a chance I don't get what you mean. What problems are we talking about?

Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 02:45:21 AM

In real life, not your Bitcoin world, there is a judicial system. Where is Bitcoins court? That's for starts..

Bitcoin is in real life. What makes you think you can't sue me for e.g. stealing bitcoins? That's absurd, of course you can sue and of course you can win. I'm not an advocate of courts, but imagining that they are in a different planet is just naive.

hazek

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Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 05:46:48 AM

You may not feel the same way.

We don't feel. We know as best/accurate as can be known.

sadpandatech

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Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 05:38:07 AM

Quote from: sadpandatech on June 25, 2012, 05:34:20 AM

that' a very corny analogy..

instincts vs nature is not equal to instincts vs concepts that are completely unnatural(i.e., money and economics are very unatural, man made concepts)

what I think is corny is posters coming into what I think is a serious opinion thread and tossing your little 2 cents that you know people will agree with, which hinders them from even considering the perspectives I or anyone attempts to articulate on the internet. this internet belittling is such a rampant phenomenon lately. but I must remain self controlled or they call you a troll.

And that's exactly all this thread became when you used that very corny analogy to state that you had no desire to view this from any other angle than the one your 'instincts' tell you is right.

So, the only one hindering anything is yourself. I see why you have such a hard time with the self responsibility aspect of a free market...

ridgemont4

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I'm sorry, I'm not knocking Bitcoin. I just don't think it's any better in theory than anything already tried before. In fact it's worse by many standards.
Remember, this is what I feel. You may not feel the same way.

I use the United States as the best example of why I believe Bitcoin is doomed to fail, even if it was truly democratic, or even worse, completely stripped of democracy which some feel is best. and why I say this is bad is because there is no more accountability of words and actions. Everything is anonymous, void of personality.. and mind me for saying this I really think it's utterly stupid, considering this fosters the rising up of a cult-like following, inevitably, where fear of the strong takes place of justice for those who are at less of an advantage in this setup.

hazek

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Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 05:30:09 AM

but when it comes to mocking me,

I do apologize for that..

Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 05:30:09 AM

belittling my sense of understanding, or censoring my opinions.. that's when it's confirmed within me that this is a failure.

..however I wasn't trying to belittle your sense of anything, or censor your opinion.

SaintFlow

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The first is by definition not flawed.

Great - we arrived at the corny analogy stage. Let me chime in:

Bitcoin is governed by the same forces that govern the workings of the sun
from which *mind you* the predecessors of your goverment took their power from!

Riddle me this:
All the presidents, kings and priests charged with responsibility,
can they actually do what you want them to?

ridgemont4

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Quote from: sadpandatech on June 25, 2012, 05:34:20 AM

that' a very corny analogy..

instincts vs nature is not equal to instincts vs concepts that are completely unnatural(i.e., money and economics are very unatural, man made concepts)

what I think is corny is posters coming into what I think is a serious opinion thread and tossing your little 2 cents that you know people will agree with, which hinders them from even considering the perspectives I or anyone attempts to articulate on the internet. this internet belittling is such a rampant phenomenon lately. but I must remain self controlled or they call you a troll.

hazek

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See I was right, there would have been no point explaining the principles. Unfortunately you can't even see the disadvantage of how limited in accuracy your intuition is.

Here's a hint. At one point people thought the Sun orbited the Earth just because they saw it rise in the east in the morning and set in the west in the evening and that's just one basic example of untold amount of examples in our history hence why we use the scientific method for higher accuracy when trying to understand how the world really works instead of our intuition.

So you go ahead and keep relying on your gut if you don't care whether or not you make a mistake that most likely could have been avoided if you used the scientific method. I on the other hand like the best possible accuracy.

sadpandatech

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that's a very corny analogy..

instincts vs nature is not equal to instincts vs concepts that are completely unnatural(i.e., money and economics are very unatural, man made concepts)

ridgemont4

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Quote from: hazek on June 25, 2012, 05:25:07 AM

Look, I'll be kind because it's morning, I just woke up 30min ago, am still in a good mood after stretching my body so I'll explain it to you.

Why you don't have a point has nothing to do with the way you presented your point but everything to do with the validity of your point. Your point is invalid. Now the reason you don't think so is simple too! You lack the appropriate market regulated by strictly market consumers (i.e. free market) economics literacy. In other words you are illiterate in free market economics. And that's all there is. You just haven't learned all the economic principles most people around here know to be true not because they think so but because they test these principles over and over and over again in their daily lives and they always turn up to be true.

Now it's pointless for me to go into detail explaining what these principles are if you don't recognize your illiteracy and aren't open to learning them. If that isn't the case however you can head on over to www.mises.org and start learning, they have an amazing collection of reading material available in large part for completely free.

What material does an elephant need to learn to have the intellect to run away from shore hours BEFORE a Tsunami producing earthquake hits? See, I believe in intuition and other things. Hence I don't need to speak YOUR language to know what is true. Neither did those animals who ran from the coast hours before the earthquake. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/08/25/strange-behavior-detected-in-animals-before-earthquake/

Everything living has a need, and that is the root. I can know instinctively when there is no root in something. I don't need to know economic jargon or any principles, although it WOULD make me some more literate as you mentioned. It's not necessary, in order for me to know the truth. Now we can end it here or I will gladly continue. I've got nothing to lose. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I have NO point. If so then carry on in another direction. but when it comes to mocking me, belittling my sense of understanding, or censoring my opinions.. that's when it's confirmed within me that this is a failure.

hazek

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Look, I'll be kind because it's morning, I just woke up 30min ago, am still in a good mood after stretching my body so I'll explain it to you.

Why you don't have a point has nothing to do with the way you presented your point but everything to do with the validity of your point. Your point is invalid. Now the reason you don't think so is simple too! You lack the appropriate market regulated by strictly market consumers (i.e. free market) economics literacy. In other words you are illiterate in free market economics. And that's all. You just haven't learned all the economic principles most people around here know to be true not because they think so but because they test these principles over and over and over again in their daily lives and they always turn up to be true.

Now it's pointless for me to go into detail explaining what these principles are if you don't recognize your illiteracy and aren't open to learning them. If that isn't the case however you can head on over to www.mises.org and start learning, they have an amazing collection of reading material available in large part for entierly free.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

http://www.judge.me/ is for arbitration between two people. The government would do well to learn arbitration rather than "ruling"

ridgemont4

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Quote from: hazek on June 25, 2012, 05:08:29 AM

Bwahahaha Thanks for the nice laugh OP. Roll Eyes

Yeah I'm not very good at expressing my points.. Even I cringe at my own weak attempt to express a point. but does that really mean I don't have a point? It's like a retard trying to save your life.. Wtf is he saying?? Or a dog barking trying to tell you something.. Yeah I might just be a dog barking to you but really... that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Hence for that reason, I have decided before making this thread that I would make no effort to debate. Rather just post what I feel and move on. It's not like I'm changing anything or anyone really cares about what I have to say. That's human nature. No one cares. No one is worried. Everything is arbitrary. Why things work and why they don't work doesn't matter.. Each man for himself...

hazek

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Bwahahaha Thanks for the nice laugh OP. Roll Eyes

julz

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Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 01:22:47 AM

When you have a problem with your US Dollar, SOMEONE is responsible.
When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, NO ONE is responsible.
...

Nice try.. but to repair your flawed comparison, it'd need to be something more like:

Quote

When you have a problem with your US Dollar *in cash*, ~~SOMEONE~~ NO ONE is responsible.
When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, NO ONE is responsible.

..and to both of those you could add:

Quote

... unless you choose to utilize(or establish) a trusted intermediary

And that's charitably assuming you're not conflating macro problems with USD/Bitcoin vs an individual's problems with handling the stuff (but it rather seems you are).

Bitcoin can be reasonably considered a protocol or a 'base' upon which layers of protections can be built and optionally used.
Just like the physical cash of the USD offers no direct protection and has a complex centralized electronic infrastructure which does in some circumstances offer merchant and/or consumer protections; if the Bitcoin system needs such protections to move into certain niches, then it seems likely the market will produce offerings on top of it to achieve that.

If you're talking about more macroscopic issues.. well the 'responsibility' is different for sure, but in some ways comparable.
Theoretically - you influence those who direct US Dollar policy through your vote... and theoretically with bitcoin, the network's users/miners influence the various client/library developers (and thus which is the surviving blockchain) by 'voting with their feet' so to speak.

ridgemont4

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Quote from: TraderTimm on June 25, 2012, 02:35:55 AM

Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 01:22:47 AM

When you have a problem with your US Dollar, SOMEONE is responsible.
When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, NO ONE is responsible.

"Ok" you say. "What's your point?".. **WHOA**

< snip >

There *ALWAYS* need to be someone or something responsible for everything.. Bitcoin is chaos. The United States is Chaos. Why? Because people are Chaos and do not generally look for collective solutions unless a shallow inward incentive is sold to them. A shallow interpretation of freedom is that very incentive peddled upon the ignorant majority, employed/preached in every system doomed to fail.

I'm sorry Bitcoiners.. this is not going to work out logically for you.

When you have a problem with the US Dollar, someone is responsible - but thanks to a corrupt system they'll pay a settlement fee and get back to ripping someone off.

When you have a problem with bitcoin, you probably didn't read something correctly, resulting in your losing your coins through your own incompetence. Much similar to losing your cash somewhere, except in this case a bearded idiot who has his thumb mashed on the 'print' button isn't ruining bitcoin -- just the dollar.

Bitcoin is chaos?

Chaos is blocks processed every 9 - 10 minutes? Chaos is a pre-determined supply? Chaos is $1.27 MILLION in estimated transaction volume on a dollar basis?

What color is the sky in your world, and if you can, tell us what the magical caterpillar said to you about bitcoin?

Are you completely insane?

And please note - if you had some rational, logical and procedural protest about bitcoin (protocol, etc..) I'd take you seriously. But what you wrote had the air of someone finishing a bender with their favorite hallucinogens.

I suggest you read more about what you are trying to comprehend.

I'm supposed to trust someone like you? Case in point..

Maybe you're the one hallucinating because everything you just wrote completely validates my sentiment.

In real life, not your Bitcoin world, there is a judicial system. Where is Bitcoins court? That's for starts..

TraderTimm

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Quote from: ridgemont4 on June 25, 2012, 01:22:47 AM

When you have a problem with your US Dollar, SOMEONE is responsible.
When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, NO ONE is responsible.

"Ok" you say. "What's your point?".. **WHOA**

< snip >

There *ALWAYS* need to be someone or something responsible for everything.. Bitcoin is chaos. The United States is Chaos. Why? Because people are Chaos and do not generally look for collective solutions unless a shallow inward incentive is sold to them. A shallow interpretation of freedom is that very incentive peddled upon the ignorant majority, employed/preached in every system doomed to fail.

I'm sorry Bitcoiners.. this is not going to work out logically for you.

When you have a problem with the US Dollar, someone is responsible - but thanks to a corrupt system they'll pay a settlement fee and get back to ripping someone off.

When you have a problem with bitcoin, you probably didn't read something correctly, resulting in your losing your coins through your own incompetence. Much similar to losing your cash somewhere, except in this case a bearded idiot who has his thumb mashed on the 'print' button isn't ruining bitcoin -- just the dollar.

Bitcoin is chaos?

Chaos is blocks processed every 9 - 10 minutes? Chaos is a pre-determined supply? Chaos is $1.27 MILLION in estimated transaction volume on a dollar basis?

What color is the sky in your world, and if you can, tell us what the magical caterpillar said to you about bitcoin?

Are you completely insane?

And please note - if you had some rational, logical and procedural protest about bitcoin (protocol, etc..) I'd take you seriously. But what you wrote had the air of someone finishing a bender with their favorite hallucinogens.

I suggest you read more about what you are trying to comprehend.

ridgemont4

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The only thing similar about Bitcoin that I've seen, is **special interests** manipulating its' perception. Censorship, for example. Inhibiting the thoughts deriving from those who are not convinced.

Foxpup

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Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023

I have a problem with my dollar. It's not worth as much as it was when I got it. Who is this SOMEONE who is responsible? Do they have a complaint hotline?

drakahn

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When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, YOU are responsible.

Topic: The difference between government instituted currencies and Bitcoin is huge. - page 4. (Read 5094 times)