The whole tipping culture in western countries is unfair and totally wrong!

Cryptock

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Quote from: panganib999 on October 23, 2022, 05:35:12 AM

Tipping in its roots should be done willingly and not compulsively. I am thinking it has become so ubiquitous that restaurants and food establishments integrated the tipping system into their billing system which is so unfair for the waiters and the customers. On one hand it incentivizes underpaying the waiters and other food handlers coz the rest of their pay could always just be covered by the customer's tips. On one hand this pay is shouldered by the customer which let me just remind you is already covering the pay courtesy of their bill along with other taxes and amenities that are included in their receipt, leaving the restaurant with little to no responsibility in the payment of their workers.

Everyone would agree with how unfair this tipping culture has been but it has become so ingrained in the western culture that a paradigm shift is unlikely to happen, at least not anytime soon.

There are a few people who would not like to sell their integrity -they are the one who would give and their best and would not look back for the money
These kind of people are very less and they are the boldest of all.

Cryptock

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Quote from: Adbitco on October 23, 2022, 03:26:39 AM

This is very unfair, do you know there is something we don't think of at the meantime. Those classes of workers can't be characterized for any reason to those in construction workers therefore they are well paid. But if I may get something clearly about tip which is somehow called 'gratuity'. From my research and understanding, most of these workers apart from construction company and being tip that's, whatever they made during their service hours are being returned to their employer, at end of the day or week it would be included in their wages, this applicable to the delivery agent, barbershop, and restaurants. The construction workers are mostly covered with insurance so focused on the fieldwork pay rates are very comfortable.

if I would get a chance to work in the field where there is tipping thing.
I would never ask for tip - I would rather give my best shot. Rather than looking at people's face and begging for tip - I would rather earn it hard way. And Not look back for the tip

Cryptock

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Quote from: Mahanton on October 18, 2022, 06:06:41 PM

Yes, i do also have those kind of feels where there are times which i do love to tip when i do get satisfaction on someones service even though to think that they are being paid or have salary but at least im much aware
on how low these people been earning on monthly basis which is something that we do have in reality but its not that compulsory on giving up tips.Its optional and you arent obliged on doing so.
This is why you should really not make yourself get stressed and i dont even know that why this certain topic needs to be discussed considering this action is on self will.
Im surprised that there are even workers who are really that expecting for some tip which it is a bit too much i would say.

In our country tip is not mandatory either but a lot of staff acts to get the tip forcefully
I went to a wedding and the waiter were standing in a que to get the tip from the people - and they were forcing people to do so.

panganib999

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Tipping in its roots should be done willingly and not compulsively. I am thinking it has become so ubiquitous that restaurants and food establishments integrated the tipping system into their billing system which is so unfair for the waiters and the customers. On one hand it incentivizes underpaying the waiters and other food handlers coz the rest of their pay could always just be covered by the customer's tips. On one hand this pay is shouldered by the customer which let me just remind you is already covering the pay courtesy of their bill along with other taxes and amenities that are included in their receipt, leaving the restaurant with little to no responsibility in the payment of their workers.

Everyone would agree with how unfair this tipping culture has been but it has become so ingrained in the western culture that a paradigm shift is unlikely to happen, at least not anytime soon.

Adbitco

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This is very unfair, do you know there is something we don't think of at the meantime. Those classes of workers can't be characterized for any reason to those in construction workers therefore they are well paid. But if I may get something clearly about tip which is somehow called 'gratuity'. From my research and understanding, most of these workers apart from construction company and being tip that's, whatever they made during their service hours are being returned to their employer, at end of the day or week it would be included in their wages, this applicable to the delivery agent, barbershop, and restaurants. The construction workers are mostly covered with insurance so focused on the fieldwork pay rates are very comfortable.

Mahanton

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on October 17, 2022, 05:42:17 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on October 17, 2022, 05:15:07 PM

In Europe tipping is not mandatory and I like it this way. I don't get how you can tip 20% of your bill to a waiter. Imagine you get more expensive food and drinks and leave 200 EUR at the restaurant, compared to someone who lives just 20. Why should you give a much bigger tip if you're letting the whole restaurant make more money?

I usually leave a tip at the restaurant but it's never a % of the bill. If I spend 20 EUR I might tip 3 EUR, but if I spend 100 I'll still tip not more than 5 EUR. Where I come from a tip is meant for a bartender or a waiter to get a drink on my tab. If a beer costs 3 EUR at a pub, that's what I'm going to tip, regardless of the money I spend there. When I go with a few friends each of us leaves 3 EUR so the guy get beers from all of us.

bottomline, it is all up to you. but if you want to read a lil bit of culture for every country you visited, you may do so. it will give you insights the variation of culture from one place to another and why they have such traditions. but tipping has no defined laws and regulation. if you feel you're up to it, then give it. but if it is not, like if it is already your last money, then don't force yourself. you won't be jailed because you're not tipping somebody else's service.

Yes, i do also have those kind of feels where there are times which i do love to tip when i do get satisfaction on someones service even though to think that they are being paid or have salary but at least im much aware
on how low these people been earning on monthly basis which is something that we do have in reality but its not that compulsory on giving up tips.Its optional and you arent obliged on doing so.
This is why you should really not make yourself get stressed and i dont even know that why this certain topic needs to be discussed considering this action is on self will.
Im surprised that there are even workers who are really that expecting for some tip which it is a bit too much i would say.

qwertyup23

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I do think that people are accustomed to tipping the service establishment and works. Personally, I learned to tip via watching my parents and/or other people do it. So I do think that there is this societal pressure that comes with it- the idea that you have to tip when it comes to people who do service.

Earlier, I had my haircut and I paid using e-cash. Since I do not have any cash with me, I really felt bad not leaving a tip for my barber earlier; though I told him that I'll add him twice the tip the next time I visit him.

Bottomline is, we have been accustomed to this kind of service ever since. I guess what you mentioned OP is another view and perspective about tipping; but I doubt that people would actually start to follow it anytime soon.

bakasabo

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Quote from: KennyR on October 16, 2022, 06:17:11 PM

Quote from: bakasabo on October 15, 2022, 02:55:30 PM

What is your opinion on this?

I've never been to Hawaii, but tipping there seems to be like a must. I can understand parking valets tipping, as they help to save time, concierges - as they solve your problem, porters, as they also have. But a bartender - pouring drinks seems to be their original work, why it should be tipped ?

Everything have got some reason. Bartender pouring the drinks seems to be easy. Here he need to make the perfect mix and if you ask for something unique he/she needs to make it for your taste. Above all, he is the only person who can understand well about your drinks limit and give accordingly. Another thing, if you're found dozed he too have responsibility to send you home with safety or take you to the lounge for rest. Being a bartender and receiving tips too got some good reasons Tongue

Bartender was just an example. Maybe good, maybe bad example. My vision is that every work must be rewarded, but not every work must be rewarded extra. Giving tips for perfect drink mix? I would say yes and no. It is bartenders work to make perfect mix. Would you tip a cook if he would turn your stake into coal instead of medium ? I am to pay extra for work well done, but I am not ready to make double pay for a regular work done. For example I leave tips in restaurants, cafes, when having my hair done, tire changed. Or I would better say I leave change.

I have seen many times people say that they leave tips for waitress because they have a hard work, and they are on their feet whole day. Sales persons in shops also are on their feet whole day. But at the cash desk people pay price on items tag, they dont leave extra money. You know who also work hard ? Miners work hard, they breath polluted air, they work in difficult conditions. Think they get tips for their work?

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: darkangel11 on October 17, 2022, 05:15:07 PM

In Europe tipping is not mandatory and I like it this way. I don't get how you can tip 20% of your bill to a waiter. Imagine you get more expensive food and drinks and leave 200 EUR at the restaurant, compared to someone who lives just 20. Why should you give a much bigger tip if you're letting the whole restaurant make more money?

I usually leave a tip at the restaurant but it's never a % of the bill. If I spend 20 EUR I might tip 3 EUR, but if I spend 100 I'll still tip not more than 5 EUR. Where I come from a tip is meant for a bartender or a waiter to get a drink on my tab. If a beer costs 3 EUR at a pub, that's what I'm going to tip, regardless of the money I spend there. When I go with a few friends each of us leaves 3 EUR so the guy get beers from all of us.

bottomline, it is all up to you. but if you want to read a lil bit of culture for every country you visited, you may do so. it will give you insights the variation of culture from one place to another and why they have such traditions. but tipping has no defined laws and regulation. if you feel you're up to it, then give it. but if it is not, like if it is already your last money, then don't force yourself. you won't be jailed because you're not tipping somebody else's service.

darkangel11

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In Europe tipping is not mandatory and I like it this way. I don't get how you can tip 20% of your bill to a waiter. Imagine you get more expensive food and drinks and leave 200 EUR at the restaurant, compared to someone who lives just 20. Why should you give a much bigger tip if you're letting the whole restaurant make more money?

I usually leave a tip at the restaurant but it's never a % of the bill. If I spend 20 EUR I might tip 3 EUR, but if I spend 100 I'll still tip not more than 5 EUR. Where I come from a tip is meant for a bartender or a waiter to get a drink on my tab. If a beer costs 3 EUR at a pub, that's what I'm going to tip, regardless of the money I spend there. When I go with a few friends each of us leaves 3 EUR so the guy get beers from all of us.

DrBeer

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: KennyR on October 16, 2022, 06:17:11 PM

Quote from: bakasabo on October 15, 2022, 02:55:30 PM

What is your opinion on this?

I've never been to Hawaii, but tipping there seems to be like a must. I can understand parking valets tipping, as they help to save time, concierges - as they solve your problem, porters, as they also have. But a bartender - pouring drinks seems to be their original work, why it should be tipped ?

Everything have got some reason. Bartender pouring the drinks seems to be easy. Here he need to make the perfect mix and if you ask for something unique he/she needs to make it for your taste. Above all, he is the only person who can understand well about your drinks limit and give accordingly. Another thing, if you're found dozed he too have responsibility to send you home with safety or take you to the lounge for rest. Being a bartender and receiving tips too got some good reasons Tongue

only in Japan - people work hard and don't want to be tipped
I have heard that people dont like to be tipped in Japan

Japan has a very peculiar culture, or rather ethical standards. They say that tipping is somehow insulting or humiliating. To be honest, I did not understand this issue deeply, but there is such a nuance. At the same time, on the other hand, I heard that this is not an absolute rule. But it should be noted that culture and traditions in Japan are revered very seriously. In a word, you don’t need to say that it’s “not right with tips” or “but in Japan they don’t give tips” - at the beginning it’s worth imbued with their culture and traditions

DrBeer

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DrBeer on October 16, 2022, 04:29:55 PM

Quote from: bakasabo on October 15, 2022, 02:55:30 PM

What is your opinion on this?
I've never been to Hawaii, but tipping there seems to be like a must. I can understand parking valets tipping, as they help to save time, concierges - as they solve your problem, porters, as they also have. But a bartender - pouring drinks seems to be their original work, why it should be tipped ?

In part, I have been lucky enough to travel a lot and have visited over 40 countries around the world. And to be honest - not a few restaurants and pubs in those countries where I visited, a certain percentage must be included in the check. As a rule, it is called something like "for service".
I did not specify the scheme of remuneration of waiters, but I will assume that they have a base - the lowest rate, and everything else is just the same "tips" or "payment for service". Therefore, the check you provided is not something surprising!

Oh - wow - 40 countries - but how come?
DO you travel on your own or your job takes you to the places. Which country you liked the most among all the 40 countries?
I mean as far as hospitality is concerned and the culture ofcourse.

Not to brag, but to answer a question

USA, Canada, Mexico, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Jamaica, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Portugal, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, Greece, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Albania , Britain, Ireland, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, Turkey, Egypt, Madagascar, Algeria, Tunisia, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Camdoba, Singapore, Indonesia, New Zealand.. Maybe I missed something

2/3 - tourism, 1/3 - work.

The most memorable - Thailand, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, Mexico, Peru. These countries are the most different from everything I visited.
Although most countries also really liked - nature, culture, cuisine, people ...
The only country where there are ambiguous feelings is Cuba ...
I can’t say that somewhere I was met not hospitably, or hostilely. In Mexico, it was interesting to go on my own outside of Cancun, to "authentic Mexico" and not touristy. A little risky, but a lot of memories

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Quote from: bakasabo on October 15, 2022, 02:55:30 PM

What is your opinion on this?

I've never been to Hawaii, but tipping there seems to be like a must. I can understand parking valets tipping, as they help to save time, concierges - as they solve your problem, porters, as they also have. But a bartender - pouring drinks seems to be their original work, why it should be tipped ?

Everything have got some reason. Bartender pouring the drinks seems to be easy. Here he need to make the perfect mix and if you ask for something unique he/she needs to make it for your taste. Above all, he is the only person who can understand well about your drinks limit and give accordingly. Another thing, if you're found dozed he too have responsibility to send you home with safety or take you to the lounge for rest. Being a bartender and receiving tips too got some good reasons Tongue

DrBeer

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Quote from: bakasabo on October 15, 2022, 02:55:30 PM

What is your opinion on this?
I've never been to Hawaii, but tipping there seems to be like a must. I can understand parking valets tipping, as they help to save time, concierges - as they solve your problem, porters, as they also have. But a bartender - pouring drinks seems to be their original work, why it should be tipped ?

In part, I have been lucky enough to travel a lot and have visited over 40 countries around the world. And to be honest - not a few restaurants and pubs in those countries where I visited, a certain percentage must be included in the check. As a rule, it is called something like "for service".
I did not specify the scheme of remuneration of waiters, but I will assume that they have a base - the lowest rate, and everything else is just the same "tips" or "payment for service". Therefore, the check you provided is not something surprising!

teosanru

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First of all, A few people saying this optional and not mandatory might not know it's mandatory at many places infact some add it into the bill as Service Charge.

Talking about the flawed logic first, you are absolutely right why should one tip someone what they are assigned to do? Also if they are having low pays out of profits of hotels, it's absolutely the hotel's fault who is charging so much from me and not giving enough to it's waiters or staff. They should correct their business model first. Secondly if this is the criteria there a lot of people who are underpaid even in corporates this way to one should tip everyone after completing their task.

bakasabo

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What is your opinion on this?

I've never been to Hawaii, but tipping there seems to be like a must. I can understand parking valets tipping, as they help to save time, concierges - as they solve your problem, porters, as they also have. But a bartender - pouring drinks seems to be their original work, why it should be tipped ?

spectre71

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Welp, most employees do the least amount possible as they can get away with. They are incentivized to be good because there take home will be reflected in money. A shining example is bartending.

Pay them more with no tips (Seattle) and they will be lazy.

When SF did it's number on min wage I stopped tipping in SF. I paid it already.

So when a breakfast goes from 8.99 to 17.99 due to wages, I stop tipping. They don't get both.

goldkingcoiner

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Tipping culture is fine and just as the way it should be. By which I mean not peer-pressured or otherwise pressured upon you. I have no idea why the US demands tips and looks down upon those that do not tip, but says absolutely nothing about how low the hourly wages are. Are restaurant owners in America so broke that they have to coerce the employee's paychecks out of their customers? But then again this is US "culture". I have never witnessed such coercion in Europe. In many Asian countries like Japan, tipping is considered insulting to the waiter/cook/owner.

nurilham

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In my place, usually not pegged to give a tip, just sincerity from us and this is not mandatory. If we are satisfied with the service, we can give a tip, if not giving a tip is fine. But indeed there are some merchants who actually do not recommend giving tips.

However, this seems to be different in some countries where tipping may not be mandatory but has become a habit, so when we don't tip it will look strange or be considered something that is not in accordance with the service.

If these tips are not big enough, it might not be a problem, but if they are big and happen anywhere, indeed this may be an unexpected addition to expenses for foreigners who come to the country.

However, the culture of each country is different, so in my opinion, follow what is in that country so that we become more comfortable. So, I will not justify that it is fair/unfair/true/wrong.

Anonylz

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Quote from: el kaka22 on October 13, 2022, 11:05:22 AM

The biggest difference is, if someone does a bad job at any other business, they would be either fired, or warned, or just ignored, but in any job that you are required to get a tip to survive, if you do a bad job, or if the customer is cheap, you are going to end up starving because you are not getting paid enough. That’s the thing, in my nation we have tipping too, it's not as "culture" as it is in the USA for example, and the guy who gets it, gets paid the same amount that 20%+ of our nation does, and that means any guy at a factory making your shirt is getting the same money.

West needs to realize that you can't have a job in the world that says "you either do a good job and good tips, or you are going hungry to bed tonight", that’s not acceptable.

I won't consider myself having a job when my earnings will solely rely on people's generosity and not because I have worked for the money and deserve to be paid. What happens if majority are facing economic crisis and decided to go tipping-less Huh

I will be left barely nothing because others are suffering. I honestly don't know why this should be allowed is an advanced country like the United States because it seem like explanation on both customers and workers who have to survive on tips.

Topic: The whole tipping culture in western countries is unfair and totally wrong! (Read 786 times)