The recent surge in Covid-19 is making vaccine makers to have a rethink - page 4.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: LogitechMouse on August 17, 2021, 08:45:15 AM

A new vaccine for a new strain of virus normally takes around 3 years at least for it to be done. The vaccines that have been created right now took only a year and knowing that viruses are slowly mutating and we're seeing it already, I just hope that the vaccine makers thought of this.

The normal route can take anywhere between 3 and 10 years. But in case of vaccines such as AstraZeneca and Sputnik V, they were given EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) in less than 6 months, and the phase III trial data was published later. And with the mutant strains, I guess booster shots will be authorized even quickly. At this point, no one can afford to wait 3+ years to authorize a vaccine, as the confirmed death toll is moving towards the 5 million mark. That means we may need to take a certain amount of risk, regarding the side effects.

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A new vaccine for a new strain of virus normally takes around 3 years at least for it to be done. The vaccines that have been created right now took only a year and knowing that viruses are slowly mutating and we're seeing it already, I just hope that the vaccine makers thought of this.

There are some vaccines that are also effective against the new variants of the virus like the Delta and the Alpha but I agree with what most people said here. Being vaccinated is one of the keys for the people not to get infected of the virus or if they will be infected then at least they will have just mild symptoms. I personally didn't take any vaccine here for some reasons but I'm not going outside either at all. I'm also taking Vit. C pills for immunity at least but there will be a time that I will take 2 dozes of vaccines too.

I think being healthy will help you to have a herd immunity. It will take time though.

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 17, 2021, 07:08:18 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on August 16, 2021, 07:15:05 AM

Quote from: sapnu on August 15, 2021, 08:37:40 AM

Even after a long run of vaccinating people, the surge in Covid 19 has never gotten better. This just proves how ineffective and how incomplete the vaccines that has been made. Different vitamins and antibodies that is contained in the vaccines are just not enough specially that new variants are emerging as time passes by. The virus is getting stronger and evolving yet the vaccines are staying still on how it is. Actually, we might be doomed already once the virus gets strong enough that we won't be able to contain it and all of the studies and expenses given for the vaccines will all be worthless.

I strongly agree.
~

Just a year and a half ago I would agree with both of you, guys, but recently I changed my mind under the influence of my close relatives that happen to be certified specialists in the fields of medicine and biotechnology. Here's what I've learned from them:

1. If 70%-80% of the people in the world(note that ending the pandemic in one particular country doesn't make sense in the modern world) were vaccinated the pandemic would start to decline and would vanish soon.

2. Although you can be infected with covid even when fully vaccinated, the vaccination greatly reduces the risk of hospitalization and death.

Please take those two things into account, and maybe consider vaccination.

I myself got my first vaccine shot 2 weeks ago, and now waiting for the second one.

They think about bad things about the vaccine since there are so many fake news over the net and many people believes it, maybe its time for those people who afraid to get vaccinated to think twice about the current situation. The current rise is due to the new variant floating around and if those unvaccinated people got infected they have a high risk to get hospitalized and that's what happening right now. As you said if many people will choose to get vaccinated for sure we will see those numbers decline. Hopefully many people will get convince that vaccine is helpful to us.

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Quote from: AicecreaME on August 16, 2021, 07:15:05 AM

Quote from: sapnu on August 15, 2021, 08:37:40 AM

Even after a long run of vaccinating people, the surge in Covid 19 has never gotten better. This just proves how ineffective and how incomplete the vaccines that has been made. Different vitamins and antibodies that is contained in the vaccines are just not enough specially that new variants are emerging as time passes by. The virus is getting stronger and evolving yet the vaccines are staying still on how it is. Actually, we might be doomed already once the virus gets strong enough that we won't be able to contain it and all of the studies and expenses given for the vaccines will all be worthless.

I strongly agree.
~

Just a year and a half ago I would agree with both of you, guys, but recently I changed my mind under the influence of my close relatives that happen to be certified specialists in the fields of medicine and biotechnology. Here's what I've learned from them:

1. If 70%-80% of the people in the world(note that ending the pandemic in one particular country doesn't make sense in the modern world) were vaccinated the pandemic would start to decline and would vanish soon.

2. Although you can be infected with covid even when fully vaccinated, the vaccination greatly reduces the risk of hospitalization and death.

Please take those two things into account, and maybe consider vaccination.

I myself got my first vaccine shot 2 weeks ago, and now waiting for the second one.

arwin100

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Quote from: Lucius on August 17, 2021, 04:29:16 AM

Quote from: qwertyup23 on August 16, 2021, 10:03:46 AM

The government can only do so much about their vaccination program. If they cannot convince the general public that vaccination works, even with tons of free vaccination programs, then that is outside the ambit of their scope. You cannot force someone to get vaccinated as it will tantamount to involuntary servitude. The only thing that the government can do is to provide concrete data and information that vaccines do work!

Here in the Philippines, after the government announced that the public cannot visit malls without any prior vaccination, tons of people marched into vaccination sites to get vaccinated. There has to be some sort of tradeoff where you would impose to convince the general public to get vaccinated.

Governments are sticking to the only solution that works for them, and that is vaccination. Yet if we look at data from say the US where it is stated that at least 70% of adults have received a single dose of vaccine and at the same time have over 100 000+ infected daily, then we need to wonder how effective these vaccines are at all, especially against new strains of the virus.

What is happening now in some countries of the world is a direct blow to human rights and fundamental freedoms, because if someone conditions people that they must be vaccinated if they want to go to a store or hospital, then where are we headed if not in the opposite direction of democracy.

The example of France and its insane measures has brought hundreds of thousands of people to the streets to protest - and that is the only way people can really say what they think about being forced into something. The misfortune of this world is that 90% of people behave like sheep and don’t think for themselves, which is why we all live much worse than we should.

They don't have any choice but to believe that vaccine because this is much suggested by health experts and its just there are conspiracy theories which is spread by bloggers together with people who's easily get panic about those created stories about the vaccine. We are far to see this pandemic ends if many people will believe in hoax that's why we always see the numbers are continuously rising because many are still afraid about accepting the possible solution.

I already received my second dose but nothing happen to me and I'm glad I'm protected so hopefully other will realize that this is much important than believing on certain individuals who just want to spread fear towards this incident.

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on August 16, 2021, 10:03:46 AM

The government can only do so much about their vaccination program. If they cannot convince the general public that vaccination works, even with tons of free vaccination programs, then that is outside the ambit of their scope. You cannot force someone to get vaccinated as it will tantamount to involuntary servitude. The only thing that the government can do is to provide concrete data and information that vaccines do work!

Here in the Philippines, after the government announced that the public cannot visit malls without any prior vaccination, tons of people marched into vaccination sites to get vaccinated. There has to be some sort of tradeoff where you would impose to convince the general public to get vaccinated.

Governments are sticking to the only solution that works for them, and that is vaccination. Yet if we look at data from say the US where it is stated that at least 70% of adults have received a single dose of vaccine and at the same time have over 100 000+ infected daily, then we need to wonder how effective these vaccines are at all, especially against new strains of the virus.

What is happening now in some countries of the world is a direct blow to human rights and fundamental freedoms, because if someone conditions people that they must be vaccinated if they want to go to a store or hospital, then where are we headed if not in the opposite direction of democracy.

The example of France and its insane measures has brought hundreds of thousands of people to the streets to protest - and that is the only way people can really say what they think about being forced into something. The misfortune of this world is that 90% of people behave like sheep and don’t think for themselves, which is why we all live much worse than we should.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on August 13, 2021, 06:58:27 PM

Zinc and vitamin D are emerging as great supplements for COVID-19.

That's true, though I've only known about zinc lozenges as having proven ability to lessen the duration and severity of common cold infections. That's been known for a long time; there's probably been more research done in the last 20 years that I haven't kept up with--and vitamin D has been touted as being some kind of miracle nutrient for years, but its relation to COVID-19 infections isn't clear to me. I'm sure scientists are studying it, but with the virus being relatively new I don't think there's been any definitive answers yet.

Quote from: fiulpro on August 16, 2021, 07:25:33 AM

At the end of the day, Zn and Vitamin D is working fine but we have to understand the fact that, Vitamin A, D, E,K, the fat soluble vitamins are very toxic therefore they should not be taken without the advice of a certified medical professional.

When we talk about Zn it can cause toxicity but in huge amounts and can also disrupt the intake and utilization of other minerals in the body like copper and Iron.

Not all fat-soluble vitamins have the same toxicity, and it would take extreme doses for any of them to produce symptoms. Vitamin K and A are probably the most toxic, but there's no reason for people to be taking either one of them as far as COVID is concerned. I also don't believe the story about high-dose vitamin C. Linus Pauling swore by it, but so far the studies haven't backed him up and there hasn't been any evidence published that would suggest that vitamin C in any dose can ward off COVID. If there are any legitimate, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies that have been published, I'd love to read them.

20kevin20

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Guess it's about much more than just vaccines and people still don't get it. The economy doesn't seem like it can be fixed anytime soon, we're uselessly and endlessly chasing tails but the final result will still be the same. Virus or not, there has to be another agenda behind and they're thoroughly following it. Vaccines have been known from the start to be only a potential stopper of the virus, but it proved useless in the face of all those other mutations. If after 1 year even with a vaccine I still have to fear going out in public, something's wrong.

Silberman

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Quite honestly I was expecting this scenario, those that were expecting that the vaccine was going to end the virus were simply too optimistic, the virus changes incredibly fast and just like any enemy it is going to adapt to whatever tactics that we use, and if we add that the pharmaceutical industry cannot really create the vaccine to vaccinate people fast enough and that there are many people out there that do not want to take the vaccine then this scenario was to be expected.

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on August 16, 2021, 10:03:46 AM

The government can only do so much about their vaccination program. If they cannot convince the general public that vaccination works, even with tons of free vaccination programs, then that is outside the ambit of their scope. You cannot force someone to get vaccinated as it will tantamount to involuntary servitude. The only thing that the government can do is to provide concrete data and information that vaccines do work!

Here in the Philippines, after the government announced that the public cannot visit malls without any prior vaccination, tons of people marched into vaccination sites to get vaccinated. There has to be some sort of tradeoff where you would impose to convince the general public to get vaccinated.

It is a very difficult question. I am not someone who supports authoritarianism from the government authorities. But here it is very difficult to take a particular side. If I don't support the move from the government, then I will be indirectly supporting the spread of the virus. But my fear is that if I support them this time, then they will use it an opportunity to steal personal liberties in the future. Can't trust the government, irrespective of whether you are living in a third world nation, or in a developed country.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 15, 2021, 10:20:24 PM

Quote from: Wakate on August 15, 2021, 05:36:29 PM

The Government needs to put more effort to contain the virus and if premiums care is not taken on the best methods to defeat this deadly virus, we might end up experiencing the second batch of black death(deadly virus emanated from rodents) that kill more than 5 million persons hundreds years ago. Vaccine makers need to put on more efforts to achieve a sustainable result that can resist the virus.

If the population is ignorant, then the government may not be able to do much. Take the case of Russia for example. They are witnessing close to 1,000 daily deaths from COVID 19 now. Russia is the country which manufactures the Sputnik V vaccine, and yet most of the population refuses to get vaccinated. As per the latest stats, only 22% of the population has received both doses of the vaccine, with another 5% receiving the first dose. And in recent days, the daily vaccination rate has gone down.

The government can only do so much about their vaccination program. If they cannot convince the general public that vaccination works, even with tons of free vaccination programs, then that is outside the ambit of their scope. You cannot force someone to get vaccinated as it will tantamount to involuntary servitude. The only thing that the government can do is to provide concrete data and information that vaccines do work!

Here in the Philippines, after the government announced that the public cannot visit malls without any prior vaccination, tons of people marched into vaccination sites to get vaccinated. There has to be some sort of tradeoff where you would impose to convince the general public to get vaccinated.

nightxglow

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It's probably because most of the world aren't ready to face a global pandemic that is easily transmitted like Covid-19 yet. Before, maybe the transmission of the virus can be stopped since mobility is still limited, however now, it's really easy to go everywhere, and most people are still ignorant, not wearing mask or social distancing, making it easier for people to get infected. People complaining wanting their old lives back, but the step that can be taken now sure only is vaccination, at least it will prevent some cases although not all, and won't make them severe. But the vaccination rate is still low, and not that effective, so actually it's great for vaccine makers to think how to improve it and make the better version of the vaccine, we need to cooperate to of course, willing to get vaccinated and follow all of the health protocol.

Lucius

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Quote from: fiulpro on August 16, 2021, 07:25:33 AM

The way China was able to get rid of COVID -19 without a vaccination was because they did give their patients, excessive vitamin 'C'. Then they were able to provide everyone else too with the vaccinations they had left, they practically donated a lot too.

I’m not quite sure that vitamin C is what helped the Chinese deal successfully with the virus, but their ability to test entire cities of millions in a very short time, and separate the infected from the general population. This is especially important for the reason that there is a certain percentage of people who are asymptomatic carriers of the virus (no symptoms), and when you test all people, you find them too. In addition, their vaccine has been proven to be one of the least protective against possible infection (only 50%).

If no 100% effective way to protect against the virus is found, then we stick to the methods they are now implementing - vaccination as many times as necessary, with vaccines that unfortunately have not been nearly clinically tested. If it takes at least 3-5 years to develop a safe and successful vaccine, all of this produced in less than 1 year I personally consider an experimental vaccine that I just hope will not result in any side effects in the future.

YOSHIE

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the first and second doses of the vaccine did not work well to deal with the Covid-19 problem, it actually made things worse for those who had received the vaccination, this is a fact, not just talk.

Vaccine remaking, in my opinion, will actually increase the number of new rich people in the vaccine business. I think humans are more immune to their own immune system from the vaccine that has been injected, If you maintain a healthy diet by eating nutritious foods, exercising regularly, getting enough rest, dealing with stress, it's better than an injection that has been vaccinated.

The body will be attacked by viruses, if you do not maintain good hygiene in your environment and food, It's useless for people to inject vaccines again/2,3,4 if dirty habits are not eliminated and vaccines are not enough to protect the human body, avoid eating foods such as: Pigs, Bats, Dogs, and the like, maybe you don't need a vaccine, you will be protected from the corona virus aka covid-19.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on August 13, 2021, 06:58:27 PM

Zinc and vitamin D are emerging as great supplements for COVID-19.

Quote

The Role of Zinc in Antiviral Immunity

This review summarizes current basic science and clinical evidence examining zinc as a direct antiviral, as well as a stimulant of antiviral immunity. An abundance of evidence has accumulated over the past 50 y to demonstrate the antiviral activity of zinc against a variety of viruses, and via numerous mechanisms. The therapeutic use of zinc for viral infections such as herpes simplex virus and the common cold has stemmed from these findings; however, there remains much to be learned regarding the antiviral mechanisms and clinical benefit of zinc supplementation as a preventative and therapeutic treatment for viral infections.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31305906/

....

Zinc itself appears to have anti viral characteristics. In addition to being a vital component to having a fully functional immune system. Studies claim many in the world have zinc deficiencies, leading to decreased immune system function.

There doesn't appear to be good information available on vaccines. Perhaps they will label our current era something other than an "information age" seeing as how starved we are for relevant information.

Minorities in the united states appear to be the least vaccinated demographic. A fact which the media strangely appears to ignore. I do not support vaccines and will never get them. There are many discrepansies and inconsistencies revolving around COVID-19 and vaccines which are not being acknowledged.

The way China was able to get rid of COVID -19 without a vaccination was because they did give their patients, excessive vitamin 'C'. Then they were able to provide everyone else too with the vaccinations they had left, they practically donated a lot too.

At the end of the day, Zn and Vitamin D is working fine but we have to understand the fact that, Vitamin A, D, E,K, the fat soluble vitamins are very toxic therefore they should not be taken without the advice of a certified medical professional.

When we talk about Zn it can cause toxicity but in huge amounts and can also disrupt the intake and utilization of other minerals in the body like copper and Iron.

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Quote from: sapnu on August 15, 2021, 08:37:40 AM

Even after a long run of vaccinating people, the surge in Covid 19 has never gotten better. This just proves how ineffective and how incomplete the vaccines that has been made. Different vitamins and antibodies that is contained in the vaccines are just not enough specially that new variants are emerging as time passes by. The virus is getting stronger and evolving yet the vaccines are staying still on how it is. Actually, we might be doomed already once the virus gets strong enough that we won't be able to contain it and all of the studies and expenses given for the vaccines will all be worthless.

I strongly agree.

The increase rate of covid-19 cases didn't decline with all the health protocols imposed and despite that there are many people that are already vaccinated. The recorded cases were still going up each day and the death recorded in most countries is continuously spiking each day. It's very alarming that despite all these, covid-19 still spreads so fast and infects many people all over the globe.

The virus is mutating and we are really running out of time to combat it. Recently, the Lambda variant is discovered. The level and variant of the covid-19 virus is rapidly increasing. The severity of its effect to one's health and how contagious it is is also changing quickly. The vaccines made were supposedly to combat the original variant of covid-19, but right now there are so many variants that have been arising. I don't know if the vaccines are even effective against it like what they claim it to be because the numbers don't lie, right?

I just hope that we'll overcome this pandemic as soon as possible. Hopefully, the scientists will also come up with new ways that are really effective and good for the long run.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on August 13, 2021, 06:58:27 PM

Zinc itself appears to have anti viral characteristics. In addition to being a vital component to having a fully functional immune system. Studies claim many in the world have zinc deficiencies, leading to decreased immune system function.

I take both zinc and vitamin D. And since I started taking vitamin D I have not had a single cold or flu. This is common for people with high vitamin D levels. But it's no good taking 2K IU and saying that's a high dose.

The problem is that these solutions do not make a profit for the pharmaceutical industry. They are sold in herbalists and are cheap. You can get free vitamin D from the sun for part of the year depending on where you live. If you live near the equator, all year round. Depending on your diet, you may not even need to take zinc supplements.

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Quote from: Wakate on August 15, 2021, 05:36:29 PM

The Government needs to put more effort to contain the virus and if premiums care is not taken on the best methods to defeat this deadly virus, we might end up experiencing the second batch of black death(deadly virus emanated from rodents) that kill more than 5 million persons hundreds years ago. Vaccine makers need to put on more efforts to achieve a sustainable result that can resist the virus.

If the population is ignorant, then the government may not be able to do much. Take the case of Russia for example. They are witnessing close to 1,000 daily deaths from COVID 19 now. Russia is the country which manufactures the Sputnik V vaccine, and yet most of the population refuses to get vaccinated. As per the latest stats, only 22% of the population has received both doses of the vaccine, with another 5% receiving the first dose. And in recent days, the daily vaccination rate has gone down.

Wakate

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The Government needs to put more effort to contain the virus and if premiums care is not taken on the best methods to defeat this deadly virus, we might end up experiencing the second batch of black death(deadly virus emanated from rodents) that kill more than 5 million persons hundreds years ago. Vaccine makers need to put on more efforts to achieve a sustainable result that can resist the virus.

sapnu

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Even after a long run of vaccinating people, the surge in Covid 19 has never gotten better. This just proves how ineffective and how incomplete the vaccines that has been made. Different vitamins and antibodies that is contained in the vaccines are just not enough specially that new variants are emerging as time passes by. The virus is getting stronger and evolving yet the vaccines are staying still on how it is. Actually, we might be doomed already once the virus gets strong enough that we won't be able to contain it and all of the studies and expenses given for the vaccines will all be worthless.

Topic: The recent surge in Covid-19 is making vaccine makers to have a rethink - page 4. (Read 644 times)