miners need extra rewards
Miners already receive reward for their work. It is called "mined blocks". They don't need to leach off the Bitcoin users to survive. Else, what will be the difference between fiat and BTC?
Topic: The transaction fee is just ridiculous. - page 3. (Read 17471 times)
Miners already receive reward for their work. It is called "mined blocks". They don't need to leach off the Bitcoin users to survive. Else, what will be the difference between fiat and BTC?
miners need extra rewards
Having a fee is a great way to avoid having to many unnecessary transactions but the miners don't need the fees to profit right now, the block reward is enough so even lower fees in average could be possible.
It's true that miners don't need the fees to profit, but then they also don't need the transactions to profit. Indeed, it seems that the block reward presently works against "even lower fees" because a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned.
Could you explain why a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned?
We are FORCED to pay a tax upon every transaction, and they say Bitcoin doesn't have any taxes? That's just pure crap. Taxation is unconstitutional theft via armed extortion. In Bitcoin's case, it's unavoidable, and is without the armed extortion (YOU ARE FORCED TO PAY).
You are not FORCED to pay anything.
You are not even FORCED to use bitcoin.
You are welcome to use bitcoin if you like, and you are welcome to pay any fee (or no fee at all if you like).
Equally, the peers on the network are not FORCED to relay your transaction if they don't want to.
They are welcome to relay your transaction if they like, and they are welcome to ignore your transaction if they like.
Equally, the miners are not FORCED to include your transaction in their blocks.
They are welcome to include your transaction if they like, and they are welcome to leave your transaction for some other miner to include in their block if they like.
Isn't it great how NOBODY is FORCED to do any of these things with bitcoin.
well said its a luxery fee of getting ur transfer made in timely manner
Just a couple days ago I did this:
I could have sent it without paying a fee though. Might have took an hour to be included in a block. However, I was impatient, and 4 cents to send 3500 USD seemed ridiculously cheap to me.
Oddly enough, I also did this one:
And I didn't even pay the fee, it was faster. So to me, that's also ridiculous.
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.
Quote
Sent $1056.98
Sent $1762.95
Sent $705.93
Total Output $3,525.86
Fees $0.04
Received Time 2014-11-20 02:31:41
Included In Blocks 330788 (2014-11-20 02:40:45 +9 minutes)
Sent $1762.95
Sent $705.93
Total Output $3,525.86
Fees $0.04
Received Time 2014-11-20 02:31:41
Included In Blocks 330788 (2014-11-20 02:40:45 +9 minutes)
I could have sent it without paying a fee though. Might have took an hour to be included in a block. However, I was impatient, and 4 cents to send 3500 USD seemed ridiculously cheap to me.
Oddly enough, I also did this one:
Quote
Total Output $ 2,581.56
Fees $ 0.00
Received Time 2014-11-12 05:52:26
Included In Blocks 329646 (2014-11-12 05:56:53 +4 minutes)
Fees $ 0.00
Received Time 2014-11-12 05:52:26
Included In Blocks 329646 (2014-11-12 05:56:53 +4 minutes)
And I didn't even pay the fee, it was faster. So to me, that's also ridiculous.
Quote
Total Output $ 1,988.86
Fees $ 0.004 (yes, less than half a cent.)
Received Time 2014-11-13 03:41:14
Included In Blocks 329770 (2014-11-13 03:56:02 +15 minutes)
Fees $ 0.004 (yes, less than half a cent.)
Received Time 2014-11-13 03:41:14
Included In Blocks 329770 (2014-11-13 03:56:02 +15 minutes)
Man, this is annoying, when I pay small, it takes longer than paying the "standard" and when I don't pay, it gets confirmed the fastest.
Having a fee is a great way to avoid having to many unnecessary transactions but the miners don't need the fees to profit right now, the block reward is enough so even lower fees in average could be possible.
It's true that miners don't need the fees to profit, but then they also don't need the transactions to profit. Indeed, it seems that the block reward presently works against "even lower fees" because a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned.
My preferred behaviour for a wallet, would be that it asks me every single time what fee I want to pay. Thus if I'm just doing a "wallet maintenance" shuffle and don't care how long it takes, no tx fee, then if I want "same day" service pay regular fee, if I think my TX is super important and want preferential treatment I should find it easy to add fees as I see fit.
One thing that would be good though, is if wallet could report the average fees and number of TX for the last block. Then if you saw fees were high and TX were high, you'd know that network was "busy" and you'd have the option of matching high fees to get priority or being content with waiting it out.
I believe that tx fees should maybe be "marketed"/explained to the user in terms of a familiar thing like postal service, with notional standards of service like "surface letter", "airmail letter", "international express" and "same day" and proportionate TX pricing. Well I'm not saying a no-fee TX should take a "far corner of the world" 3 months like surface letter, just that the scaling of time/cost should be similar.
One thing that would be good though, is if wallet could report the average fees and number of TX for the last block. Then if you saw fees were high and TX were high, you'd know that network was "busy" and you'd have the option of matching high fees to get priority or being content with waiting it out.
I believe that tx fees should maybe be "marketed"/explained to the user in terms of a familiar thing like postal service, with notional standards of service like "surface letter", "airmail letter", "international express" and "same day" and proportionate TX pricing. Well I'm not saying a no-fee TX should take a "far corner of the world" 3 months like surface letter, just that the scaling of time/cost should be similar.
Having a fee is a great way to avoid having to many unnecessary transactions but the miners don't need the fees to profit right now, the block reward is enough so even lower fees in average could be possible.
My preferred behaviour for a wallet, would be that it asks me every single time what fee I want to pay. Thus if I'm just doing a "wallet maintenance" shuffle and don't care how long it takes, no tx fee, then if I want "same day" service pay regular fee, if I think my TX is super important and want preferential treatment I should find it easy to add fees as I see fit.
One thing that would be good though, is if wallet could report the average fees and number of TX for the last block. Then if you saw fees were high and TX were high, you'd know that network was "busy" and you'd have the option of matching high fees to get priority or being content with waiting it out.
One thing that would be good though, is if wallet could report the average fees and number of TX for the last block. Then if you saw fees were high and TX were high, you'd know that network was "busy" and you'd have the option of matching high fees to get priority or being content with waiting it out.
I expect you'll be interested to read:
Quote from: Gavin Andresen
The wallet code in the next major release of Bitcoin Core (version 0.10) will be much smarter about transaction fees.
Instead of using hard-coded rules for what fees to pay, the code observes how long transactions are taking to confirm and then uses that data to estimate the right fee to pay so the transaction confirms quickly– or decides that the transaction has a high enough priority to be sent for free but still confirm quickly.
There is a new option that lets you control how quickly you’d like your transactions to confirm: txconfirmtarget. The default value is 1, meaning “I’d like my transactions to be sent with enough fee or priority so they are very likely to be included in the next block.” Set it to 6 and it will take on average six blocks for your transactions to get their first confirmation.
Read more here. Instead of using hard-coded rules for what fees to pay, the code observes how long transactions are taking to confirm and then uses that data to estimate the right fee to pay so the transaction confirms quickly– or decides that the transaction has a high enough priority to be sent for free but still confirm quickly.
There is a new option that lets you control how quickly you’d like your transactions to confirm: txconfirmtarget. The default value is 1, meaning “I’d like my transactions to be sent with enough fee or priority so they are very likely to be included in the next block.” Set it to 6 and it will take on average six blocks for your transactions to get their first confirmation.
My preferred behaviour for a wallet, would be that it asks me every single time what fee I want to pay. Thus if I'm just doing a "wallet maintenance" shuffle and don't care how long it takes, no tx fee, then if I want "same day" service pay regular fee, if I think my TX is super important and want preferential treatment I should find it easy to add fees as I see fit.
One thing that would be good though, is if wallet could report the average fees and number of TX for the last block. Then if you saw fees were high and TX were high, you'd know that network was "busy" and you'd have the option of matching high fees to get priority or being content with waiting it out.
I believe that tx fees should maybe be "marketed"/explained to the user in terms of a familiar thing like postal service, with notional standards of service like "surface letter", "airmail letter", "international express" and "same day" and proportionate TX pricing. Well I'm not saying a no-fee TX should take a "far corner of the world" 3 months like surface letter, just that the scaling of time/cost should be similar.
One thing that would be good though, is if wallet could report the average fees and number of TX for the last block. Then if you saw fees were high and TX were high, you'd know that network was "busy" and you'd have the option of matching high fees to get priority or being content with waiting it out.
I believe that tx fees should maybe be "marketed"/explained to the user in terms of a familiar thing like postal service, with notional standards of service like "surface letter", "airmail letter", "international express" and "same day" and proportionate TX pricing. Well I'm not saying a no-fee TX should take a "far corner of the world" 3 months like surface letter, just that the scaling of time/cost should be similar.
Out of curiosity.
Even when setting the tx fee to 0 in settings (bitcoin core client), when sending a payment I get a similar popup.
Yes - Send transaction and pay fee
Cancel - Cancel transaction
How is it then "optional" to pay the fee? There doesn't seem to be a way around it.
Even when setting the tx fee to 0 in settings (bitcoin core client), when sending a payment I get a similar popup.
Yes - Send transaction and pay fee
Cancel - Cancel transaction
How is it then "optional" to pay the fee? There doesn't seem to be a way around it.
Did you try the Command-Line options -mintxfee=
Noone is forcing you to include the fee
Armory is. Said about 1000 times in this thread
Armory is not the only one. Almost every single Bitcoin client is now forcing us to pay the tx fee. I think Blockchain.info is the only exception. But even in Blockchain.info, I had one transaction turned down with BTC0.00005 tx fee.
Noone is forcing you to include the fee
Armory is. Said about 1000 times in this thread
So use a different client, or bug the Armory developers to change it.
You are a complaining about a problem with the software you have chosen to use, not with Bitcoin.
That is why I said the transaction fee is ridiculous, not "Bitcoin is ridiculous"
Noone is forcing you to include the fee
Armory is. Said about 1000 times in this thread
So use a different client, or bug the Armory developers to change it.
You are a complaining about a problem with the software you have chosen to use, not with Bitcoin.
Noone is forcing you to include the fee
Armory is. Said about 1000 times in this thread
We are FORCED to pay a tax upon every transaction, and they say Bitcoin doesn't have any taxes? That's just pure crap. Taxation is unconstitutional theft via armed extortion. In Bitcoin's case, it's unavoidable, and is without the armed extortion (YOU ARE FORCED TO PAY).
Just go ahead and send your transactions with zero fees. Noone is forcing you to include the fee and lots of transactions go through without paying. Also there is no punishment for not including a fee. Sure, you may have to wait longer for confirmations or even resend transactions that never confirm, but you won't go to jail for it.
Bitcoin was never meant for micro transactions.
When have you ever seen a cheque for 4 cents or $0.04? (USD value). When do you ever swipe your credit card for 4 cents? If you go to the actually minimum tx fee of 0.00001 BTC, then today that is less than half a cent, or $0.004.
When have you ever seen a cheque for 4 cents or $0.04? (USD value). When do you ever swipe your credit card for 4 cents? If you go to the actually minimum tx fee of 0.00001 BTC, then today that is less than half a cent, or $0.004.
Transaction fee is not high. If you make small BTC transfer, then fee is too high. You can try to pay smaller fee, but the question then will be - when transfer will arrive. With standart fee 0.0001 BTC, transfer go instantly.
Actually one of the advantages of Bitcoin was supposed to be the ease of doing Micro-transactions. The transaction fee will make that advantage exist no more. Something needs to be done on this front.
Mr Borisz,
There is this fork of the bitcoin core client:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/update-2015-05-10-bitcoin-core-soft-fork-no-forced-tx-fee-v0101-available-22434
It gets updated a few days or a few weeks after a new version of bitcoin core comes out.
It does not completely eliminate tx fees. For that, you can still do the raw transaction thingie.
There is this fork of the bitcoin core client:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/update-2015-05-10-bitcoin-core-soft-fork-no-forced-tx-fee-v0101-available-22434
Quote
2014-10-05 Update:
NFTF - version 0.9.3 released.
NFTF - version 0.9.3 released.
It gets updated a few days or a few weeks after a new version of bitcoin core comes out.
It does not completely eliminate tx fees. For that, you can still do the raw transaction thingie.
Out of curiosity.
Even when setting the tx fee to 0 in settings (bitcoin core client), when sending a payment I get a similar popup.
- snip -
How is it then "optional" to pay the fee? There doesn't seem to be a way around it.
Even when setting the tx fee to 0 in settings (bitcoin core client), when sending a payment I get a similar popup.
- snip -
How is it then "optional" to pay the fee? There doesn't seem to be a way around it.
If you send a transaction without a customary fee, then it is very likely that your transaction will take an exceptionally long time to confirm.
The Bitcoin Core wallet is designed to protect unknowledgeable users from this problem. If you really want to send a transaction without a customary fee with the Bitcoin Core wallet, then you can, but you'll need to use raw transactions.
If you don't want to take the risks associated with using raw transactions, and you want to take the risks associated with sending transactions without their customary fee, then you can use a wallet that doesn't enforce the fee requirements. It's "optional" because you can "opt" to use a wallet that doesn't force you to include the fee.
Understood! Thanks for the explanation!
Out of curiosity.
Even when setting the tx fee to 0 in settings (bitcoin core client), when sending a payment I get a similar popup.
- snip -
How is it then "optional" to pay the fee? There doesn't seem to be a way around it.
Even when setting the tx fee to 0 in settings (bitcoin core client), when sending a payment I get a similar popup.
- snip -
How is it then "optional" to pay the fee? There doesn't seem to be a way around it.
If you send a transaction without a customary fee, then it is very likely that your transaction will take an exceptionally long time to confirm.
The Bitcoin Core wallet is designed to protect unknowledgeable users from this problem. If you really want to send a transaction without a customary fee with the Bitcoin Core wallet, then you can, but you'll need to use raw transactions.
If you don't want to take the risks associated with using raw transactions, and you want to take the risks associated with sending transactions without their customary fee, then you can use a wallet that doesn't enforce the fee requirements. It's "optional" because you can "opt" to use a wallet that doesn't force you to include the fee.
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