Topic: the RISK of FPGA mining - page 3. (Read 16759 times)

FPGA is a joke , not real benefit!

Granted there is risk in FPGA
But this takes some power back from asic manufacturers who are most likely running equipment like this or better.
once these can be scaled down nicely, they will replace gpu's entirely. and this was always going to happen. Gpu miners have already cut back on spending and will likely be deciding whether to get more invested into it, or less. The days of getting into mining at home with your 1 or 2 gpu's is not over, smaller cap coins with their own algos will get away from FPGA until they get big, just like ASICS.

Ultimately we will just have a middle ground between gpu's(hobbyist) and ASICS(large scale). and this first batch of miners will make a very small dent overall compared to asics for the next 6-12 months, So there is still time for gpu miners to all get their ROI.
But I would rather side with FPGA to slow down companies who use asics in house before releasing to market for massive gains

Thank you I appreciate you taking the time to explain things I'm against asic because they are centralized with bitmain running the show with them having kill switches and backed by the Chinese government things can only go one way theirs, my biggest issue with fpgas is the pricing and hopefully things will work out there needs to be hardware specifically for mining that can mine different algos but are available for anyone

an ASIC can only do one thing, what it was designed to do. A FPGA is like a GPU, it can do whatever you program it to do. It's even possible to program it in the same language used to program the GPU (OpenCL).

There will be competition in the space, we're providing a platform that will force developers to compete on performance and fee to stay relevant.

Yes, cost is still high. This is my focus right now. Dropping the cost of these devices. Our current offerings are just the first step in this process; considering that we've achieved 1/2 the retail price that others are selling them for, I think we did very well. But again, this is just the start.

edit: removed the bit about claymore because it was rumor and probably not true to start with. But, even if it's not, the general idea stands.

I'm just asking how are fpga any different than asic they are expensive which excludes people from poorer countries getting them plus how is it going to save on power at first maybe but as the hashrate goes up so does difficulty so you need to add more miners also how are you going to get a company selling a 3000-4000 dollar piece of hardware to 700-800 and that's a high priced gpu.
Listen I'm not trying to bust balls here I'm all for power reduction it's the cost and we all know there's going to be greedy devs hiding in 10 or 15% Dev fees it was going on with zec, you look at things different because you have access to fpgas at a cost lower than most and know what your doing with them

Do you have anything to substantiate that claim?

I can show you a chat room with 30 fpga devs in it right now feverishly working away to provide bitstreams for the community. What can you show me?

https://discord.gg/M6CyRh

I WILL get these FPGA to GPU pricing; or Xilinx (and Intel) is going to need to get a restraining order against me. I don't know how to give up, ask paypal.

Did you even read what I said, I don`t believe in open source for FPGA expecialy with xx big farms that will pay any developer out there, and we know there are just few ppl that will work on fpga, my personal opinion that just crumbs will be let out, profitable bitsream will be bought and only released when some over the developer head say he can.......

I also would like to be wrong and I hope... time will tell

Why is it, I have to substantiate my claims but no one else does?


it's ridiculous...

WHERES THE CODE?!!?
here...
WHERES THE PROOF?!?!
here...
WHERES THE MORE PROOF?!?!?
here...
WHERES THE EXTRA PROOF!?!!?
here..
I STILL DONT BELIEVE IT, GIVE ME MORE PROOF?!!?
here..
THIS IS ILLOGICAL, EXPLAIN IT TO ME?!?!
here...

then.....

"Uh ya, I don't have any proof this is a scam but I'm going to say it's a scam anyway because I'm a troll and I want to bring my FUD parade to town"..

There are too many independent individuals working on this and with intimate knowledge of it for it to be a scam. And, as we've publicly stated MANY MANY times. There will only be 5000 of these things to hit the markets. We'd like as many as possible to be in the hands of independent miners. But if the independent / small miners don't want them -- there's no doubt that the farms will.

I'm not going to make any claims as to profitability. I'm not a master of the mystic arts or even a financial advisor. What I will say is, we've provided very conservative numbers and we expect everyone to be very happy. However, we cannot control other players in the market, at least, not as much as we'd like to be able to.

Hopefully I won't get trolled for quoting Donald Rumsfeld... But..... "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."

This is all pure FUD and nice talk....... we know as soon as HW stock is sold best profit algos will be done just for big farms....... ppl will start to curse and be mad...

I hope I am wrong but that is how its done

the released bitstream will get you ROI of +2 years or so , while the big one milk the coins and play stupid, and GPU miners cry someone is harvest their shit and no one has FPGA for it

PS: I still hope I be wrong, but I would not bet on that

My goal in this venture is to reduce the RETAIL cost of FPGA to under $1000, to utilize 50% of the power of a gpu, and provide 10x the performance of a gpu ... ON ANY ALGORITHM..... That's pointed directly at you ethash+progpow.

The current pricing we've achieved is a big step in the right direction. But there's still a lot of work to be done.

I want GPUs OUT of this market. They DO NOT belong here.

Maths is hard...

Let's say a network has 1000 gpu miners each with 1Mh/s. Each GPU is like 300 watts. A total of 1000Mh/s and 300kW.
Now let's say we have a network of fpga using the same algo. 100 FPGA with 10Mh/s. Each FPGA is around 150 watts. A total of 1000Mh/s and 15kW.

So, by switching this network over to FPGA and replacing the hashrate hash for hash we have decreased the total electrical power consumption by 285kW (95% reduction in power consumption).

..

But, what we really want is ASIC resistance, right?

Ok...


Let's say we have a network of 1000 gpu miners each with 1Mh/s. Each GPU is like 300 watts. A total of 1000Mh/s and 300kW.

Someone goes and spends 2 months and $300,000 developing a 90nm asic that gets a 4x performance improvement over GPU plus significant cost reduction at scale. Now we have a device that will have 4Mh/s and consume let's say 100 watts... This is bad right? We have a secret miner on the network who paid very little cost to rapidly have an ASIC developed and they could quickly launch a 51% attack with as little as 250 devices!

Let's make the assumption that I've achieved significant cost reduction and FPGA can be bought for the price of a gpu and are available in the same quantities......

We've now replaced our 1000 gpu miners board for board with FPGA. So, we have 1000 fpga each with 10Mh/s. Each FPGA is around 150 watts. A total of 150kW (still significant power reduction over gpus...) and 10,000Mh/s.

Someone goes and spends 2 months and $300,000 developing a 90nm asic that gets a 4x performance improvement over a GPU plus significant cost reduction at scale. Now we have a device that will have 4Mh/s and consume let's say 100 watts... This is bad right? NOPE! This device would not be as profitable as the FPGA and is zero threat to the coin. The device would more than likely operate AT A LOSS depending on the cost of electricity for those running it. The total number of devices required to launch a 51% attack (and costs associated with it) would be increased by 10x.

By replacing these GPU board for board we've made high level cheap asics unprofitable, we've reduced the power consumption for the entire network by 50%, and significantly increased the security of the network.


...


So tell me, which is the better general purpose solution? GPU or FPGA?

Search for "aws-keccak.zip" on discord

https://discord.gg/M6CyRh

There's like 30+ developers on discord who are going to be releasing software and bitstream support. I can't believe it's still possible for anyone to question the legitimacy of the hardware or that it exists.

I have searched and I cannot find the download links, any help in locating them would be appreciated.

just a small time hobby miner here, 7 card rig. bought a single vcu1525 for 3.6k USD, i could easily of bought more but want to see how it pans out. dunno what percentage hash we hobby miners represent, any guesses?

as for "gaming only" rigs with one or two cards that mine part time whats that percentage of hash? i would think its pretty low. so i doubt they are eating into our profits.

fpga should help lessen the advantage 90, 45 nm asics that private organizations have in the wild now and are mining privately with. make the cost of asics much more expensive (like needing 14 nm instead of 130 nm to compete with current fpgas, or whatever the numbers are, (sorry not knowledgeable in node sizes of fpga vs old tech asics vs cutting edge asics, so consider these numbers guesses)

No I do understand.  I remain skeptical this is the correct prediction of future events.

I suppose time will tell won't it?  FWIW - I hope you're right.

Ya you think Bitmain isn't going to get involved they have some of the smartest people working for them and now that the fpga manufacturers realize how much more money they can make your 3500 card will cost 6000

Early on I expect FPGA to possibly end up being very profitable.  Some will sell their GPUs and re-equip with one or two FPGA at the same cost basis.  Some may quit entirely.  It'll be fine for a while.

The thing is people are greedy.  They are going to do the math and figure out how 10 more of them will vastly increase profits.  Which it will in the short term.  They will then take out a loan or whatever it takes thinking they have a gold mine on their hands.  And they will - for a while.

Once enough people do that, and once enough of the big players re-equip, then hello 10x difficulty increase.  It won't happen overnight.  Long term though - doesn't look real favorable to me.

Ya I don't think anyone relizes the can of worms this is going to open normal home miners can't afford 3500-5000 on one card as more are released the difficulty goes up so your still going to end up using the same amount of power as before because you need to run more to keep up and mining less because of difficulty, but than again the price tag is going to push people out of mining so everything will eventually end up centralized

Watch out, we got a professional miner here 

What you don't understand and your missing.

The cost of fpga is  expensive so people will hit a certain risk point and stop buying more. Buying 10 FPGA will cost $35k and consume 1000 watts,  whereas a gpu would consume much higher wattage 10x more for same hashrate

Also switching over to FPGA most importantly will filter out those millenials or 14 year old  gamers that gets "free" electric ,that are just wasting us real miners time and eating into our bottom line profits.  Some of us real miners treat this as a real business and we don't need gamers involved looking for to roi for a free gpu to game with.