Topic: The future of Bitcoin is illegal - page 9. (Read 20070 times)

Insofar I am aware, mobile payments in those areas is developing (e.g., payment by SMS).

In my opinion, we need some more years for the back lands to sufficiently upgrade on mobile networking (internet) and devices (smartphones) before we may expect BTC to lift off in those areas of the world. This element of time can hardly be considered as a blockade for BTC, because the more spread out the use of BTC is at that time, the better it will gain traction in less developed areas of the world.

In terms of mobile payments, we could use progress on speedy payment confirmation and a mobile BTC client that is lightweight and data-thin. I am yet to make/receive my first mobile Android BTC payment....  

You're correct in reminding the OP about Bitcoin's function as a store of value, but bear in mind, to the OP's point, that in many countries on this planet, gaining control of one's own wealth is actually illegal.  Prohibitions against metals ownership, currency exchanges, and currency transport exist in most countries in varying degrees, and are specifically designed to disable people's ability to preserve and move their wealth.  And so, to the extent that Bitcoin is used to protect savings (which I agree with you, it is), it's potentially yet another bullet on the OP's "illegal uses" list, as opposed to the "legal uses" list.   Most countries (including USA in 1933) have, at least once, made wealth preservation strategies illegal, and will likely do so again as the worldwide ponzi economy continues to deteriorate.

Haha, I wasn't trying to convince you, but I think it's quite rude to call me a liar considering you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Luckily I don't care what you think.

I had a look at that list and I didn't see anything worth a fuck that either isn't an exchange or doesn't deal mainly in cash with BTC transactions offered as a little thing on the side. If I am missing something feel free to point it out.

A currency can't survive on speculation alone, at some point you have to exchange it for goods or services.

Not that I'm aware of...I mean, not directly.  A cheap Ellet would go a long way

The legitimacy boost of "This is a thing that worries us" is global and any actual cracking down would be local. We'll never really know the exact effect even if it happens because it will probably happen in response to a period of rapid increase in interest.

It is already seen by many as a way to get around laws, so it might not be hurt much by a law. Though you do lose the plausible deniability that you could be doing something legal with it if just owning it is illegal.

The number of coins in existence is fixed. But that doesn't mean that the supply is fixed. Supply refers to the amount of coins that sellers are willing to part with at a given price.  If it were illegal to transact with or sell bitcoins, I don't see many current holders simply deleting their wallets.  But they might be less willing to sell their coins if doing so exposed them to the risk of criminal sanctions.  So presumably the supply curve would be shifted to the right.  On the other hand, the demand curve would presumably shift to the left.  So the ultimate effect on price is not immediately obvious.  My guess is that the effect on demand would be greater than the effect on supply so I'd expect a price drop.  That's the opposite of what you see with the prohibition of illicit drugs where the effects on supply dominate the effects on demand.  The prohibition of illicit drugs does relatively little to deter users, but it does make sellers demand a fairly substantial risk premium.

This paragraph is baffling. My big profit came from coins I sold last summer. I didn't buy them last summer. At no point did I say that I bought them last summer. I did indeed buy into BTC when the price was a fraction of a dollar.

As for the rest, I thought your post was very well written, if slightly zealous, but I don't think anything you have said has any impact on my argument. You speak in rousing terms about young intelligent people getting together to start Bitcoin businesses. Where are they? Where are the successful Bitcoin businesses that aren't exchanges or money movers of some kind? The fact that the only legitimate successful businesses are in the business of moving Bitcoins from national currencies and back merely serves to underline the fundamentally auxiliary nature of Bitcoin.


Someone else mentioned this type of thing earlier and I wanted to comment. Very cool thinking and it appeals to me a lot. Is anyone actually trying to put this into action?

What, technically, can be done to centralize Bitcoin? I mean, I can see how one could centralize the addition of new features, but, you can undo what's been done.  Bitcoin is Bitcoin...it's not like it can just suddenly become this completely non-anonymous, heavily fee based network via a central authority...everyone running the software would have to agree...

If Bitcoin loses his decentralization it still will be valuable.

Another good use was pointed out in the excellent TEDx talk (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tedx-bitcoin-seasteading-and-3d-printing-how-technology-moves-society-115555):
the ultra poor -- those who have no means of establishing financial arrangements with banks and have no safe place to store their money -- could use Bitcoin not only as a bank but also as a global payment system. 

No doubt the cash like aspects of Bitcoin do encourage cash like use, especially in the same illegal ways cash is used; but to fail to see the global, society changing differences Bitcoin has from cash I think is short sighted.  Bitcoin is a bit more than drugs, porn, and guns.

Fiat money is designed to fail when not pegged to the value of something else. The value of the dollar was separated from the gold standard in 1971. How long does it have?


Bitcoin has value in itself. 

Hahaha. You've misunderstood me. The Ford comment is a criticism of a Chevy. I'm not criticizing Bitcoin, quite the opposite. I am sorry you thought my comment was a derogatory one about something you feel strongly about. It wasn't. It was pointing out a strength, not a weakness. It's a shame you don't see it that way.


I don't think anyone who is currently involved in Bitcoins is normal by definition. It is a very, very niche thing that most people are completely unaware of. To even be aware of Bitcoins is unusual.

I'm not under the misapprehension that my Bitcoin profits are a reflection of any talent. I took a gamble with a thousand bucks and got very lucky indeed. The same with future profits.

I also don't really see hoarding Bitcoins in the hope of them raising in value as a "use"

I paid every penny I owed in taxes as I do with all the money I earn on investments, I have no idea why you are even floating the possibility that I might not have.


I said those things because I believe them, not to inflame your sensibilities. I don't have any interest or motive for getting you all riled up, and to be honest I'm surprised things have gone that way.


What exactly do you use them for?


I'm not quite at the level of involvement to call myself a Bitcoin enthusiast myself, but I do have nothing but good things to say about them. I'm sorry that you are so pissed off by me stating that the vast majority of Bitcoin investment vehicles have turned out to be scams, and that there isn't anything to buy with them (other than drugs) that couldn't be bought more simply, with less risk of fraud and more easily with whatever the local currency is. If you find that inflammatory, it is a shame, because to me those are incontrovertible facts and putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "TROLL" isn't going to change that. For me a discussion takes place around the facts, not in denial of them.

I'd add gain control of their own wealth to that list.  With infinite QE happening as we speak, keeping cash around is folly.  Not everyone involved in bitcoin is trying to circumvent laws and regulations, in the same way that not all people who hoard gold are trying to do so. 

Bold my emphasis. A very large proportion of the world's population do not have a FICO score let alone a good one, credit cards or even a bank account. They are in fact the world's poor, and for them Bitcoin may well be the only alternative to cash or paying usurious service charges. So unless one criminalizes poverty there is a huge legal market for Bitcoin.

By the way online purchase is a horrible model for illegal drugs, particularly the highly addictive ones. How many heroin addicts are going to wait two weeks to get their fix in the mail? No they will buy from the local dealer for cash and go into the nearest dark alley to shoot up. Ditto for crack meth etc.

Did you know you can buy gold directly with bitcoin? (https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/topic/384-new-bitcoin-for-gold-exchange)





Because Bitcoin is an investment, one bitcoin will probably continue to buy more Amazon stuff because of that. Have you heard of the Gartner Hype Cycle?








plouf // Jun 29, 2011 at 2:25 pm

I paid my rent in bitcoins today.



This is the information era.

Wild speculation passed as fact 101.

The exact effects in supply and demand are extremely unpredictable.

Hi. I was talking about society as a whole. The point that I was trying to make is that I don't have a political agenda for using Bitcoin. I don't really see trying to get the price up as anyway similar to a pump and dump.

I think this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77151.0;all


Will bring worldwide publicity to BTC if it is done correctly.

I'm not sure why you think this is a troll thread. Because I hold opinions that are different to the majority of people here? Tough shit man. If you want Bitcoin to be a currency to be widely adopted, you're going to have to accept that it's not a social club for people who all think the same. I'm happy to respect your opinions if you want to chime in. To be honest I think you are the one trolling, because you are doing nothing to contribute to the discussion. Feel free to contribute intelligently and prove me wrong.

That goes for the other guy who posted just to accuse myself and others of being trolls too.

Bitcoin's consequences could be mind boggling.