the RISK of FPGA mining - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Amph

legendary

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Quote from: Kompik on June 09, 2018, 03:49:33 AM

Quote from: Amph on June 09, 2018, 03:23:13 AM

it's not like you can do anything here, there is no way to stop fpga from mining, changing algo don't work like against asic, so we are doomed to adapt, the good thing is that the new nvidia gpu are strong enough to make a competition against fpga

Why is it a problem to buy a FPGA as a GPU Miner?

i can think about centralization, because fpga is more expensive and casual miner can not afford it easily, but perssonally i don't have anything against it, after all it's like a gpu...

Riptide_NVN

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Quote from: senseless on June 09, 2018, 09:38:46 AM

If you replace a network hash for hash you end up with the same hashrate and 1/10 the ENTIRE NETWORK POWER CONSUMPTION.

Disregarding the normal fluctuation in value of coins being mined. I don't see how this conclusion is arrived at.

Nobody interested in these devices is planning on continuing along at the same hash rate they are now with a GPU rig or farm. They will want and need more to keep up. Nobody is going to buy one and go "OK, I got the same hash as my 15 1080ti at 10% of the electricity so now I'm good this is it." Once they re-equip en masse then network hash skyrockets. Just like it does with an ASIC machine. They hit the network and difficulty goes through the roof. People then are under pressure to buy more to keep up. And so on.

Perhaps this is a better way to illustrate:
I have one gpu. I hash 1000 h/s @ 1000w.
I buy one FPGA. I hash 10000 h/s @ 100w.
Am I going to buy just one FPGA then? No. I'm going to buy 10 of the things so I can run 100x the hash at the same power. Just like everyone else will. While we are all hashing more for the same power. We are all hashing more. And difficulty goes sky high to compensate for this.

Would like to know what I'm not understanding here.

senseless

hero member

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Quote from: realaccountakira on June 09, 2018, 08:41:56 AM

Saying something is one thing but backing it up with real facts is another. If you are absolutely 100% certain then some facts would probably be a helpful and constructive discussion to have.

The thing is, nobody can really even prove that you have an FPGA working. My thinking is just that if you mined FPGA in a "big way" then why would you go about sharing that and decreasing your profit? The only logical reason is that you aren't really earning much from it and selling hardware would be more profitable. It's good that you've sold out your stock and everything but i really do hope you follow through and deliver on your promised products.

Any proof I'd provide would just be my own personal experience. Which you'd discount in the same way you just did.

You realize, I HAVE POSTED PICTURES OF FPGA WORKING IN MY OFFICE. Correct?

You realize, I HAVE POSTED THE BTC ADDRESSES SHOWING $100s of K MINED. Correct?

You realize, I HAVE POSTED FUNCTIONAL SOURCE CODE SO ANYONE CAN MINE ON AMAZON F1 FPGA. Correct?

You realize, I HAVE POSTED FUNCTIONAL SOURCE CODE SO ANYONE CAN COMPILE ON THEIR VCU1525. Correct?

Going to guess a big NO on the questions above.

senseless

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Quote from: Riptide_NVN on June 09, 2018, 07:31:37 AM

Once everyone sells their GPUs and moves to FPGA your electricity savings are wiped out as is any advantage in hashing power you had. Difficulty skyrockets once everyone re-equips. It'll be good early on in the transition phase assuming this actually happens on a large scale. Past that not so much. Balance returns and you've come full circle.

That's not true.

If you replace a network hash for hash you end up with the same hashrate and 1/10 the ENTIRE NETWORK POWER CONSUMPTION.

If you replace a network board for board you end up with the same power consumption and 10x the hashrate which provides increased ASIC resistance. This makes any ASIC above 45-32nm not profitable and not worth the effort in making. No more private / secret high level 90, 110, 130, etc nm asics!

realaccountakira

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Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2018, 11:10:35 PM

Quote from: realaccountakira on June 08, 2018, 10:53:18 PM

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2018, 10:39:18 AM

Quote from: fanatic26 on June 08, 2018, 10:33:27 AM

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

With limited number of devices in the market devs are incentivized to release their code. By having multiple devs in the same space it creates competition. Go look at some of claymore's ethereum addresses and tell me that it's not worth it for those who are able

What Claymore earns is probably ant food compared to what huge companies would pay to keep the best source code private. Why? Because it could be more costly for them not do so. If they have centralization of software they could be earning twice than what everyone else is. Thats a lot more than some 1 or 2% dev fee.

This is probably happening now and we just don't know it. #Claymore has a private version that mines 2x the speed.

As someone who secretly mined on FPGA for over a year and in a big way. I can say with absolute 100% certainty you're wrong.

Saying something is one thing but backing it up with real facts is another. If you are absolutely 100% certain then some facts would probably be a helpful and constructive discussion to have.

The thing is, nobody can really even prove that you have an FPGA working. My thinking is just that if you mined FPGA in a "big way" then why would you go about sharing that and decreasing your profit? The only logical reason is that you aren't really earning much from it and selling hardware would be more profitable. It's good that you've sold out your stock and everything but i really do hope you follow through and deliver on your promised products.

Riptide_NVN

member

Activity: 294

Merit: 16

Once everyone sells their GPUs and moves to FPGA your electricity savings are wiped out as is any advantage in hashing power you had. Difficulty skyrockets once everyone re-equips. It'll be good early on in the transition phase assuming this actually happens on a large scale. Past that not so much. Balance returns and you've come full circle.

Kompik

sr. member

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Quote from: Amph on June 09, 2018, 03:23:13 AM

it's not like you can do anything here, there is no way to stop fpga from mining, changing algo don't work like against asic, so we are doomed to adapt, the good thing is that the new nvidia gpu are strong enough to make a competition against fpga

Why is it a problem to buy a FPGA as a GPU Miner?

Amph

legendary

Activity: 3248

Merit: 1070

it's not like you can do anything here, there is no way to stop fpga from mining, changing algo don't work like against asic, so we are doomed to adapt, the good thing is that the new nvidia gpu are strong enough to make a competition against fpga

frostedace

newbie

Activity: 39

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Quote from: LTCMAXMYR on June 07, 2018, 08:31:24 PM

ROI and electricity fee are not important, because GPU and CPU can bring dozens of times more revenue every year.

Keep your eyes open and don't fall into the trap.

This guy sounds like he would run a profitable venture lol.

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

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Quote from: realaccountakira on June 08, 2018, 10:53:18 PM

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2018, 10:39:18 AM

Quote from: fanatic26 on June 08, 2018, 10:33:27 AM

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

With limited number of devices in the market devs are incentivized to release their code. By having multiple devs in the same space it creates competition. Go look at some of claymore's ethereum addresses and tell me that it's not worth it for those who are able

What Claymore earns is probably ant food compared to what huge companies would pay to keep the best source code private. Why? Because it could be more costly for them not do so. If they have centralization of software they could be earning twice than what everyone else is. Thats a lot more than some 1 or 2% dev fee.

This is probably happening now and we just don't know it. #Claymore has a private version that mines 2x the speed.

As someone who secretly mined on FPGA for over a year and in a big way. I can say with absolute 100% certainty you're wrong.

realaccountakira

member

Activity: 182

Merit: 11

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2018, 10:39:18 AM

Quote from: fanatic26 on June 08, 2018, 10:33:27 AM

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

With limited number of devices in the market devs are incentivized to release their code. By having multiple devs in the same space it creates competition. Go look at some of claymore's ethereum addresses and tell me that it's not worth it for those who are able

What Claymore earns is probably ant food compared to what huge companies would pay to keep the best source code private. Why? Because it could be more costly for them not do so. If they have centralization of software they could be earning twice than what everyone else is. Thats a lot more than some 1 or 2% dev fee.

This is probably happening now and we just don't know it. #Claymore has a private version that mines 2x the speed.

ragecage

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2018, 07:08:49 AM

Let's give the video cards back to the gamers and use devices that are more suited for what we need in the crypto community.

naah, rejected. gpu has many advantages over fpga.
let exist coins for cpu, gpu, fpga and asics. and noone do not cross the line of others.

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: fanatic26 on June 08, 2018, 10:33:27 AM

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

With limited number of devices in the market devs are incentivized to release their code. By having multiple devs in the same space it creates competition. Go look at some of claymore's ethereum addresses and tell me that it's not worth it for those who are able

Quote from: melpheos on June 08, 2018, 09:52:19 AM

Quote from: Littledragons on June 08, 2018, 09:47:06 AM

This is like saying its a really bad idea to use GPU miners because there are only a few mining programs that exist for it.
Think about it - if we are really concerned Claymore and a few of the devs who push CCminer could easily just lock it down and make it so we have to pay to play. This would actually be worthwhile IMO (and is what Claymore already does by using the dev-fee).

The fact is that tons of corporate entities actually use GPUs when they should be using FGPAs. This is simply a fact. It will quickly become a world in which we will all joke about the days in which we were mining with GPUs. Its just a fact of life. Tech goes forward and so do industries within the Tech sector.

Just the same we were able to mine bitcoin with CPU, then GPU, then ASIC.... Aaaaaaaaand it's gone
The only defense against ASIC and evil bitmain/Halong is dev trying hard to develop ProgPOW

I'm looking forward to ProgPOW+FPGA

They make a better combination than you'd think.

fanatic26

hero member

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Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

GPUHoarder

member

Activity: 154

Merit: 37

Quote from: LTCMAXMYR on June 08, 2018, 09:50:39 AM

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2018, 09:41:56 AM

Quote from: LTCMAXMYR on June 08, 2018, 09:36:21 AM

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue is too low compared to GPU using my method.

You realize you can compile opencl code for fpga on sdaccel right?

opencl for FPGA is just a dessert and may not be really useful. For example, it hasn't seen the true effect of lyra2z for many days, but it can be compiled in a few minutes on the GPU.

On average it takes me about 1 day to make a hashcore for a new algorithm on the FPGA.

ALL the rest of the time is the "shell", and I'm not referring to senseless' shell but the code and drivers on the PC side, the FPGA/Logic interface and deserialization of command and control data, high bandwidth state passing or low bandwidth block+nonce passing, dynamic clock management, power and thermals, etc.

New algorithm - ~1 day to be up and running, heavily optimized over a few weeks just like GPU or CPU.

And this is me working solo. We will have a team of FPGA developers working on this. This is not the first move - making the VCU1525 available, this is part of an entire effort.

melpheos

jr. member

Activity: 557

Merit: 5

Quote from: Littledragons on June 08, 2018, 09:47:06 AM

This is like saying its a really bad idea to use GPU miners because there are only a few mining programs that exist for it.
Think about it - if we are really concerned Claymore and a few of the devs who push CCminer could easily just lock it down and make it so we have to pay to play. This would actually be worthwhile IMO (and is what Claymore already does by using the dev-fee).

The fact is that tons of corporate entities actually use GPUs when they should be using FGPAs. This is simply a fact. It will quickly become a world in which we will all joke about the days in which we were mining with GPUs. Its just a fact of life. Tech goes forward and so do industries within the Tech sector.

Just the same we were able to mine bitcoin with CPU, then GPU, then ASIC.... Aaaaaaaaand it's gone
The only defense against ASIC and evil bitmain/Halong is dev trying hard to develop ProgPOW

LTCMAXMYR

hero member

Activity: 609

Merit: 500

DMD,XZC

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2018, 09:41:56 AM

Quote from: LTCMAXMYR on June 08, 2018, 09:36:21 AM

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue is too low compared to GPU using my method.

You realize you can compile opencl code for fpga on sdaccel right?

opencl for FPGA is just a dessert and may not be really useful. For example, it hasn't seen the true effect of lyra2z for many days, but it can be compiled in a few minutes on the GPU.

Littledragons

full member

Activity: 294

Merit: 102

This is like saying its a really bad idea to use GPU miners because there are only a few mining programs that exist for it.
Think about it - if we are really concerned Claymore and a few of the devs who push CCminer could easily just lock it down and make it so we have to pay to play. This would actually be worthwhile IMO (and is what Claymore already does by using the dev-fee).

The fact is that tons of corporate entities actually use GPUs when they should be using FGPAs. This is simply a fact. It will quickly become a world in which we will all joke about the days in which we were mining with GPUs. Its just a fact of life. Tech goes forward and so do industries within the Tech sector.

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: LTCMAXMYR on June 08, 2018, 09:36:21 AM

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue is too low compared to GPU using my method.

You realize you can compile opencl code for fpga on sdaccel right?

LTCMAXMYR

hero member

Activity: 609

Merit: 500

DMD,XZC

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue is too low compared to GPU using my method.

Topic: the RISK of FPGA mining - page 4. (Read 16759 times)