haha....
http://www.quora.com/Business-in-Japan/Which-is-the-best-Bank-to-open-a-corporate-account-%E6%B3%95%E4%BA%BA%E5%8F%A3%E5%BA%A7-in-Japan
"There is no good bank to open a corporate account at in Japan. As far as I can tell based on my experience, they pretty much all suck. They have lousy service (amazing in a country where all the other service industries are so good) and staggeringly high fees. It's pretty much an oligopoly. If you have even a single Japanese employee, you'll have to deal with a Japanese bank for tax deposits and such.
...
Bear in mind that this is a country where everyone gets screwed by the banks. Japanese banks are so bad, you'll long for Bank of America. $6 to deposit a single check! ATM fees that are higher after 5pm (in Japan, machines get paid overtime, apparently)! Virtually everything has to be done in person!"
Topic: The question everybody is asking but nobody has shared the solution to yet - page 3. (Read 4132 times)
August 18, 2013, 12:57:02 PM
August 18, 2013, 12:56:38 PM
Good luck to everyone arbitraging BTC --> MtGox JPY --> JPY --> USD --> Bitstamp USD --> BTC
You will pay a few percent at each step. 
August 18, 2013, 12:53:51 PM
Good luck to everyone arbitraging BTC --> MtGox JPY --> JPY --> USD --> Bitstamp USD --> BTC
You will pay a few percent at each step. BTC --> MtGox JPY = 2.5% + your trading fee, let's say that's 0.3% = 2.8%
Mtgox JPY -> JPY = 0 I think (or some flat fee, which is negligible if you're doing large enough chunks at a time)
JPY --> USD = .1% or less unless your bank gouges you, plus another flat wire fee
USD --> Bitstamp USD = 0.2% (again for high-volume account)
total = approx 3.1% to 3.4%
That leaves a solid 6 percent profit on the table. If anyone who has a Japanese bank account would like to team up to make this happen, let me know. I have bots which can do the trades efficiently and high volume mtgox and bitstamp accounts (= lowest fee tiers). I also have access to enough capital to make it worth while. Only thing I don't have is a Japanese bank account in the hands of someone I trust. Or do it yourself, I will applaud you and help in any way I can. I agree with joesmoe2012, this needs to be done for the good of the whole system.
August 18, 2013, 12:52:30 PM
here you go, the steps involved...
http://www.healyconsultants.com/company-incorporation/japan-company-set-up.htm
http://www.healyconsultants.com/fees.html costs about 10k in consulting fees... would be nice if there was a japanese speaking member who could do this instead
http://www.healyconsultants.com/company-incorporation/japan-company-set-up.htm
http://www.healyconsultants.com/fees.html costs about 10k in consulting fees... would be nice if there was a japanese speaking member who could do this instead
August 18, 2013, 12:46:05 PM
Thank you, joesmoe2012, for starting this thread. This is arguably the most important thread on bitcointalk right now.
August 18, 2013, 12:45:20 PM
Good luck to everyone arbitraging BTC --> MtGox JPY --> JPY --> USD --> Bitstamp USD --> BTC !
If you are successful and report it here it will likely decrease arbitrage opportunity since it would change market confidence. It's possible that psychological effect would have as great an effect in reducing gap as increasing bitcoin supply in JPY market. Thus I don't expect to hear many positive results other than people who do an experiment for fun. Nevertheless I will be happy to be wrong!
Interestingly it might be possible to distinguish the supply and market perception effects.
Arbitrage should bring the Mtgox JPY price to parity with Bitstamp USD given USD/JPY exchange rate. Then the change in the gap with MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD between now and when JPY exchange parity is achieved will show the psychological shift since a reasonable hypothesis is that most people who are causing the gap on MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD (by buying at premium as opposed to waiting) do not have the possibility to exit via MtGox JPY --> JPY --> currency exchange --> USD.
If you are successful and report it here it will likely decrease arbitrage opportunity since it would change market confidence. It's possible that psychological effect would have as great an effect in reducing gap as increasing bitcoin supply in JPY market. Thus I don't expect to hear many positive results other than people who do an experiment for fun. Nevertheless I will be happy to be wrong!
Interestingly it might be possible to distinguish the supply and market perception effects.
Arbitrage should bring the Mtgox JPY price to parity with Bitstamp USD given USD/JPY exchange rate. Then the change in the gap with MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD between now and when JPY exchange parity is achieved will show the psychological shift since a reasonable hypothesis is that most people who are causing the gap on MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD (by buying at premium as opposed to waiting) do not have the possibility to exit via MtGox JPY --> JPY --> currency exchange --> USD.
There's more to this than psychology. Many of the businesses and people that use Mtgox actually need the fiat. The fiat needs to actually move.
August 18, 2013, 12:43:09 PM
Good luck to everyone arbitraging BTC --> MtGox JPY --> JPY --> USD --> Bitstamp USD --> BTC
You will pay a few percent at each step. at large sums that is negotiable....
August 18, 2013, 12:06:19 PM
Good luck to everyone arbitraging BTC --> MtGox JPY --> JPY --> USD --> Bitstamp USD --> BTC
You will pay a few percent at each step. August 18, 2013, 11:15:41 AM
Good luck to everyone arbitraging BTC --> MtGox JPY --> JPY --> USD --> Bitstamp USD --> BTC !
If you are successful and report it here it will likely decrease arbitrage opportunity since it would change market confidence. It's possible that psychological effect would have as great an effect in reducing gap as increasing bitcoin supply in JPY market. Thus I don't expect to hear many positive results other than people who do an experiment for fun. Nevertheless I will be happy to be wrong!
Interestingly it might be possible to distinguish the supply and market perception effects.
Arbitrage should bring the Mtgox JPY price to parity with Bitstamp USD given USD/JPY exchange rate. Then the change in the gap with MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD between now and when JPY exchange parity is achieved will show the psychological shift since a reasonable hypothesis is that most people who are causing the gap on MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD (by buying at premium as opposed to waiting) do not have the possibility to exit via MtGox JPY --> JPY --> currency exchange --> USD.
If you are successful and report it here it will likely decrease arbitrage opportunity since it would change market confidence. It's possible that psychological effect would have as great an effect in reducing gap as increasing bitcoin supply in JPY market. Thus I don't expect to hear many positive results other than people who do an experiment for fun. Nevertheless I will be happy to be wrong!
Interestingly it might be possible to distinguish the supply and market perception effects.
Arbitrage should bring the Mtgox JPY price to parity with Bitstamp USD given USD/JPY exchange rate. Then the change in the gap with MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD between now and when JPY exchange parity is achieved will show the psychological shift since a reasonable hypothesis is that most people who are causing the gap on MtGox USD / Bitstamp USD (by buying at premium as opposed to waiting) do not have the possibility to exit via MtGox JPY --> JPY --> currency exchange --> USD.
August 18, 2013, 05:11:23 AM
Just performed an MTGox withdrawal to a Japanese local domestic account. Lets see how long they are taking now for local transfers.
let us know ty for update
August 18, 2013, 03:27:32 AM
thanks for the update. I think it will clear first thing tomorrow morning.
Make sure you spell your name right in japanese, what fucked up my transfer initially.
Make sure you spell your name right in japanese, what fucked up my transfer initially.
August 17, 2013, 04:43:48 PM
I too would like to see a price difference (on average) not larger than 2 $ between MtGox and Bitstamp.
So I wish you good luck with establishing an arbitrage scheme. But I suspect this has already been going
on by JPY, on a scale small enough so the difference stays above 8% (ensuring a nice profit).
So I wish you good luck with establishing an arbitrage scheme. But I suspect this has already been going
on by JPY, on a scale small enough so the difference stays above 8% (ensuring a nice profit).
August 17, 2013, 03:59:05 PM
Okay, so how do we make this happen?
August 17, 2013, 03:21:57 PM
Here's a quote from another forum...
"Talk to a Union Bank branch in the United States. Union Bank is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group. They may be able to set you up with an account in Japan which can accept domestic Japan wire transfers. "For more information, call Union Bank's Foreign Exchange Specialists at 1-866-868-4034."
I wrote that. The point here is that Union Bank (US) is wholly owned by the biggest bank in Japan. If you need to do a transaction in Japan from the US, they can probably handle it. "Talk to a Union Bank branch in the United States. Union Bank is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group. They may be able to set you up with an account in Japan which can accept domestic Japan wire transfers. "For more information, call Union Bank's Foreign Exchange Specialists at 1-866-868-4034."
HSBC is headquartered in London.
August 17, 2013, 02:22:48 PM
I also think we should set up a japan based arbitrage operation with investment opportunities....
All we need is a few Japanese people with bank accounts right ?
August 17, 2013, 12:26:26 PM
That's a SWIFT from gox to polish bank account denominated in EURO but in japanese yen (so bank will convert upon arrival).
SWIFT transfer is futile at the moment. EUR (SEPA) or PLN (domestic) will be much faster.I wonder if SWIFT to japan works faster though or if its the same regulation.
Fidelity and Schwab both allow SWIFT transfers into their japanese banks, but i'm not sure if thats any faster.
August 17, 2013, 12:14:46 PM
That's a SWIFT from gox to polish bank account denominated in EURO but in japanese yen (so bank will convert upon arrival).
SWIFT transfer is futile at the moment. EUR (SEPA) or PLN (domestic) will be much faster. August 17, 2013, 12:03:42 PM
Poland, Malta, Cyprus, Slovenia are examples of countries where a foreigner can walk into the bank and open a personal account.
For arbitrage that's all that's necessary.
For arbitrage that's all that's necessary.
August 17, 2013, 11:49:56 AM
I think it's complicated. If you as a foreigner for example wants to open a bank account in Germany, you must first find a bank with an English registration form.
Nah. When I opened an account in Germany, the registration form was in German. The language isn't important as long as you understand it. Which is why many people choose to use a consultant to open an account in a foreign country. But many banks, in Germany and elsewhere, don't allow foreigners to open normal domestic accounts. Took me a while to find one. August 17, 2013, 11:49:24 AM
I was recommended by others to look into two possibliities....
Here's a quote from another forum...
"Talk to a Union Bank branch in the United States. Union Bank is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group. They may be able to set you up with an account in Japan which can accept domestic Japan wire transfers. "For more information, call Union Bank's Foreign Exchange Specialists at 1-866-868-4034."
The other person told me to open a USA HSBC account then call their global department and ask for it to be multi-denominated into JPY so that I can receive and send domestic transfers in japan.
Here's a quote from another forum...
"Talk to a Union Bank branch in the United States. Union Bank is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group. They may be able to set you up with an account in Japan which can accept domestic Japan wire transfers. "For more information, call Union Bank's Foreign Exchange Specialists at 1-866-868-4034."
The other person told me to open a USA HSBC account then call their global department and ask for it to be multi-denominated into JPY so that I can receive and send domestic transfers in japan.
Interesting, the first one is probably a good choice. Last time I checked with HSBC about international banking I believe they wanted you to have 100k plus on their books for that sort of service. Or maybe it was 50k pounds as I was looking for options when I first moved to Japan from Canada via the UK. UFJ is quite good. Give em a ring.
On the whole scalable thing. If you guys are talking about building an entirely new service to handle this sort of stuff. Don't do it in Japan, the banking system is still stuck in the stone age IMO. Well, just look at the issues Gox is having.
Many people (myself included) have well over 100k tied up in gox. THis is what is bad for the bitcoin economy in general. I beleive HSBC Premier requires 50k of whatever your local currency is to avoid the premier fees.
I've been in the application process with hsbc for over a week and haven't made any headway yet. The international HSBC people told me i neeeded first open a US HSBC account since i'm american and then talk to their international department or something like that.
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