Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 44. (Read 32058 times)

You seem to be arguing the exact opposite of what you are proclaiming to want to achieve in your labelling the decision regarding what is separate from bitcoin and what is connected to bitcoin as politics rather than logic.

In that respect, to cause separate sections for bitcoin related projects by proclaiming them NOT sufficiently connected to bitcoin (on chain blah blah blah) would seem to be a political decision rather than a logical one.. for some of the reasons that have already been asserted in responses from ETFbitcoin and mine.

Because this thread actually about LN for Bitcoin (although LN support many cryptocurrency) and some parts of LN directly involve Bitcoin network (such as HTLC script used to open and close channel).


While Lightning Network is off-chain system, IMO it can't be categorized as 3rd party since it's possible user have control over their Bitcoin.

Just for a laugh I sent 500,000 sats via LN from my Eclair (mobile phone) wallet to the Phoenix (Tablet) wallet in one TX costing 51 sats.  The original 1,000,000 on chain TX cost ~7,250 sats so it's a stark contrast in TX fees for on-chain Vs off chain.  (I haven't tweeked any TX request fees on either device).

As we supposed, a new channel was created in under two minutes with an outbound figure of 499,000 sats (1,000 sat fee to open a new channel) and an inbound component of ~ 239,000 sats.

So...

I have 1,501,000 sats OUTBOUND capacity in my Phoenix Wallet with three channels open and ~ 455,000 sats INBOUND capacity combined.

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Now all I have to do is find venues around Brisbane that accept BTC either on or off chain and test out transactions in a real world setting which is something I've been meaning to do for quite a long time now.

You have a valid point, any discussions related to 3rd party offchain systems should be in a separate topic.

Lightning Network & Liquid, and any other offchain systems should not be considered as bitcoin, IMO.
Just as any Exchange's separate offchain database is excluded from discussion here , so too should other 3rd party offchain networks.
They should have their own separate topics to avoid confusion,
but as you mentioned earlier, Politics does seem to be determining the outcomes here instead of logic.

I don't claim to be any kind of expert in terms of what is a shitcoin and what is not (and even worse when it comes to overviewing what topics go in which sections of the forum), but on the idea of whether lightning network is a shitcoin, that seems so 2017/2018 or perhaps there might have been some recent valid assertions that did not get significantly and sufficiently rebutted in recent times.

Anyhow, it seems to me that even if there are some implementation difficulties with lightning over the past few years, through lightning network, there is no attempt to print some kind of token separate from bitcoin.. so merely attempting to improve bitcoin's liquidity through second-layer solutions, such as lightning network does not even seem close to what various shitcoins (I think that you were referring to them as alts) are doing and have been doing..  

Shitcoins, such as ethereum and its various scam projects such as ICOs and DEFI (and cannot forget about the shitty NFT scams), the various bcashes and/or other shitcoins with their own blocks are not generally building on bitcoin but attempting to build their own ecosystem that is separate from bitcoin but rides off of bitcoins security, good will and good name to scam or deceive people, even if some of them might some day either get absorbed into bitcoin or have some kind of useful complement to bitcoin that might end up serving on as a second layer.  

I cannot think of any shitcoin whether we are referring to any of the bcashes or their related projects or Ethereum or any shit built in connection with it whether ICOs, or the current shits of the day that are called DEFI and/or NFTs, that currently is even close to having some bitcoin complements that would thereby allow them to NOT be put in the alt coin section..

but I hardly even know what various altcoin (shitcoin) threads on the forum are because I generally avoid those kinds of various non-bitcoin topics on the forum (because I do not want to fill my head up with distracting bullshit and more nonsense than my head is already tending to be filled with) except I don't really mind bashing various shitcoins and non-bitcoin related projects, scams and issues when they come up in various bitcoin related threads and present themselves as if they are either similar to bitcoin or better than bitcoin or used as a vehicle to naysay bitcoin (suggesting that they cure some assumed bitcoin defects.. blah blah blah), when I am in the mood or have time for such bashenings towards such non-bitcoin projects that bleed into bitcoin threads on a fairly regular basis...  

Why isn't this thread in the altcoin section?  Can anyone make a shitcoin fork and tie it to Bitcoin's blockchain and be able to post wherever they want on the forum or is this something reserved only for the Core development team?

I'm just curious at the politics that are behind the lightning network getting an altcoin pass while it's supporters call other projects shitcoins...  What about this shitcoin has some Bitcoin supporters so willing to look the other way?  I'm genuinely curious. 

No. Any site I've seen uses the same exchange rate for on-chain Bitcoin and LN Bitcoin. Only fees are different, and that might include an additional cost for on-chain consolidation (I've seen a payment processor add 0.0002 BTC to the on-chain Bitcoin amount for this).