Topic: The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery (Read 5735 times)

Think Europe and the States have done a good work accepting human beings for what they are; the States still have the problem of keeping the black community impoverished by keeping them low saying they can't succeed because of what their ancestors endured; they received a lot of government handouts that are known to keep community into poverty

What's really sad is that humans have not learned anything from slavery. They are so self-important, self-centered and selfish that they missed this window of opportunity to evolve into better beings. So many years have passed and yet both the descendants of slaves and slave masters are still so busy indulging in their petty sentiments. It's disheartening that after all the suffering endured during that period of history, humans have still not made this very simple connection, that life is not meant to be caged.

Let me help you with the difference between fact and opinion.


"Facts" are in bold, opinions are underlined. This was the first response where you attempted to state a "fact." The word "facts" is in quotations because there is no source, and it's so vague that it may be true. For example, "the first ones" means what? People in the world? People in the developed world? People in Europe? The loose way your "fact" is presented raises questions as to its validity, but even taking it on face value, it remains that the vast majority of what you're posting is still opinion.

No, that's not MY argument for christ sake. That's OPs argument, based on the way he generally lumped the people who abolished slavery in with the people who started it by only identifying them based on their race. OP's sole qualifier is "white Europeans." It makes no sense to praise "white Europeans" for ending slavery unless you're trying to counter the argument that "white Europeans" have something to be ashamed of re: slavery. If you're trying to give credit to the specific generation that ended slavery, you would not lazily over generalize like that. The fact that you do is evidence you're trying to say that later generations of "white Europeans" made up for the earlier generations of "white Europeans." That's the argument I'm taking issue with.

I'm not saying the people who ended slavery don't deserve credit. I'm saying if you're sole qualifier for identification is based on a general race you cannot exclude their entire history. You're ascribing to me an argument I am not making, by virtue of my single response to OP. On top of that, you said the same thing I did later: "As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act." Either my first response you took issue with and this response with you is correct, or you're arguing against your own point as well as mine. It cannot hold that my first response is wrong, but when you said it three days later it was correct.

You still don't get it. For the amount of flack Europeans give the US about slavery, this is a little annoyingly arrogant. Who do you think sold the US all its slaves? The EUROPEANS! Europe built its empire on the backs of slaves. Just because it was "the first" to support abolition doesn't mean the entirety of Europe deserves "less blame". Furthermore there is evidence to suggest that there was a large economic motive for Europe to use its new found policy of abolition to financially extort the US population into a civil war that would result in debt that was crippling to US sovereignty. So Europe's motives were not exactly 100% pure.

We agree compliments are not racist and I agree generalising too much about a group could be racist but am not doing that, Europeans were the first ones to abolish slavery and pushed for its abolition in most countries thus should not be blamed more than any other culture in regards to slavery when they clearly are; if anything they should be blamed way less and praised for the actions they took that led to less slavery in the world; people that blame the Europeans for slavery have to be considered in favor of slavery, hope you are not

No, because we aren't saying the same thing...
1. Not all abolitionists were slave holders
2. Most slave holders that later became abolitionists were born into the system (like most of us today)
3. The people who abolished slavery were not the same individuals that implemented the system

You seem to be arguing that most former slave holders one day decided slavery is wrong, but because they once thought it was ok they deserve condemnation. It is almost as if you are treating the entire nation as if they were one slave holding individual. Some people deserve praise, others do not. Your analysis of the situation is incomplete.

Haha, jesus h. christ, no. My point is OP posted something and I responded to him. Then you quoted me, directly responding to what I said, and started talking about something neither of us were talking about. I took exception to it because it didn't address what I said, but implied I was down with slavery.

As for us both saying the same thing, I've already quoted it. How many times do I have to quote it, and what good does it do since I've already quoted it and you ignored it?

Here it is again, just for the devil of it, my first post in this thread:


This was in response to the OP, which was "The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery" (the title of this thread).


And just for reference, here's the part where you and I expressed the exact same sentiment (again):



We're saying the same thing. Can't we just agree to agree?

So now because I talked with you first, you now get to decide with whom I talk to and which topics I am addressing now?

Where exactly did I say what?

Mate, your first post in this thread was in response to my response to OP. You were not talking about anything before you addressed me first.

Myself and others were very clearly talking about the US civil war and how it relates to slavery, you are the one that just decided to change the subject because you just stated you intended to talk about something else...

Where exactly did you say this? Please quote. I am very clearly making a distinction between pro-slavery whites and abolitionist whites, as well as one generation from a following generation of people. Claiming I am not making that distinction does not make it magically true.

Who is talking about the US? OP didn't bring it up, I didn't bring it up, you brought it up. That means you're changing the topic from what we were talking about.

"You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it." How? How do I act like the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it?

You said the same thing I did. YOU are acting like the same entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. See how much sense that makes?

Calling my point irrelevant doesn't magically make it so.

You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. They were not. Most of the people who ended slavery were BORN into a system that uses slavery just as you were WELLAFTER it was created. My point is that same high standard of blame must also be applied to you since you directly enjoy an improvement of quality of life as a result of this system of forced labor in the form of cheaper products and services. Unless you are willing to give other slavery resistors of the time the same leeway you are by your own standards condemning yourself just as you condemn those men and women who lived at the time regardless of their stance on or resistance to slavery.

It's a totally irrelevant point! Also, check the definition of fact. You stated an opinion.

OP says: white slave owners weren't so bad cuz they abolished slavery.
I say: before they abolished it, they accepted slavery as legitimate, so no cookie.
You say: You support slavery in the modern day.

Irrelevant to the OP, and my comment! And you put words in my mouth! I said nothing of the guilt of white Americans. I disclaimed praise for white Europeans for abolishing an institution they made possible earlier. The exact same thing you said later in a separate post.

I think you misunderstand. I didn't say you support slavery because if your statements. I was saying it is a FACT that you currently support slavery regardless of this discussion here. My point was if you were to apply such logic of guilt to all white Americans of the time, even those that fought slavery, by your very own metric you are also just as guilty.

Are you kidding me? You just said the same thing I did, which when I said it you took in some warped way as to somehow mean I supported slavery. You're unbelievable!


Wtf gives?

What is the fact? I still don't see it. You said you think white europeans should be thanked for ending slavery and other races should have more blame. Those are opinions. They are still not historical facts. "It is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery"  <--- Your exact words. It is an opinion.

Compliments are not racist. The way you generalize and distinguish people based on race is what is racist.

I've said nothing about white privilege. I don't know what you're carrying on about, but you're clearly confusing me with another poster.

I think you are frankly ignorant abut the difference between a standard war and civil war. There are some very fundamental differences.

Oh come on, don't tell me you actually think that, war is all about domination and subjugating other people, that's all it's good for you really are being naive.

I think you have a serious lack of historical knowledge on the subject. If I remember right you aren't even from the US. What makes you such an expert on the subject of the US civil war as a European? There is a reason they call it a CIVIL war, because the people are fighting amongst themselves, not an outside enemy like a stereotypical war where the conquered has their culture destroyed and all the peoples subjugated. The union had a clear upper hand to begin with, there was no chance they would be allowed to secede let alone enslave all the white northerners fighting for the Union. My point is white Americans fought to end slavery too, not just to preserve it.