It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.
So... what reality is more material: paperbugs, cryptobugs, or goldbugs? 
Topic: The future of Bitcoin is illegal - page 8. (Read 20070 times)
Now I'm not sure what did you mean by saying:
It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.
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A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.
It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.
ahh...yes, now I see. All has become clear...(witw?)
Now I'm not sure what did you mean by saying:
A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.
A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.
It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.
I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore. Or why.
Now I'm not sure what did you mean by saying:Quote
A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.
The number of coins in existence is fixed. But that doesn't mean that the supply is fixed. Supply refers to the amount of coins that sellers are willing to part with at a given price. If it were illegal to transact with or sell bitcoins, I don't see many current holders simply deleting their wallets. But they might be less willing to sell their coins if doing so exposed them to the risk of criminal sanctions.
This is pure fantasy. Laws aren't passed in a day. If it looks like Bitcoin will become illegal in an important country, the large holders will sell at once. Get their money out while it is possible without criminalizing themselves. I will. No doubt about that. And I'll try to be the first to sell, because the value will soon fall lower than most people here can remember.Quote
The prohibition of illicit drugs does relatively little to deter users
Eh? Yes, it does. Not a little, it does a lot to deter users. It has a large impact. Drunk drivers was a problem as well before driving while drunk was criminalized.Quote
but it does make sellers demand a fairly substantial risk premium.
So you think the future of bitcoin is in taking risk premium for selling them? Why not just use a legal payment method, and drop the risk premium? This is just a profit opportunity...
Newsflash: Profit motive causes trade. I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore. Or why.
The point is, a growing list of PM dealers are trading their metal for bitcoins. They see it as a viable trading option.
Trading means today they'll buy bitcoins and sell gold, and tomorrow they'll buy gold and sell bitcoins. This is just a profit opportunity and is different to "parting with their metal for bitcoins". It's a growing list of people trying to profit from bitcoin, Severian. People that purchase bitcoins instead of gold believe that bitcoin will appreciate faster to fiat money than gold. That doesn't mean they will ditch their gold and silver for bitcoins!
It doesn't matter what they do with the bitcoins after they get them. The point is, a growing list of PM dealers are trading their metal for bitcoins. They see it as a viable trading option.
That speaks volumes about the longterm viability of the currency. How many PM dealers are trading their metal for Linden dollars or whatever they call EVE money?
So yes, it's a growing list.
It's a growing list of people trying to profit from bitcoin, Severian. People that purchase bitcoins instead of gold believe that bitcoin will appreciate faster to fiat money than gold. That doesn't mean they will ditch their gold and silver for bitcoins! I use Bitcoin because it is usually simpler and faster and cheaper and more secure than all other ways of international money transfer.
In my opinion the future is legal. I sell coins every day to people who use the coins to pay for services or as a store of value / investment. Nothing of this is illegal. And the value will of course drop to the bottom if Bitcoin is deemed illegal. Both I and most other people will get rid of all we have as soon as possible, and it is going to be hard to do it in a legal way.
Simpler? Than going to a bank and doing an IBAN transfer? Man, cheaper maybe but not simpler. Getting money in and out of Bitcoin is an extreme hassle for most people.In my opinion the future is legal. I sell coins every day to people who use the coins to pay for services or as a store of value / investment. Nothing of this is illegal. And the value will of course drop to the bottom if Bitcoin is deemed illegal. Both I and most other people will get rid of all we have as soon as possible, and it is going to be hard to do it in a legal way.
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I don't think, for most people, it's a substantially better way to transfer money internationally. It's pretty slow, there is a hassle getting money in and out the system, and transfers won't be free forever.
Slow? Compared to banks? Have you ever done an international money transfer? It takes 4 to 5 days to transfer money to Japan from here. A Bitcoin transaction has 6 confirmations in an hour by average. And there is no risk of fraud. Nobody can take the coins back when they are sent.Quote
Plus, for people to use Bitcoin to transfer money, they need to be aware of it, and they need to make a special effort to use it. Why would anyone spend money in order to market the system like that? They would need a reason, and that means exchange fees.
A lot of people do. I've sold bitcoins to more than 400 people. IRC and e-mail. Quote
As to your 2nd point, if Bitcoin is made illegal somewhere then the value will soar. And of course people will be able to use it legally in another country.
I proved the opposite in simple economic terms in another posting. Demand will go down. Supply stays exactly the same.Other factors which will also contribute to the fall if Bitcoin is made illegal. Development will stop. A lot of good services will stop. Exchanges will shut down. People with a lot of coins will obviously try to sell before the exchanges close their doors.
A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.
Actually this is not true, Severian. Goldbugs are people that have very strong common sense compared to paperbugs or cryptobugs.Actually this is not true, Severian. Goldbugs are people that have very strong common sense compared to paperbugs or cryptobugs.
The biggest goldbug in my town recently agreed to take bitcoins from me. I'd spent months trying to get him to take a look at Bitcoin, to no avail. It took a well-heeled couple coming into his store last week and bringing Bitcoin up to make him look at it. He's now willing to trade bitcoins. He's as conservative and common-sense as they go, having been in biz since the 70's.
So yes, it's a growing list.
A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.
Actually this is not true, Severian. Goldbugs are people that have very strong common sense compared to paperbugs or cryptobugs. I had a look at that list and I didn't see anything worth a fuck
I know gold and silver aren't as valuable or as durable as your "Visa money", but for those people that lack your faith in credit-based currency instruments, there's a rising list of metal traders:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Precious_.26_Base_Metals.2FCoins
When PM dealers are trading their stash for a currency, it's probably going to stick around for a awhile.
I had a look at that list and I didn't see anything worth a fuck
I know gold and silver aren't as valuable or as durable as your "Visa money", but for those people that lack your faith in credit-based currency instruments, there's a rising list of metal traders:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Precious_.26_Base_Metals.2FCoins
When PM dealers are trading their stash for a currency, it's probably going to stick around for a awhile.
There's nothing other than drugs to spend them on.
You can't buy anything with Bitcoin, and 90% of Bitcoin investments are a scam.
http://coinabul.com/
Gold and silver != drugs....
I am interested in seeing the value of those coins go up vs. the USD so that I can sell my coins for USD in future. For me, there's no other reason to have them.
The future of bitcoin is bright, Charlie. Get over it. And the value will of course drop to the bottom if Bitcoin is deemed illegal. Both I and most other people will get rid of all we have as soon as possible, and it is going to be hard to do it in a legal way.
I'm not convinced that's true. After all, prohibition has never made illicit drugs cheap, quite the opposite!Bitcoins however are produced in the same amounts no matter the legality. Making them illegal just means fewer people will want them, which makes demand go down when the supply stays exactly the same. If Bitcoin were made illegal tomorrow, all legal bitcoins will go on the market today. And you can see how this thread alone makes the market nervous.
A currency can't survive on speculation alone, at some point you have to exchange it for goods or services.
And people are exchanging bitcoins for goods and services. But right now many of them are going through the intermediary of fiat. I've argued that Bitcoin is currently operating a lot like gold, i.e. a store of value that few people use as a direct medium of exchange. But bitcoins have tremendous potential to be an absolutely amazing direct medium of exchange. It's just that becoming a direct medium of exchange (as opposed to a store of value) relies much more heavily on network effects. So it will take longer. But I have no doubt that we'll get there. I'd say Bitcoin is doing pretty well for a kid who hasn't even celebrated his fourth birthday.
The legitimacy boost of "This is a thing that worries us" is global and any actual cracking down would be local. We'll never really know the exact effect even if it happens because it will probably happen in response to a period of rapid increase in interest.
It is already seen by many as a way to get around laws, so it might not be hurt much by a law. Though you do lose the plausible deniability that you could be doing something legal with it if just owning it is illegal.
Those are really great points, thanks! It is already seen by many as a way to get around laws, so it might not be hurt much by a law. Though you do lose the plausible deniability that you could be doing something legal with it if just owning it is illegal.
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