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Topic: The transaction fee is just ridiculous. - page 2. (Read 17471 times)

legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
December 05, 2014, 03:14:28 PM
You can avoid the fees if you use electrum where you can set it to zero. But you must fulfilled certain conditions like age and size of the transaction. If you are sending large tx who cares of the fees which adds up few cents. So it all depends on how you look at it.

Electrum forces you to specify a transaction fee if the priority of the coins is not high enough. I guess there are other clients where you can try your luck with zero transaction fee, and hope for it to get confirmed.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
December 04, 2014, 09:11:40 PM
Ok. Everyone is talking about it.

It's the $82,432,657.90 transaction that cost $0.04 to send.
Well I guess this certainly proves that the OP does not know what he was talking about.

I don't think there is any other payment method that allows for such a large transaction to take place at the same (or lower) cost

I think there is one...and one only.  Cash. And that would be a shit ton of it, not to mention transporting it to the destination.. security... nevermind.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Thug for life!
December 04, 2014, 08:58:02 PM
Ok. Everyone is talking about it.

It's the $82,432,657.90 transaction that cost $0.04 to send.
Well I guess this certainly proves that the OP does not know what he was talking about.

I don't think there is any other payment method that allows for such a large transaction to take place at the same (or lower) cost
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
December 04, 2014, 12:51:52 PM
Fees aren't really that high. I do understand why some would feel it is ridiculous. It is when newbie has a lot of dust from faucets and it costs more to send them. That is how bitcoin works, and it is not likely to change any time soon.
Q7
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
December 04, 2014, 09:46:35 AM
You can avoid the fees if you use electrum where you can set it to zero. But you must fulfilled certain conditions like age and size of the transaction. If you are sending large tx who cares of the fees which adds up few cents. So it all depends on how you look at it.
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
December 04, 2014, 02:33:48 AM
Ok. Everyone is talking about it.

It's the $82,432,657.90 transaction that cost $0.04 to send.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
November 25, 2014, 11:10:18 AM
We are FORCED to pay a tax upon every transaction, and they say Bitcoin doesn't have any taxes? That's just pure crap. Taxation is unconstitutional theft via armed extortion. In Bitcoin's case, it's unavoidable, and is without the armed extortion (YOU ARE FORCED TO PAY).


Lol i don't understand that fee is small for me i could pay this ammount. This is better than fiat.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
November 25, 2014, 10:56:50 AM
Plus you have to come out of the basement and talk to people, that's always a huge disadvantage of real world shit. Wink
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 500
November 25, 2014, 10:50:57 AM
Just a couple days ago I did this:
...
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.

You don't understand how it works. In every case, your transaction was in the next block, and the time it took had nothing to do with your fee.


I do understand exactly how it works. I was trying to be funny. Sorry. Smiley

I was attempting to show how ridiculous the fee transaction fee is. You can currently pay 0.00001 as your tx fee. In the three cases above, I paid zero, 0.00001 and 0.0001.

The only reason Western Union is faster, is because, they use an internal messaging system, so you can think of it as off-chain, if that makes sense.
Sending money via Western Union is actually not faster. It will generally take ~10 minutes from the time you hand the western union agent cash and the properly filled out form for the money to be available for the receiver (eg. "sign and transmit" the transaction). This does not even count the time it takes to drive to walmart (or other wu location), wait in line and fill out the paperwork

The sender and the receiver have to lose time to wait in line and fill the sheet. Also you can only send money during the opening hours and opening days of the WU location.
The fees are huge and you have to add a 3% fee on currency exchange.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Thug for life!
November 24, 2014, 01:07:29 AM
Just a couple days ago I did this:
...
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.

You don't understand how it works. In every case, your transaction was in the next block, and the time it took had nothing to do with your fee.


I do understand exactly how it works. I was trying to be funny. Sorry. Smiley

I was attempting to show how ridiculous the fee transaction fee is. You can currently pay 0.00001 as your tx fee. In the three cases above, I paid zero, 0.00001 and 0.0001.

The only reason Western Union is faster, is because, they use an internal messaging system, so you can think of it as off-chain, if that makes sense.
Sending money via Western Union is actually not faster. It will generally take ~10 minutes from the time you hand the western union agent cash and the properly filled out form for the money to be available for the receiver (eg. "sign and transmit" the transaction). This does not even count the time it takes to drive to walmart (or other wu location), wait in line and fill out the paperwork
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
November 23, 2014, 06:58:50 PM
miners need extra rewards

In comparison to the block reward, the transaction fees pale at this point of time.
Going forward, as the block reward reduces, transaction fees will increase in importance.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
November 23, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
Just a couple days ago I did this:
...
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.

You don't understand how it works. In every case, your transaction was in the next block, and the time it took had nothing to do with your fee.
This is not true. The time it took (measured in blocks) has to do with the inventory of unconfirmed transactions in the nodes' memory pool. If the pool of unconfirmed transactions is large then a lower fee TX will take longer to confirm. If the memory pool size is small then it will likely not matter what size TX fee is included (up to a point)
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
November 23, 2014, 07:54:35 AM
Just a couple days ago I did this:
...
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.

You don't understand how it works. In every case, your transaction was in the next block, and the time it took had nothing to do with your fee.


I do understand exactly how it works. I was trying to be funny. Sorry. Smiley

I was attempting to show how ridiculous the fee transaction fee is. You can currently pay 0.00001 as your tx fee. In the three cases above, I paid zero, 0.00001 and 0.0001.

The only reason Western Union is faster, is because, they use an internal messaging system, so you can think of it as off-chain, if that makes sense.
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 500
November 22, 2014, 04:43:19 PM
Having a fee is a great way to avoid having to many unnecessary transactions but the miners don't need the fees to profit right now, the block reward is enough so even lower fees in average could be possible.

It's true that miners don't need the fees to profit, but then they also don't need the transactions to profit.  Indeed, it seems that the block reward presently works against "even lower fees" because a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned.

Could you explain why a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned?

Sure.

Currently, when a new block is found, the entire block is sent to adjacent nodes which then, in turn, pass the block to their neighbours.  Meanwhile, other miners continue to build on the previous block, likely unaware that a new block has been found.  This delay between finding a block and getting a copy to every miner is what gives rise to orphans.

Including a transaction in a block increases the size of the block.  A block full of transactions can be a thousand times larger than an empty block.  Larger blocks take longer to propagate throughout the network and so allow more time for rival blocks to inadvertently appear.

You might be interested in some rough calculations concerning this effect Gavin did a little while ago.

You might also be interested in this proposal to improve the efficiency of relaying blocks.

"(The) delay between finding a block and getting a copy to every miner is what gives rise to orphans. (...) Larger blocks take longer to propagate throughout the network and so allow more time for rival blocks to inadvertently appear."

Ok thanks for the explication!
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
November 22, 2014, 03:46:54 PM
Also highly dependent who mines it, individual pool or soloers can elect not to include free tx I think, or allocate minimal space in the block for free ones.
hero member
Activity: 502
Merit: 500
November 22, 2014, 03:19:31 PM
Just a couple days ago I did this:
...
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.

You don't understand how it works. In every case, your transaction was in the next block.

Sometimes it skips a block or 2 (from experience with my TXs)
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
November 22, 2014, 03:13:34 PM
I think we oughta scrap the current system and have an experience bar on blockchain.info, that keeps track of your mining level. Once it hits 99, you can order a cape for 0.01 BTC.

Then when you hit 150 XP, have "Staff of -v n00bs" that costs say 3 mana to use and lasts 24 hours.
legendary
Activity: 4522
Merit: 3426
November 22, 2014, 02:47:44 PM
Just a couple days ago I did this:
...
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.

You don't understand how it works. In every case, your transaction was in the next block, and the time it took had nothing to do with your fee.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 504
November 22, 2014, 02:23:31 PM
miners need extra rewards

I think we oughta scrap the current system and have an experience bar on blockchain.info, that keeps track of your mining level. Once it hits 99, you can order a cape for 0.01 BTC.


That would be the greatest incentive.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1011
November 22, 2014, 08:21:54 AM
Having a fee is a great way to avoid having to many unnecessary transactions but the miners don't need the fees to profit right now, the block reward is enough so even lower fees in average could be possible.

It's true that miners don't need the fees to profit, but then they also don't need the transactions to profit.  Indeed, it seems that the block reward presently works against "even lower fees" because a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned.

Could you explain why a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned?

Sure.

Currently, when a new block is found, the entire block is sent to adjacent nodes which then, in turn, pass the block to their neighbours.  Meanwhile, other miners continue to build on the previous block, likely unaware that a new block has been found.  This delay between finding a block and getting a copy to every miner is what gives rise to orphans.

Including a transaction in a block increases the size of the block.  A block full of transactions can be a thousand times larger than an empty block.  Larger blocks take longer to propagate throughout the network and so allow more time for rival blocks to inadvertently appear.

You might be interested in some rough calculations concerning this effect Gavin did a little while ago.

You might also be interested in this proposal to improve the efficiency of relaying blocks.
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