This rally is a pirate bubble - page 3.

byronbb

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 05, 2012, 12:41:48 PM

At the end of the day, if you put your money in a black box and get ripped off, it's your own damn fault.
It's very difficult to feel sorry for the investors in Enron, Madoff, or by the same token BTCST. If you invest in something you don't understand you might as well burn your money, the net effect will be identical Wink

True, but I do think we reserve jerk status for the Enrons and Madoffs of the world (I will hold off pre-emptively judging the pirate).

CoinCidental

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1000

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 05, 2012, 12:41:48 PM

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 10:10:15 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:54:38 PM

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 09:35:01 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.

Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default. Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not. When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls. If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation. All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week. I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.

At the end of the day, if you put your money in a black box and get ripped off, it's your own damn fault.
It's very difficult to feel sorry for the investors in Enron, Madoff, or by the same token BTCST. If you invest in something you don't understand you might as well burn your money, the net effect will be identical Wink

People (the majority ) may be stupid when it comes to financial investments but i dont think that automaticaly means they deserve to be led into ponzi's and other types of scam

Shadow383

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 10:10:15 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:54:38 PM

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 09:35:01 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.

Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default. Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not. When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls. If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation. All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week. I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.

At the end of the day, if you put your money in a black box and get ripped off, it's your own damn fault.
It's very difficult to feel sorry for the investors in Enron, Madoff, or by the same token BTCST. If you invest in something you don't understand you might as well burn your money, the net effect will be identical Wink

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 10:10:15 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:54:38 PM

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 09:35:01 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.

Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default. Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not. When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls. If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation. All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week. I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.

+1

byronbb

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

Quote from: ?? on ??

You see Pirate behind everything. Cast your net wider.

True. Bitcoin is a traders wet dream. Sheep playing the market and no SEC.

Cluster2k

legendary

Activity: 1692

Merit: 1018

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 04, 2012, 10:03:48 PM

He'd need to be making in excess of BTC30000 profit per week to make this thing a legit business.

The best case scenario for Pirate's creditors is Pirate greatly lowers his payout. 7% per week or whatever people were mentioning last week is unsustainable. It simply cannot be done. Anyone believing a 7% weekly return is possible from any investment will quickly be parted from their money by get rich quick schemes.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:54:38 PM

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 09:35:01 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.

Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default. Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not. When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls. If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation. All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week. I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Shadow383 on August 04, 2012, 10:03:48 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

How?
He'd need to be making in excess of BTC30000 profit per week to make this thing a legit business.
Check out the volume on Gox. If you were on the right side of every single move the market makes and made up 50% of the entire gox volume, you wouldn't make that. So where's he making that? The silk road doesn't even make that amount of profit.
It just isn't possible to make the numbers fit anymore. If anyone can work out a way that fits within the basic confines of reality that'd give 30000BTC per week whilst having no known customers and no obvious signs of market activity then please do tell.

He does not have to make a profit every week. One week he might lose 5% but the still owe's his creditors 7%. Then the next week he might make 20%, enough to cover the 2nd week and the negative funds from the first week.

Shadow383

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

How?
He'd need to be making in excess of BTC30000 profit per week to make this thing a legit business.
Check out the volume on Gox. If you were on the right side of every single move the market makes and made up 50% of the entire gox volume, you wouldn't make that. So where's he making that? The silk road doesn't even make that amount of profit.
It just isn't possible to make the numbers fit anymore. If anyone can work out a way that fits within the basic confines of reality that'd give 30000BTC per week whilst having no known customers and no obvious signs of market activity then please do tell.

byronbb

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 09:35:01 PM

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.

Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: byronbb on August 04, 2012, 09:24:52 PM

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.

byronbb

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

Most of the rally was for shits and grins. If you're buying at these prices, you're making a mistake.

And if you are selling at these prices?

aq

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: silverbox on August 04, 2012, 03:40:36 PM

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 03:31:53 PM

So what is the estimated amount that is in the Pirate fund?

500k btc.

Then why does he only pay 7% a week. Lately he revealed to buy 18650BTC per day on average. So that would be more like 26%, and still he pays only 7% Cheesy

Vandroiy

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1002

Quote from: silverbox on August 04, 2012, 03:40:36 PM

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 03:31:53 PM

So what is the estimated amount that is in the Pirate fund?

500k btc.

Note that such high estimates are paper coin estimates. I doubt BS&T collected so many actual BTC. We just see interest on former interest, and probably neither ever really existed.

Juggling coins to investors and receiving them back again as re-investment makes the impression of more coins being "inside". This can repeat for quite a while until people notice.

silverbox

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1003

Quote from: stochastic on August 04, 2012, 03:31:53 PM

So what is the estimated amount that is in the Pirate fund?

500k btc.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

So what is the estimated amount that is in the Pirate fund?

niko

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 501

There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: CoinCidental on August 04, 2012, 02:40:45 PM

i think if pirate returned everyones coins

Where would these coins come from? After interest payouts that already happened?

CoinCidental

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1000

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Quote from: dust on August 04, 2012, 01:54:47 PM

The case that would crash the price the most would be if pirate shuts down his operation and returns everyone's money. This would result in a huge supply to sell and a bunch of people looking to take profits.

thats assuming everyone would sell ..........

i think if pirate returned everyones coins many people would look for some other way to grow their balance by investing in something else ,even a mining op which pays 1-2 % a week would probably be overloaded with newcomers

thats assuming the btcst doesnt default though and thats a pretty big assumption when you think about those glorious interest rates ......

dust

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

The case that would crash the price the most would be if pirate shuts down his operation and returns everyone's money. This would result in a huge supply to sell and a bunch of people looking to take profits.

Topic: This rally is a pirate bubble - page 3. (Read 8670 times)