Topic: The Rock Trading Scam www.therocktrading.com Exchange Review fraud opinion - page 27. (Read 36160 times)

We all know that the Rock CFO has no problem whatsoever about lying blatantly, even on an open forum, and that he doesn't respect his word (not even his word on his own TOS/FAQ), even on promises and declarations posted on this forum.

But if we needed any other confirmation, just check the Rock CFO at his best:

After 8 months of public fight, after his confession that he is pretty shore that the money is mine and that he was notified of the ODR arbitrage complaint with the same names they have on file, after I posted that I still own the banking account used to make small withdrawals on 2013, that I still own the bitcoin wallet/addresses used to deposit bitcoin on the Rock on 2017(he could just send the bitcoins to one of the addresses used), he still has the nerve to post that they are doing this to
He, the one who breached almost all rules of his own TOS and italian law and that confessed clearly this breaches, claims he is doing this to protect my funds and to comply with the Law!

This isn't just lying, it's calling everyone who is reading him (and is going to read him for years) a moron.

They blocked covertly my money 16 months ago, lied about the reason, invoked the pretext of verification against the letter of their current TOS/FAQ, posted all lies possible to justified what they are doing, including inventing an applicable european directive, then confessed that they were lying and that they are breaching their TOS/FAQ by anticipating the V european directive that they know isn't applicable in Italy, defamed me by saying that I hacked my account and that the owner is dead, confessed they are ready to keep my money forever, posted that they are not going to respect the arbitrator decision, menaced the security of my money by posting almost all personal details they had, but they think they are going to walk out of this without legal punishment or that the Rock Trading is going to survive this!

What the Rock CFO is doing and what he confessed on this forum make him absolutely unfit to hold other people's money.

If he thinks the italian authorities will let him keep managing the Rock Trading, he will discover how wrong he is the hard way, beyond bars.


Thank you a lot for your new signature. It will be an important help.

Karma will definitely come back and haunt the scammers.

They have lost all credibility.

The manner in which they have dealt with this situation with displays of sarcasm, threats, playing-ignorant and sporadic condescending conduct basically has set the countdown for the eventuality that leads to this exchange shutting down.

Still repeating always the same things .

Why you don't want to comply like with any other exchange?

Where is the Arbitrator?

I) They blocked my withdrawals on December 2017:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47413970
Guilty.

II) They repeatedly refused to explain why:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45512110
Guilty

III) Then, the Rock CFO posted that they blocked the account because it was "dormant":  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg49925132#msg49925132 (italian)
which was a blatant lie, since they blocked my money days after I sold all my bitcoins on 5 December 2017. So, his lie only confirms that they blocked my account without ANY reason.
Guilty

IV) They didn't inform me about the block and let me keep trading and even entrapping more money with a new deposit after the block.
This is fraud and a clear breach of their own TOS that demands them in case of a block to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User”(point 8.4: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).
Guilty

V) When I complained, they blackmailed me to send my documents or they would keep blocking my money against their previous assurances and FAQ that said "verification isn't mandatory" (they changed it on may 2019, confessing that they were breaching it): https://archive.fo/BNSfb
Guilty.

VI) Since I argued this, they accepted I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time". When I said I would take this public, they started demanding a copy of my documents again.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47423847
I have a copy of the CTO email of 21 August 2018 about this.
Guilty

VII) They confessed that they are ready to keep my money blocked "forever": https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47458158
Guilty

VIII) They still raise suspicions about my ownership ignoring all the evidence I have that no honest person can deny, including ownership of the banking account used to make withdrawals and bitcoins addresses used to make deposits on the Rock.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47458158
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50630599
Guilty.

IX) They kept lying about European Law, invoking european directives that they know aren't applicable (I told them so several times) because they only bind States members to adopt internal legislation:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47461136
Guilty.

X) They kept lying about the meaning of their TOS, quoting several inapplicable rules and none in particular, just to confuse.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46183000
Guilty.

X) They posted a misleading paid "legal opinion" in order to confuse customers and the community that is illegal taking in account italian Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, article 3, n.º 5, i), under the name of "subjected entities", restricts ANY application of its provisions to a crypto exchange only to operations of conversion (not trading or exchange) of crypto to fiat that only happens when the customer makes a fiat withdrawal (something I don't want):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47868314
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47897379
Guilty.

XI) They defamed me, by raising suspicions about me, suggesting I hacked my Rock account, that I'm some sort of criminal and that the real owner of the account is dead (and so probably that I'm a killer) against all the evidence I have that the money is mine.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46990096
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50381769

XII) They confessed that they won't respect the arbitrator decision if they lose the case:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50017001

XIII) They confessed that they aren't acting under their TOS or under Italian Law, but are claiming to be "anticipating" the V AML European Directive that they know isn't applicable to Italy until converted into Italian Law without even changing their TOS/FAQ: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50528161 (translation and comment).
So, again, the Rock CFO confirmed he doesn't care for breaking his TOS/FAQ or Italian Law.

XIV) The Rock CFO keeps lying about the arbitrage case, suggesting that it is a bluff, but he confessed that he was notified of the ODR case and he knows that the ODR sends automatically the complaints to the agreed Arbitrator as stated on their FAQ:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50630599

XV) They breached their duty to respect the privacy of their customers and account security. They published here on bitcointalk almost all the personal details they had, including first name, nationality, gender, banking relations on a EU country and a full text of an 2013 email which was irrelevant to their defense:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49989828 (italian)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50343815

XVI) They haven't deny ANY of my factual allegations, I'm not the one lying here. They actually confirmed my main ones: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.44951057

But he expects me to send them my documents? Yes, of course, they are an exchange like any other! They breached almost all the rules they had to follow and their FAQ says that "verification isn't mandatory"!

What are they waiting for? Go to the police now! Maybe the police will let them leave the police station!

He thinks I post lies like him. He is going to see the bluff.



I haven't forgot that you were one of the first to give them negative feedback. Welcome back.

We tried... we simply requested to provide documents like any other exchange.  We asked multiple times to file a claim with the authorities.  It didn't happen because they ask for a positive identification.

Nobody has a doubt that all this is quite strange?   Would you refuse to provide information which, today, are standard in the industry?  35k+ is quite an important amount and, for a principle, would you renounce it?

Selective scammer? Is any other exchange requesting the same information like we do be a selective scammer in a similar case?

We will get to the point in a way or in another. This is for sure.

It does seem very strange that after they realised they selective scammed a person that came to this forum to expose them, they decided to play the long game and drag this issue out without even trying to bring it to a swift conclusion. In that process they have simply ruined their reputation.

I had never heard of Rock Trading before the OP started the thread. If it really is as old as it claims then it is not exactly doing well when 24 trades allegedly are in the hundreds of thousands of euro range. They are not exactly Binance are they...

I do care but, if I have to chose to protect customers funds and avoid Compliance fines I have no doubt what to chose.....

Still waiting for the Arbitrator to contact us and, by now, I'm starting to believe it was another bluff by the OP trying to intimidate us.  No problem, as stated, we will file a Police report at the end of April.

We will keep you post it on the outcome.

Thank you

i have been away for few months, remember that i participated in this scam thread and was shocked that ita still going on.

Seems like the Rock Trading CEO/owner doesnt care about their ruined reputation

The Rock scammer eliale completely shattered his own reputation and is demolishing his business Rock trading and playing with his freedom for 35500 euros... I guess he thinks none of these things are more valuable than 35500 euros. Keep grabbing that money scammer until a swat team breaks your house door.

No contact from the Arbitrator yet.

Very strange

@coinfan do you have any update on you side?

The Rock CFO thinks that his lies become true by spamming the thread with them.



After a detailed check, I confirmed that I can indeed sign a message with a bitcoin address used to make a deposit on the Rock Trading done in 1 June 2017.

Another peace of irrefutable evidence that the money is mine, to add to the many other (check OP).

Of course, taking in account the Rock CFO record, this won't change a thing.


Thanks for your support. Give the Rock CFO negative feedback, if you want to help.He won't retaliate. He already has too many adversaries, he can't have the luxury of making a new enemy.

https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

8. AML REQUIREMENTS

1. When registering on the Website, the User is required to provide any necessary information and/or documents that TRT deems, in its sole discretion, to be suitable to maintain compliance with any law, regulation and internal policy (see the Anti-Money Laundering Policy adopted by TRT).

2. During the account verification process, the User must provide all documents that will be required. In particular, by registering an account on the Website, the user agrees to provide TRT, or another party delegated to carry out the anti-money laundering obligations imposed by law on behalf of TRT, with updated, accurate and complete information as required by the registration process, as well as to keep this information updated.

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

5. Documents, data, photos and other information material collected during the registration and verification of an account are subject to the retention requirement that TRT has to comply with under the anti-money laundering regulations, also using the services offered by a third party provider.

6. TRT applies regular checks on user accounts also through the request to provide information on the origin of the Assets if and when expressed or converted into virtual currency or legal tender currency. In addition, TRT is entitled to block or freeze any User account, at its discretion and without prior notice, in case of suspected illegal origin of the Assets.

I can't believe this post was made months ago but the website The Rock Trading is still standing. Definitely not a place to trust with your funds and OP, that's a lot of money they have stolen from you. And looking on the previous replies, seems no group wants to help out OP. One thing I know for sure is that karma will hit them very soon. Nobody can hide their foul smell forever.

Another excellent post from you.

It is clear by the Trust level that shows on their profiles that they have zero credibility.

It is a shame that Arbiter could take a long time to come to a decision with a median time of up to 11 months. I hope your situation gets resolved soon.

Either way, Rock Trading reputation is in tatters and that is one good thing that came out of this very bad situation. If you did not fight back and did not expose eliale and his Rock Trading scam then nobody would know about what was going on. I never heard of Rock Trading before reading your thread and after reading it would never recommend it to anybody.

Eliale and Rock Trading scammers have been very careful from the time you exposed them. They will have to think twice before selective scamming other users because the consequences will be disastrous for whatever will be remaining of their reputation.

I already posted that the ABF hasn't said nothing:


Taking in account that the ABF site says that the median time to a decision is about 11 months, this isn't a complete surprise.

But recently they received an email about this case. I'm waiting to see if they answer.


It's the ODR system that sends automatically the complaint to the ABF. Not the complainer.

He already confessed that he received the ODR complaint several times.



On their TOS and Italian Law, let me quote again this pearl from the Rock CFO:


English translation:
For example, in the specific case of the Lady, having converted to euros even if not withdrawing, it has become automatically a "currency converter" (the term is not my bag's flour) therefore, must do KYC / AML. In any case, we are evolving the system in anticipation of the V AML directive, which is already anticipated by the MEF, where even those who deal only with crypto will have to do KYC / AML.
For this reason, for those who want to remain anonymous, we advise against using any exchange that operates in Europe.


This means 4 things:
I) Since he says he is acting under the directive and not under their TOS/FAQ, he is confessing what is obvious: he is acting in violation of their own TOS/FAQ.

II) Since he says he is acting under the directive, he is confessing that he isn't acting under current Italian Law, because he knows Italian Law doesn't bind exchanges to apply duties of KYC to customers who only want to withdraw bitcoin.

III) Since he says he is "evolving" (without changing his own TOS/FAQ!!) his verification practices in "anticipation" of the V European directive on AML/KYC, he is confessing that he knows that this Directive isn't in force in Italy, as I told him months ago. And that every time he invoked this directive he was lying, knowing very well that isn't in force until Italy adopt it on its internal Law.

IV) That he is ready to do to any unverified customer what he is doing to me, without any care for his TOS or Italian Law.


It's a complete lie that the Italian Authorities are anticipating the directive. They couldn't do this until they change current Italian Law, that I quoted above: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50490829

The Rock CFO just don't know when to stop lying. His posts here will be read by his customers, friends and family for years.

Very good. The Arbitrator (if you ever made the request) will evaluate all your points and ours.

But, maybe you missed my question, when opening a claim with the Arbitrator, you must receive a confirmation email within 72 hrs.  Did you receive it? If yes, on which date you received it?

It is very, very, very strange that, up to know, we are still waiting for a notification

Thank you

I could post a scan of the last transfer done to the Rock from an exchange, but there is no point, since they won't release my money. Ditto for posting a scan of the banking account with the IBAN they have on file.

Moreover, he just confessed he knows the ODR complaint was made with the same names they have on file.
And the 20 euro cost was paid with a banking transfer on the same name and the ODR and the Arbitrator received a PDF document from the Bank with the same names.




I already completely debunked this chapter 8 of their TOS as a ground for demanding verification.

Rule 1 applies only during registration. I'm registered for more than 7 years.
Rule 2 describes the verification process: doesn't create any new ground to start one and also reports it self to the "as required by the registration process" or to update information on the documents sent.
Rule 3 and 6 depends on suspicious transactions or suspicions on the illegal origin of the founds. They haven't even tried to substantiate this. They know that the money was earned on their exchange since 2012, trading.
Rule 4: applies to "Users who have not been properly verified". Not unverified users, but users who have not completed properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or not all the necessary documents. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion, not beginning of the verification process.
And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as their FAQ makes clear:
"verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27

Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing.

Their last TOS update changed nothing on the voluntary nature of the verification.

What this chapter 8 of their TOS says clearly is that they couldn't block covertly my account and leave my unaware of the block for 9 months: 8.4 says they had to notify me. But I had to go to them.


I already quoted italian Legislative Decree. 90/2017 who changed Legislative Decree No. 231/2007 many times.

Legislative Decree No. 231/2007, as emended by Legislative Decree No. 90/2017, article 3, n.º 5, i), only subjects crypto exchanges to these duties if: “service providers related to the use of virtual currency, limited to the performance of the conversion of virtual currencies from or into currencies with legal tender".

And article 1, n.º 2, let. ff, of the same Decree makes a clear distinction between simple “scambio” (trading) and “conversione”. So conversione under article 3, n.º 5, i), can’t be identified with pure trading. Only withdrawal or handle of legal bills can be qualified as conversione/conversion.

So, only conversion of crypto into fiat by withdrawal to a bank account (or mailing real fiat bills) is subject to duties of KYC, since one can’t launder money if only deposits bitcoins and withdraws bitcoin again. I left clear I only want to withdraw bitcoin.

The rest are just lies and pretexts to keep my money blocked forever, has he confessed he were willing to do.

The Rock Trading have thousands of unverified customers, but they are blackmailing only me. Of course, the others don't have 35500 euro in their account.

It could be an option  but not enough for EU AML and Italian directives we must follow.

But, again, the OP accepted our new TOS released last April 2018 where it is clearly stated the following:


https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

8. AML REQUIREMENTS

1. When registering on the Website, the User is required to provide any necessary information and/or documents that TRT deems, in its sole discretion, to be suitable to maintain compliance with any law, regulation and internal policy (see the Anti-Money Laundering Policy adopted by TRT).

2. During the account verification process, the User must provide all documents that will be required. In particular, by registering an account on the Website, the user agrees to provide TRT, or another party delegated to carry out the anti-money laundering obligations imposed by law on behalf of TRT, with updated, accurate and complete information as required by the registration process, as well as to keep this information updated.

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

5. Documents, data, photos and other information material collected during the registration and verification of an account are subject to the retention requirement that TRT has to comply with under the anti-money laundering regulations, also using the services offered by a third party provider.

6. TRT applies regular checks on user accounts also through the request to provide information on the origin of the Assets if and when expressed or converted into virtual currency or legal tender currency. In addition, TRT is entitled to block or freeze any User account, at its discretion and without prior notice, in case of suspected illegal origin of the Assets.

Also, reading our AML policies, you'll read:

LEGISLATIVE GROUNDS
Following the implementation of Directive 2015/849/EU (known as the Fourth AMLD) into our legal system, the relevant national legislation has been significantly amended, extending its scope to service providers relating to the use of virtual currency, limited to the performance of the activity of converting virtual currencies from or into legal tender currencies.

The IV AMLD has been implemented in our legal system with the Legislative Decree. 90/2017, which amended and supplemented the Anti-Money Laundering Decree. The Anti-Money Laundering Decree consists of three main pillars:

    proper customer verification;
    retention of customer data and information;
    suspicious transaction reports.

The regulatory provisions of the Anti-Money Laundering Decree provide for an accurate identification of customer information and introduce the concept of a "risk-based approach" according to the "sensitivity" of customers, comparing customer due diligence obligations with the risk related to the customer, the product and the geolocation.

Authorities at national level called upon to supervise compliance with the regulations are the Ministry of the Economy of Finance, the Financial Information Office (FIU) at the Bank of Italy, the Supervisory Authorities of each sector where the parties required to apply the regulations operate, the Anti-Mafia Investigative Directorate (DIA) and the Tax Authorities.

---------------------------------------------

In case of an inspection by the Authorities we cannot say " ohhhh we checked the signature...." They would simply fine us....

Or, after releasing the funds, IF and I repeat IF the OP was impersonating the real owner and, suddenly the real owner claim the assets, we cannot say " I'm sorry but we released funds based on a transaction signature...." (btw, according to our forensic analysis it would be quite difficult to do so)

She would have 100% reason to sue us for wrong doing and, she would be right to do so....

Not easy tu run a FIAT/Crypto exchange in a regulated area.....

Anyway thank you for the suggestion!