This is bad: Russia 'abducts' Estonian officer after Obama says US will defend.. - page 2.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Rassah on September 12, 2014, 10:51:31 PM

Pretty sure EVERYONE is talking about the Russian army that Putin admitted were there a few weeks ago.

A dozen or so Russian soldiers, who were stationed near the Russo-Ukrainian border lost their way and ended up in Ukraine. That is what Putin admitted. So tell me, if Russia is going to invade Ukraine, they will do that with just a dozen servicemen? For sure, the Ukrainian army is incapable of fighting against the Russian army. But that doesn't mean that Putin will invade Ukraine with just 10 soldiers.

Rassah

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 12, 2014, 09:26:44 PM

Quote from: countryfree on September 12, 2014, 07:12:57 PM

Definitely, Ukrainians would love to see all the Russians on its soil leaving.

If you are referring to ethnic Russians, then more than one-third of the population of Donbass is consisted of ethnic Russians and they have a right to stay there. Whether the Kiev junta wants them out or not, they are going to stay there. And if you are referring to Russian citizens, then no more than one-tenth of the NAF soldiers are Russian citizens.

Pretty sure EVERYONE is talking about the Russian army that Putin admitted were therea few weeks ago.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: countryfree on September 12, 2014, 07:12:57 PM

Definitely, Ukrainians would love to see all the Russians on its soil leaving.

If you are referring to ethnic Russians, then more than one-third of the population of Donbass is consisted of ethnic Russians and they have a right to stay there. Whether the Kiev junta wants them out or not, they are going to stay there. And if you are referring to Russian citizens, then no more than one-tenth of the NAF soldiers are Russian citizens.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: Nemo1024 on September 12, 2014, 07:38:08 AM

‘No country can legally invade another country without the UN approval’

Definitely, Ukrainians would love to see all the Russians on its soil leaving.

Back to IS, I really find it strange that with ten Arab countries backing the US/EU coalition to fight IS in its stronghold, in Eastern Syria, it was a great opportunity for Russia to look like it wants peace in the world, and that it's ready to help the good guys fighting the bad guys, but it didn't seize it. Sorry, but that's bad for image.

I've found a very interesting article about Russia' strategy in Eastern Europe:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29078541

Nemo1024

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Quote from: countryfree on September 11, 2014, 06:47:24 PM

It's getting worse and worse, it seems Russia and IS are becoming partners.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/assad-moscow-tehran-condemn-obama-isis-air-strike-plan

I understand it would be difficult for Russia to work arm in arm with America and all western countries against IS, but IS is fighting against Syria, which is Russia's friend. Logic says my friend's enemy should my enemy too, but Russia doesn't understand it that way. Russia, Syria and Iran are united against air strikes to fight IS. So things are clear now, all the bad guys are together.

Stop twisting the facts.

Now. Russia is against US/UK bombing Syria on a whim, not against ISIS. Learn the difference.
We all know that these terrorists operate in UK and US as well. So does this give Russia the right to bomb US and UK to get rid of the terrorists in those countries. Because that's what Obama/Cameron imply.

PS:

‘No country can legally invade another country without the UN approval’
http://rt.com/op-edge/187156-us-syria-strike-illegal-un/

Quote

The US can't lead a coalition against ISIS in Syria as attacking a sovereign state without the cooperation of its government and UN approval is a violation of international law, Professor Daoud Khairallah from Georgetown University told RT.

...

DK: What I find very strange is that this alliance between the US and the countries that have helped arming, funding, training and facilitating the work of ISIS and the other derivatives of Al-Qaeda are now the allies that would deal with this problem called ISIS, and without the approval of the government and the forces who have been fighting for 3 years these same groups and telling the whole world “I'm fighting terrorism.” That is something very odd, and where will they get the forces on the ground if they are not going to deal with the Syrian government? That is something that is a huge question mark.

Nemo1024

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 12, 2014, 01:52:22 AM

Quote from: Rassah on September 11, 2014, 03:52:13 PM

Is it revenge to deny citizenship to foreign people who have babies on your soil???

If children of legal immigrants are denied citizenship, then it is not just revenge, but also a gross violation of the human rights. These people have resided in Estonia and Latvia for many decades, and have paid their taxes to these countries. Suddenly, the government says that they don't have the qualification for basic rights, such as citizenship and voting.

In Norway, any child born on Norwegian soil automatically gets Norwegian citizenship, that he/she needs to confirm before he reaches 21 years. I would thing the same applies to people born in Latvia, as long as they are not ethnic Russians (Latvia is a country actively and proudly practising Apartheid)

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Rassah on September 11, 2014, 03:52:13 PM

Is it revenge to deny citizenship to foreign people who have babies on your soil???

If children of legal immigrants are denied citizenship, then it is not just revenge, but also a gross violation of the human rights. These people have resided in Estonia and Latvia for many decades, and have paid their taxes to these countries. Suddenly, the government says that they don't have the qualification for basic rights, such as citizenship and voting.

Rassah

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Quote from: Lethn on September 11, 2014, 07:40:13 PM

Quote from: Rassah on September 11, 2014, 07:28:44 PM

Quote from: Lethn on September 11, 2014, 07:06:25 PM

I love the way some of you guys are already in the process of claiming that anyone who isn't in automatic agreement with you is an enemy and working with ISIS.

How do you interpret a protest against attacking ISIS? Or teaming up with Syria and Iran to protest attacking ISIS?

I've actually read through the article instead of jumping to conclusions.

Quote

Russia said it would not support any military action without a UN resolution authorising it. "The US president has spoken directly about the possibility of strikes by the US armed forces against Isil positions in Syria without the consent of the legitimate government," said a spokesman. "This step, in the absence of a UN security council decision, would be an act of aggression, a gross violation of international law." China said that the world should fight terror but that national sovereignty must be respected.

I note the article doesn't say China condemns it. There's a difference between not supporting, and condemning. Also, pretty hilarious Russia talking about military actions against a country without the consent of its government Grin

Lethn

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Quote from: Rassah on September 11, 2014, 07:28:44 PM

Quote from: Lethn on September 11, 2014, 07:06:25 PM

I love the way some of you guys are already in the process of claiming that anyone who isn't in automatic agreement with you is an enemy and working with ISIS.

How do you interpret a protest against attacking ISIS? Or teaming up with Syria and Iran to protest attacking ISIS?

I've actually read through the article instead of jumping to conclusions.

Quote

Russia said it would not support any military action without a UN resolution authorising it. "The US president has spoken directly about the possibility of strikes by the US armed forces against Isil positions in Syria without the consent of the legitimate government," said a spokesman. "This step, in the absence of a UN security council decision, would be an act of aggression, a gross violation of international law." China said that the world should fight terror but that national sovereignty must be respected.

Rassah

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Quote from: Lethn on September 11, 2014, 07:06:25 PM

I love the way some of you guys are already in the process of claiming that anyone who isn't in automatic agreement with you is an enemy and working with ISIS.

How do you interpret a protest against attacking ISIS? Or teaming up with Syria and Iran to protest attacking ISIS?

Lethn

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I love the way some of you guys are already in the process of claiming that anyone who isn't in automatic agreement with you is an enemy and working with ISIS.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

It's getting worse and worse, it seems Russia and IS are becoming partners.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/assad-moscow-tehran-condemn-obama-isis-air-strike-plan

I understand it would be difficult for Russia to work arm in arm with America and all western countries against IS, but IS is fighting against Syria, which is Russia's friend. Logic says my friend's enemy should my enemy too, but Russia doesn't understand it that way. Russia, Syria and Iran are united against air strikes to fight IS. So things are clear now, all the bad guys are together.

Rassah

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 11, 2014, 12:16:32 PM

Quote from: Daanie on September 11, 2014, 11:45:52 AM

Why take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

That goes both ways. Governments in Latvia and Estonia claim that they were invaded by the USSR during WW2, and therefore refuse to grant citizenship to those ethnic Russian residents who were born after 1941. If these nations can take revenge for something that happened 73 years ago, in 1941 (when Russia didn't even existed), then why can't Russia take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

Is it revenge to deny citizenship to foreign people who have babies on your soil???

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Daanie on September 11, 2014, 11:45:52 AM

Why take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

That goes both ways. Governments in Latvia and Estonia claim that they were invaded by the USSR during WW2, and therefore refuse to grant citizenship to those ethnic Russian residents who were born after 1941. If these nations can take revenge for something that happened 73 years ago, in 1941 (when Russia didn't even existed), then why can't Russia take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 11, 2014, 07:42:14 AM

Quote from: countryfree on September 10, 2014, 06:11:08 PM

No Russian national asset has been stolen that I know of. What are you talking about? Russia sells natural gas to the West, but that isn't stolen, and Russians are happy to get the cash.

Western puppets such as Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Platon Lebedev, Mikhail Brudno, Vasily Shakhnovsky and Leonid Nevzlin fraudulently seized Russian national assets including oil and gas fields using a variety of means (including murder and intimidation of government officials) and later sold them to bankers and investors from the EU and the US.

I can't say it those people are western puppets or not, but I don't see any theft in what they've done. Everything was contractual. They signed agreements with plenty of lawyers on each side and money changed hands. Everything was legal. The same thing has happened in Africa with Chinese businessmen. It's still happening today, the Chinese are buying huge part of Zimbabwe, much more than what the "West" owns in Russia, and there's nothing wrong in having some assets in foreign hands. Many rich Russians own a house in South of France, or in Italy, and do you know why? Because those regions are attractive.

Having many foreigners visiting, or investing, is the best possible sign that a country is successful.

Balthazar

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Quote from: Daanie on September 11, 2014, 11:45:52 AM

Why take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

Good question for estonian, lithuanian and latvian authorities. Right after explanations what exactly happened, because they're refusing to disclose the charges. It looks like the prosecutor's offices of these republics are occupied by idiots.

Daanie

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Quote from: Balthazar on September 07, 2014, 12:14:36 AM

«Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.»

- Matthew 7:12

Estonia and Latvia were "abducting" the retired russian officers on the regular basis, in order to perform a trial on false accusations related to events, which have happened in the 1990s. So I'm not surprised to see a kind of "revenge" from russian side. I also won't be surprised if they "accidentally found" a few kilograms of heroin.

Why take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

Balthazar

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Speaking about "invasion", some interesting statements from Turchynov were published.

http://nbnews.com.ua/ru/news/131604/

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Rassah on September 11, 2014, 11:25:09 AM

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that, while the rest of the world disagrees with you.

According to you, the rest of the world means USA + EU? Get a geography lesson. There are far more countries around the world.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 11, 2014, 11:00:12 AM

The invasion was when a bunch of Russian troops in unmarked military uniforms invaded Crimea, took over the airport, and "kept the peace" BEFORE Crimea had the vote and the "majority" rebelled against the Kiev rule. Care to tell me who in Crimea invited those unmarked Russian troops who all wore balaclavas to keep from being identified?

Give proof that they were active Russian military personal. Anyway, according to the treaty signed between Russia and Ukraine over the use of the Sevastopol naval base, the Russian personal are given certain powers, including the freedom of movement around Crimea.

fsb4000

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Quote from: Rassah on September 11, 2014, 11:25:09 AM

Quote from: fsb4000 on September 11, 2014, 10:38:29 AM

1)Russia didn't invade Crimea. Crimean people did not want to live together with the Nazis from Kiev and asked Russia rejoin. Do you feel the difference?

2)There are no Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine. If there were Russian troops, militia would have won long ago.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that, while the rest of the world disagrees with you.

Crimean people agree with me. Fuck the rest of the world. It's none of their business.

Topic: This is bad: Russia 'abducts' Estonian officer after Obama says US will defend.. - page 2. (Read 4516 times)