Thoughts about Passport hardware wallet - page 8.

bob123

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 24, 2020, 04:51:30 PM

It has camera and removable batteries, and it will be airgapped.
Maybe add few more zeroes for correct pricing sir Grin

If it is not a high resolution camera, the cam itself only costs ~1$. That's more than enough for a camera module to scan QR codes.
The batteries are not included i'd guess. And the connectors for the battery are like a few cents.

The hardware cost of the device is definitely way below 10$.

Quote from: NotATether on August 24, 2020, 06:57:04 PM

I like how the Passport can't be connected to anything, because people have made spying devices shaped in a USB port and that makes me feel slightly paranoid because however unrealistic it may be (emphasis on unrealistic) I still worry that USB hardware wallets like Ledger might be modified by someone to steal coins.

This 20 year old mobile (a.k.a. "new" hardware wallet) also has interfaces to exploit vulnerabilities: The SD slot and the camera (yes, parsing data from a QR code can create vulnerabilities).
It's not like it is unhackable.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Lucius on August 25, 2020, 06:02:24 AM

...

I am not scared to write what I think unlike some people.
And I do make mistakes.

Atleast you filled your signature quote mr.Right Roll Eyes

Adios

Lucius

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 25, 2020, 05:21:34 AM

Who the fuck knows about Unihertz Atom?
Only you probably, as I never heard about it like most people.
What phone do you have? Is it Unihertz Atom?? Grin

And whats up with that 'wrong again' attitude?
o_e_l_e_o posted that comparison link before (not you personally mr. Right)

You obviously have some other problems besides imagining various cults and very negative reactions if someone unequivocally proves to you that you are wrong. First you claim that there are no smartphones the size of the Nokia 3310 - and I'll show you at least 2 such models that can be found by anyone who knows how to use the Internet.

Secondly if you claim that I wrote something then be sure that it is so, I am no Mr. Right - but neither am I o_e_l_e_o or any other member - at least people in the crypto world should pay attention to details.

Without going further into the OT for me this discussion is over.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 24, 2020, 04:51:30 PM

It has camera and removable batteries, and it will be airgapped.

The removable battery is not proprietary or even similar to a phone's battery, though. It simply uses 2x standard AAA batteries. If anything, that should make it cheaper than using a more expensive rechargeable battery.

Quote from: Lucius on August 25, 2020, 05:09:54 AM

which means that the ideal place to hide this device is right in the box with children's toys🐱‍💻

Until your child decides to dunk it in their juice, take it in the bath, or leave it outside in the rain. Tongue

Quote from: dkbit98 on August 25, 2020, 05:21:34 AM

o_e_l_e_o posted that comparison link before

Yeah, and I stand by that. As someone who likes to carry a hardware wallet around in their pocket, a device which is 8 times larger in volume than the Nano S or the Trezor One does not fit my use case. But hey, YMMV.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Lucius on August 25, 2020, 05:09:54 AM

You're wrong again, my previous post is the first in this thread - I didn't make any comparisons or mention the Nokia 3310. Also, if we compare Unihertz Atom (96 * 45 * 18 mm) with Nokia 3310 (113 mm × 48 mm × 22 mm) it is clear that this smartphone is almost identical to the old dummy phones like Nokia 33/3210.

Who the fuck knows about Unihertz Atom?
Only you probably, as I never heard about it like most people.
What phone do you have? Is it Unihertz Atom?? Grin

And whats up with that 'wrong again' attitude?

o_e_l_e_o posted that comparison link before (not you personally mr. Right)

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 31, 2020, 09:12:50 AM

Lucius

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 24, 2020, 08:27:33 AM

I think you mentioned Nokia 3310 before,
That phone is smaller than most smartphones today, and I shoed image comparison.
I can always dig out brick from 1980 and say, here it is.

You're wrong again, my previous post is the first in this thread - I didn't make any comparisons or mention the Nokia 3310. Also, if we compare Unihertz Atom (96 * 45 * 18 mm) with Nokia 3310 (113 mm × 48 mm × 22 mm) it is clear that this smartphone is almost identical to the old dummy phones like Nokia 33/3210.

And as for this new model of hardware wallet, I think that regardless of the look and price, there will always be those who will buy it - but somehow it does not seem to me that they will have much success. Many models have appeared over the years, but have failed to impose themselves in a market that is mainly focused on the two main manufacturers. Given all their problems, it's a little strange to me that no one is trying (at least seriously) to enter the market with some competing hardware wallet model - Passport definitely doesn't seem like that to me.

Quote from: bob123 on August 24, 2020, 08:49:35 AM

And the good thing is, it won't ever be stolen since it looks like a 20y old mobile Grin

Or those children's toys that imitate mobile phones and make various sounds - which means that the ideal place to hide this device is right in the box with children's toys🐱‍💻

NotATether

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Quote from: bob123 on August 24, 2020, 08:49:35 AM

This thing is ugly as hell.
But i guess it could be a good device for people who don't want to spend more than a few bucks.

Considering all the parts are pretty cheap, the whole device shouldn't cost more than ~20$.

And the good thing is, it won't ever be stolen since it looks like a 20y old mobile Grin

And that's its strong suit in my opinion. Personally I don't care how good-looking a device looks if I'm going to use it for security purposes, and I wouldn't use a glamorous hardware wallet if it turns out to be insecure. I like how the Passport can't be connected to anything, because people have made spying devices shaped in a USB port and that makes me feel slightly paranoid because however unrealistic it may be (emphasis on unrealistic) I still worry that USB hardware wallets like Ledger might be modified by someone to steal coins.

And also the buttons on the Passport are very big and easy to press, it's slightly easier to press the correct physical buttons than ones on the screen like on Trezor, which is especially important if you're typing a password, and a certain number of incorrect tries wipes the device.

dkbit98

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Quote from: bob123 on August 24, 2020, 08:49:35 AM

Considering all the parts are pretty cheap, the whole device shouldn't cost more than ~20$.

There is no way this wallet will be $20, and I would like to see you make one yourself.
It has camera and removable batteries, and it will be airgapped.
Maybe add few more zeroes for correct pricing sir Grin

Judging by their twitter account prototype is released:
https://twitter.com/FOUNDATIONdvcs/status/1296852586398654465

bob123

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This thing is ugly as hell.
But i guess it could be a good device for people who don't want to spend more than a few bucks.

Considering all the parts are pretty cheap, the whole device shouldn't cost more than ~20$.

And the good thing is, it won't ever be stolen since it looks like a 20y old mobile Grin

dkbit98

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Quote from: Lucius on August 24, 2020, 08:13:26 AM

They may not be as small as before, but there are some that are quite small (twice the size of today's standard sizes).
PalmPhone - 3.3-inch display or even smaller Unihertz Atom - 2.45-inch display

I think you mentioned Nokia 3310 before,
That phone is smaller than most smartphones today, and I shoed image comparison.
I can always dig out brick from 1980 and say, here it is.

Lucius

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 01, 2020, 06:05:45 PM

You can try as much as you want but you can't find small smartphone anymore, they are all big and larger than Nokia phone shown before.

They may not be as small as before, but there are some that are quite small (twice the size of today's standard sizes).
PalmPhone - 3.3-inch display or even smaller Unihertz Atom - 2.45-inch display

Quote from: dkbit98 on August 01, 2020, 06:05:45 PM

I won't go more offtopic but there are some people here who are in love with their Ledger hardware wallet Tongue

and I won't name them.
If there are some mistakes and flaws people should expose them here, that is why forum exists.

I’ve never hidden that I own Ledger HW, but that doesn’t mean I’m in some cult as you constantly imply it - nor is anyone else overly aggressive in defending that company. Every omission and vulnerability should be made public and discussed - but no big dramas should be made about some things that are not critical. In my opinion, Ledger has definitely gone in the wrong direction, and there is no doubt about it - but there is no documented case of someone being hacked because a vulnerability, which is the most important thing for me as a user.

DaveF

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Looks like work is progressing on this. They tweeted an image of the prototype cases the other day:

Obviously it's just about impossible to tell from that one image but it looks a bit like really cheap plastic in that shot.
Probably just the way the picture was taken.

Link to twitter picture: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ef9YjYTXkAIXVrp?format=jpg&name=large

-Dave

dkbit98

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Quote from: LTU_btc on August 01, 2020, 05:44:12 PM

Well, this is something what I don't like at all. When I'm looking for new phone, I try to find something what would be not too big for me because I need phone, not a tablet. For me it's not comfortable to use big phone with one hand or put it to my pocket. But offcourse, everyone has their own preferences.

You can try as much as you want but you can't find small smartphone anymore, they are all big and larger than Nokia phone shown before.
So I don't understand people want to have miniature hardware wallet and big smart phones Roll Eyes

Quote from: LTU_btc on August 01, 2020, 05:44:12 PM

I'm not sure where do you see so called "Ledger cult" here? Because I don't see anyone here praising that Ledger is perfect and that they aren't making mistakes.

I won't go more offtopic but there are some people here who are in love with their Ledger hardware wallet Tongue

and I won't name them.
If there are some mistakes and flaws people should expose them here, that is why forum exists.

LTU_btc

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 31, 2020, 09:12:50 AM

Smart phones are getting bigger and bigger but most of people buy them more and more.
Old Nokia phone is smaller than modern smartphones people carry everyday.

Well, this is something what I don't like at all. When I'm looking for new phone, I try to find something what would be not too big for me because I need phone, not a tablet. For me it's not comfortable to use big phone with one hand or put it to my pocket. But offcourse, everyone has their own preferences.
BTW, I'm not sure where do you see so called "Ledger cult" here? Because I don't see anyone here praising that Ledger is perfect and that they aren't making mistakes.

HCP

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 31, 2020, 09:12:50 AM

Quote from: HCP on July 29, 2020, 06:28:36 PM

...

One more member of this Ledger cult

It would appear that you didn't read anything I wrote except for the "I like it" part... so therefore I am part of this so-called "Ledger Cult" Roll Eyes

Instead of deciding what you think I think of Ledger, lets try reading what I actually wrote:

Quote from: HCP on July 29, 2020, 06:28:36 PM

...
And I'm not sure why you seem to think that everyone here "worships" the Ledger... I like it, but as someone else mentioned, it's far from perfect
...

Yep, obviously I'm the Ledger Cult Leader Roll Eyes

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 31, 2020, 09:12:50 AM

Can anything bad be said about Ledger hardware wallet or not?

Obviously, there are lots of "bad things"™ that can be said about it... the buttons feel flimsy... entering PINs/Passphrases is problematic... the screen can't display all the data at once... their native software has a ton of issues... and some of their UI/UX decisions are just terribad, imo... adding all these shitcoins and shittokens instead of providing some "proper" features etc. Having said that, I can understand why they chose that path.

Quote

Does everything happening with Ledger needs to be justified?

I'm not even sure what you mean by this? Huh

Justified by whom? Ledger? The "cult members"? Their detractors? Huh

dkbit98

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Quote from: DaveF on July 31, 2020, 09:50:47 AM

I'm kind of torn about it. Part of me is thinking it's OSS people can do what they want you released it that way.
The other part is yeah, if you are making money from someones code or plan to make money from someones code although you might not owe them money you should be contributing something.

Hardware wallet war saga continues Cheesy

Open source means open source and anyone can use your code...and it seems they are now thinking of using new creative commons license.

Reply from Foundation:
https://twitter.com/FOUNDATIONdvcs/status/1288980273791741952

One more interesting thing is that Passport team previously worked for Obelisk and selling miners:
https://www.bbb.org/us/ma/boston/profile/virtual-currency/obelisk-inc-0021-439541/complaints
https://twitter.com/zachherbert/status/1288504731988570120

DaveF

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The ColdCard people are not real happy with them at the moment:

https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1288860345864527874

I'm kind of torn about it. Part of me is thinking it's OSS people can do what they want you released it that way.
The other part is yeah, if you are making money from someones code or plan to make money from someones code although you might not owe them money you should be contributing something.

-Dave

dkbit98

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Quote from: HCP on July 29, 2020, 06:28:36 PM

...

One more member of this Ledger cult
Can anything bad be said about Ledger hardware wallet or not?
Does everything happening with Ledger needs to be justified?

AGAIN, I do own Ledger wallet but I do not worship it.
Yes Ledger is small and I can crush it if I step on it very easy.

Smart phones are getting bigger and bigger but most of people buy them more and more.
Old Nokia phone is smaller than modern smartphones people carry everyday.

https://comparesizes.com/comparison/Nano-S-vs-Trezor-One-vs-Nano-X-vs-Passport-vs-Nokia-3310/1596053880559#/

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 30, 2020, 02:58:39 AM

I am very much not a part of a Ledger worship gang. I like their devices, I hate their software interface, and now have major concerns regarding their attitudes towards customer privacy.

Ok, that is honest answer.
I expected to see more criticism from other people regarding Ledger, and not just putting things under the carpet (not talking about you in specific, but in general).

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 29, 2020, 03:46:15 PM

You also need to open your Ledger wallet so in reality it is double the size when you use it.

The size when I'm using it is fairly irrelevant since I also have to have my laptop open to use it. It's the size when I'm trying to inconspicuously carry it around with me that concerns me.

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 29, 2020, 03:46:15 PM

And why would you ever carry your fortune with you all the time?

I don't. The majority of my holdings are on various encrypted airgapped wallets or paper wallets. However, I would rarely put more than $50 on a mobile wallet, so if I'm out and about or traveling and anticipate the need to use bitcoin, then I want a small hardware wallet I can easily carry with me.

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 29, 2020, 03:46:15 PM

Sorry for messing with your Ledger worship gang, but somebody has to.

I am very much not a part of a Ledger worship gang. I like their devices, I hate their software interface, and now have major concerns regarding their attitudes towards customer privacy.

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 29, 2020, 03:46:15 PM

I never carry it with myself or on my keys

As I said above, that's entirely up to you and so you may love the Passport. As someone who does carry a hardware wallet around, this device does not fulfill the criteria I need it to. Each to their own.

HCP

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You seem to be forgetting the golden rule of "use cases"... which, as I was quite fond of telling my ex, is "Everyone is NOT you!" Tongue

Simply because you don't see a need for X or you don't want to do Y with your device... doesn't mean nobody else does. I've travelled (internationally) with my ledger before... a small USB key like device barely gets a 2nd look from customs officials when you're travelling with a laptop and have 2 other similar looking USB keys in your bagetc... and having access to "emergency funds" when away from home for 3-4 weeks is useful... especially when your missus likes to shop up a storm! Tongue

And I'm not sure why you seem to think that everyone here "worships" the Ledger... I like it, but as someone else mentioned, it's far from perfect... but then, so is my Trezor... and Electrum... and Mycelium... and Bitcoin Core for that matter... but I still use all of them and would be happy to recommend any of them depending on the use case.

Topic: Thoughts about Passport hardware wallet - page 8. (Read 2279 times)