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Topic: There was no DAO hack - page 7. (Read 11675 times)

hv_
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
June 18, 2016, 08:21:02 AM
#53
Maybe it is just all PR

The craziest conspiracy theory is the whales did this on purpose not just to profit by shorting and repurchasing cheaper, but also to create a massive amount of promotion for The DAO.

The any promotion is good promotion school of marketing.

$50 ETH here we come? (note it could also crash to $1 so please don't think I am offering any advice)

Normally it is best to buy when there is "blood in the streets". Ethereum isn't likely dead. So far, CC is a delusion of decentralization any way.

The ETH chart is looking very similar to BTC's 2013/14 crash.

Note after an extended deadcat bounce, then BTC proceeded to make lower lows and eventually found bottom @150ish.

I rescind the quoted speculation. Lower lows seen on the chart now, because of the revelation that ETH is fucked.

It's going down, down, down. Game over.

The big shit might come soon as the press takes this to damn all cryptos...
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
June 18, 2016, 07:57:21 AM
#52
Maybe it is just all PR

The craziest conspiracy theory is the whales did this on purpose not just to profit by shorting and repurchasing cheaper, but also to create a massive amount of promotion for The DAO.

The any promotion is good promotion school of marketing.

$50 ETH here we come? (note it could also crash to $1 so please don't think I am offering any advice)

Normally it is best to buy when there is "blood in the streets". Ethereum isn't likely dead. So far, CC is a delusion of decentralization any way.

The ETH chart is looking very similar to BTC's 2013/14 crash.

Note after an extended deadcat bounce, then BTC proceeded to make lower lows and eventually found bottom @150ish.

I rescind the quoted speculation. Lower lows seen on the chart now, because of the revelation that ETH is fucked.

It's going down, down, down. Game over.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
June 18, 2016, 07:37:47 AM
#51
Gulp.

Charge it to experience! We told you DAO investors that it was an insane risk for very little possible reward. Now you will learn to appreciate the wisdom of people who have more knowledge than you do.

By bringing this to court and regardless of the court's decision, it will establish a precedent that law is superior to code.

The only way code wins, is if it is truly decentralized and can't be vacated by law.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1007
June 18, 2016, 07:35:33 AM
#50
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
June 18, 2016, 07:26:28 AM
#49
well, then, bitcoin should have 184 billion coins right now.
-snip-
No. The *spec* for Bitcoin is 21 million coins max. If something breaks the spec it is an implementation issue and can (and should) be reversed in order to maintain the *social contract*. The 2010 bug was clearly an implementation bug that broke the spec.

The DAO had no spec, the truth was in the (poorly documented) code. Per the about page on the website: https://daohub.org/about.html - "The DAO is borne from immutable, unstoppable, and irrefutable computer code, operated entirely by its members, and fueled using ETH which Creates DAO tokens."
I keep trying to tell everyone who tries to use this as a justification for a bail-out. ETH seems like the Fed of digital cryptocurrencies. The following applies to also this user:
history does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.
Bitcoin; 2010 (about a year after start)-similar episode with Bitcoin where 184 billion bitcoins were created in a few transactions, then these transactions were erased and bitcoin forked.
Wrong. That incident in Bitcoin created additional supply that breaks the initial specifications (protocol). That can not be compared to this incident, where the ETH specifications were not harmed. Everyone keeps using this as a bullshit argument to bail-out the holders, and rewrite a history of a "immutable blockchain" (which ETH will not be afterwards). The Mt.Gox incident proved which blockchain is truly secure and immutable.


hv_
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
June 18, 2016, 07:18:16 AM
#48
If all that was done just by standard usage of the code / smart contracts and anybody could do this again with not much effort this looks not like a sharky 'hack attack' rather sth our banks do all the day: looking for opportunities in our hacky regulated financial env..
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
June 18, 2016, 06:49:31 AM
#47
Unclear whether the signature even checks out. May be fake.

===== BEGIN SIGNED MESSAGE =====
To the DAO and the Ethereum community,

I have carefully examined the code of The DAO and decided to participate after finding the feature where splitting is rewarded with additional ether. I have made use of this feature and have rightfully claimed 3,641,694 ether, and would like to thank the DAO for this reward. It is my understanding that the DAO code contains this feature to promote decentralization and encourage the creation of "child DAOs".

I am disappointed by those who are characterizing the use of this intentional feature as "theft". I am making use of this explicitly coded feature as per the smart contract terms and my law firm has advised me that my action is fully compliant with United States criminal and tort law. For reference please review the terms of the DAO:

"The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation."

A soft or hard fork would amount to seizure of my legitimate and rightful ether, claimed legally through the terms of a smart contract. Such fork would permanently and irrevocably ruin all confidence in not only Ethereum but also the in the field of smart contracts and blockchain technology. Many large Ethereum holders will dump their ether, and developers, researchers, and companies will leave Ethereum. Make no mistake: any fork, soft or hard, will further damage Ethereum and destroy its reputation and appeal.

I reserve all rights to take any and all legal action against any accomplices of illegitimate theft, freezing, or seizure of my legitimate ether, and am actively working with my law firm. Those accomplices will be receiving Cease and Desist notices in the mail shortly.

I hope this event becomes an valuable learning experience for the Ethereum community and wish you all the best of luck.

Yours truly,
"The Attacker"
===== END SIGNED MESSAGE =====

Message Hash (Keccak): 0xaf9e302a664122389d17ee0fa4394d0c24c33236143c1f26faed97ebbd017d0e
Signature: 0x5f91152a2382b4acfdbfe8ad3c6c8cde45f73f6147d39b072c81637fe81006061603908f692dc 15a1b6ead217785cf5e07fb496708d129645f3370a28922136a32
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
June 18, 2016, 05:49:50 AM
#46
well, then, bitcoin should have 184 billion coins right now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Quote
On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or "block chain" which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins.On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol.

Let's re-reverse THAT. Incidentally, I am neutral on DAO reversal. If eth will crash, i will diversify more of my fiat (not btc) toward it.

No. The *spec* for Bitcoin is 21 million coins max. If something breaks the spec it is an implementation issue and can (and should) be reversed in order to maintain the *social contract*. The 2010 bug was clearly an implementation bug that broke the spec.

The DAO had no spec, the truth was in the (poorly documented) code. Per the about page on the website: https://daohub.org/about.html - "The DAO is borne from immutable, unstoppable, and irrefutable computer code, operated entirely by its members, and fueled using ETH which Creates DAO tokens."
sr. member
Activity: 446
Merit: 250
Unpaid signature.
June 18, 2016, 04:30:02 AM
#45
Will this DAO incident cause cautions on all smart contract platform including those based on the bitcoin?
sr. member
Activity: 285
Merit: 251
hero member
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
June 18, 2016, 01:32:17 AM
#43
Investors agreed to give their ETH to whomever it was who figured out how to take them up on their offer.

Read this carefully.

The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation.

(Unless someone can point to a bug in the EVM that executed the code improperly, but I haven't seen any such claim.)




+1
"The DAO’s code controls and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation."

Nobody would ever choose to have a child with a genetic abnormality that creates a disability, but when a disabled baby is born the parents don't usually send it back, and in the vast majority of cases the parents learn to love the child anyway.

@VB, The DAO code worked the way it was programmed so you should accept what happened and move on. Anything else and you damage the whole crypto project by setting a precedent that will cause far more damage than this 'hacker' did
legendary
Activity: 1210
Merit: 1024
June 17, 2016, 10:43:56 PM
#42


For once I agree with Smooth.


~BCX~



sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
June 17, 2016, 10:40:54 PM
#41
Maybe it is just all PR

The craziest conspiracy theory is the whales did this on purpose not just to profit by shorting and repurchasing cheaper, but also to create a massive amount of promotion for The DAO.

The any promotion is good promotion school of marketing.

$50 ETH here we come? (note it could also crash to $1 so please don't think I am offering any advice)

Normally it is best to buy when there is "blood in the streets". Ethereum isn't likely dead. So far, CC is a delusion of decentralization any way.

The ETH chart is looking very similar to BTC's 2013/14 crash.

Note after an extended deadcat bounce, then BTC proceeded to make lower lows and eventually found bottom @150ish.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
June 17, 2016, 10:03:04 PM
#40
Paypal stole the $600 of BTC I sold via a matchup on localbitcoins. Can Vitalik help me with that also? Does anyone know anyone who knows him and put in a good word for me?

They took almost 5k from me and i had my lawyer get it back after a 2.5 month long battle..
then when they were done they stole a hair under $700 and kept saying they already gave it back.

They kept telling me i had broke the TOS i signed.
It is forbidden to use ANY related virtual currency shit with Paypal period .

Like others before me they simply kept demanding i get a signed affidavit (admitting my guilt)
I kept asking why would i admit guilt and what will that do ?
Will they give me my frozen money then ?
They would not comment.. ever !
They just kept demanding i admit guilt or saying my account / funds would stay locked.

BUT HEY !

Head on over to the Market Section here.. 99% of all topics for HUNDREDS of pages
are buying & selling Bitcoin etc with Paypal so it HAS to be ok right ?

Crypto.. pinnacle of Stupidity on a scale never seen before in human history.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
June 17, 2016, 07:37:09 PM
#39
The Code Is The Law.*

*Until someone gets butthurt.

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legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035
June 17, 2016, 04:24:54 PM
#38
Looks like the "hacker" was already paid with 3k BTC (2.2million in USD) shorts on ethereum before he used the DAO (as it was correctly designed.)

https://twitter.com/EthereumWiki/status/743905989682855936

Think about this for a moment . Now a precedent has been set for these weak turing complete blockchains- ETH and any future DAO , that incentivizes hackers to attack and exploit weak code regardless of HF freezing and reversing Txs. Expect more attacks in the future!
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
June 17, 2016, 03:43:47 PM
#37
Paypal stole the $600 of BTC I sold via a matchup on localbitcoins. Can Vitalik help me with that also? Does anyone know anyone who knows him and put in a good word for me?
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035
June 17, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
#36
https://twitter.com/goenda/status/743816080343195649

"@ethereumproject I made a bad contract in the first days ETH was online and lost 2K ETH with it, can I also get it back?"
legendary
Activity: 1256
Merit: 1009
June 17, 2016, 03:13:55 PM
#35
Quote
"Miners and mining pools should resume allowing transactions as normal, wait for the soft fork code and stand ready to download and run it if they agree with this path forward for the Ethereum ecosystem."

Don't the miners make the system on which the law is built on - in both bitcoin and ethereum?

If 51% of miners choose a certain path then I really don't see an issue (they could choose a different path and the code can't force anything on the miners or blockchain either way).

I guess I agree that there was no DAO hack.  I also agree that miners choosing a different direction of code is a higher authority than the code itself.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331
June 17, 2016, 03:04:58 PM
#34
We could see lower levels. 7 dollar floor...5 at the worst. This project still has a bright future. However the price is all speculation right now and it only makes sense. Dont forget ETH is a GAS...GAS prices go up and down. I expect this to be normal on the ETH network. I think more stable coins/investments will spring up on the ETH network. ETH is just the GAS.  Someday it will maybe be some very expensive gas indeed.

I actually agree on $5-7 worst case scenario.
What i will be doing in the meantime...absolutely nothing, but will probably start buying eth for $$ OR even btc (less likely) at those prices.
This might be good for mining as POS could be further delayed, naturally.
Clearly, btc has at least temporary (or maybe permanent) edge now, until segwit is relesed and LN is started.
An unlikely failure of segwit and/or LN and the leadership roles might reverse once again.



If the price goes down to $5 or below, it is not profitable for many people with high electricity price. So it does not help.

so, these people will drop off, network speed will decrease somewhat and profitability increase
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