Topic: Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action - page 37. (Read 39351 times)

I call it basic math, you call it nitpicking. Sorry, 2+2 != 5 is not nitpicking, even though you were just off by one.  

It is fairly simple to screen out duplicate order numbers and even more simple to sort them and screen out obviously false order numbers. Even these simple steps were not taken.

No. It is order number 100070471. It might be the 70,471st order taken, but you have no evidence to support that claim.

Supposition on your part how people are representing their order numbers. Furthermore, there are roughly 150 orders in a row that have the 1000 prefix, but are below 100016000. There are 250 orders that do not have the prefix but do have orders above 16000. These are grouped by date and do not overlap. That seems to blow your guesswork out of the water. I think you must have read somewhere on the internet about this, instead of looking at the data for yourself.

Those two statements have nothing to do with each other. You care about how many devices are Jalapenos, not how many orders have Jalapenos in them. After all, there could be 1 order for 3900 Jalapenos and the average might still hold.

Nope. Each Jalapeno order was NOT for just one unit. Quite the opposite actually. So you cannot extrapolate number of orders to number of Jalapenos because you do not understand the distribution of Jalapenos across orders. Worse, you then added a huge number of "dark mini-rig" orders to make your 7PH/s claim add up.

You simplified with bad assumptions and came up with an obviously incorrect number. Worse, you have been trying to defend it here and only made yourself look worse. If you thought BFL was going to ship 7PH/s and had already shipped 500TH/s, that might explain your undying support of them. Perhaps you can serve as an example to people out there that if they fail at math, they are liable to get fleeced by BFL. I doubt you have the math skills to ever understand your mistake.

And
If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585

I guess if you tell yourself you a right enough times you might start to believe it. Ego is a hell of a drug.

In other news:

Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from Butterfly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585

I was not implying, perhaps you were inferring?

Here is a Law firm that would work:

http://www.scimlaw.com/

1) true.  having responded in kind after being called names was uncalled for.
2) I can point to 4,951 of them. http://bfl.ptz.ro/  While not COMPLETELY accurate, it's better than the stuff most people try to use.
3) Actually, how much does matter.  People are claiming less than 50TH when fairly accurate data points to closer to 165TH.  Defamation works in both directions.
4) You have come late to the party sir, wait until these same people have told you the same thing 20 times after being proved wrong cause they can't accept being wrong.
5) Really?  Name calling is childish and yet your IMPLYING I am a troll is not?  I challenge you to repent sir.

I'm not quite sure what you are implying by this, but I think I take offense to it.

I have a step-son with cerebral palsy; it arises usually from brain damage at birth, affecting fine motor skills and muscle control.  It typically causes no intellectual impairment; that young man has a chess rating over 2000 (although he needs someone to move his pieces for him in tournaments), speaks (with cp "accent") three languages, and is in a PhD program at a major university in international relations.  

So, if this is a slam at the poster, I'm not sure what joke you were trying to make, but, I'm just setting the record straight here.

You filthy reductionist!

(Joking, but it's actually true....)

The best lulz today

1) A Good debate does not allow name calling like being childish and calling someone a troll
2) Prove there are 200 data points or shut your face  - Good Debates use the data available
3) It does not matter how much BFL has shipped, it matters how fast. If Apple gets orders for 7 million Ipads and only delivers 800,000 in a year that matters, especially to the 6,200,000 that didn't get theirs.
4) You sir couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag. You lack contrary data, you like to call names, and act like a child.
5) We laugh at you, back under the bridge with you.

Yet again, you refuse to read and simply act the king of trolls and nitpick things you do not understand to death.

While there are some bad data points in the matrix, the overall premise still holds true.  You seem to expect me to go through and vet 4951 entries to determine if every single one of the is correct?  Impossible.  I'd have to have BFL's order book in hand to do such a thing.  We are still talking about an ESTIMATE.  You are talking absolute accuracy.  The two do not mesh.

Your fallacious assertation that 100070471 is 100 million orders highlights your ignorance.  That is only order number 70471.  While the lower numbered orders were ONLY the order number, somewhere around mid February it appears the 1000 prefix was added.  It really is too bad you cannot understand the simple logic behind that.  Some people seeing the lower numbers did not include the 1000 and others faithfully typed in the full order number.

Now, HOW you can say 2 out of 3 DEVICES ordered might be a Jalapeno, I really do not understand.  There are 7668 devices for 4951 orders!!!!  By using the average as I stated, that was using as given that each Jalapeno order was for 1 unit.  Who cares if 64 were ordered on 1 actual order?  if 2 out of every 3 orders contained a Jalapeno, the overall total would equal virtually the same thing!  WE ARE STILL ESTIMATING HERE!

What does it matter that I am using 1 order = 1 unit if the overall figures total the same in the end?  Why is simplification of the process so bad a thing to do?  Your need to pick things apart blinds you to the whole picture being displayed.  Who cares if you can stand 1 inch from a computer generated picture and see black dots and red dots and yellow dots?  What matters is when you step back and take it in as a whole it becomes a picture.

Go ahead, troll and nitpick some more. I know you will.

Reminder:
BFL started shipping on April 1st 2013 according to normal folk, but according to Luke Jr. they started shipping on March 31st 2013.
(Counter-to-counter courier services provided by Josh Express®)

So it has actually been 4+ months.

BCP19

Go learn more about yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy

If you had an IQ of 190 and EQ of 10, you would have known this before having started.

Nope. 2 out of 3 devices ordered might be a Jalapeno. But 2 out of 3 orders do not consist of orders of Jalapenos. You are mixing devices in absolute numbers with orders of devices (which can consist of multiple devices in multiple families). Also, order number 12000 does not equate to 12,000 orders. If that were true, then it would mean because there is an order number 100070471 in that data set that there are 100,070,471 orders from BFL. I think we can safely rule that out.

Actually, that is not how statistics works. Before you use a data set you need to assess it's quality. Determine how many entries are duplicates like these:
4843   2013/07/04   100070420   No   0   1   0   0      Algorn
4844   2013/07/04   100070420   No   0   1   0   0      Algorn
4845   2013/07/04   100070420   No   0   1   0   0      Algorn
Determine how many are obviously false like this one:
4860   2013/07/10   234234   No   1   2   3   4      asdf

Worse, you have based your entire assessment on 1 order number = 1 order. A cursory examination of the data will reveal this to be totally false (as would an understanding of databases and online order systems).

It is true, I cannot understand how someone who claims to attended MIT have such a bad aptitude at math and statistics.

too bad my IQ isnt higher... maybe i wouldnt have wasted 10 minutes reading this this crappy thread...

Your points are good and solid.  I think you would be a good debate partner.

Have you never done anything with probability and statistics?  if you pulll X samples out of a batch of Y and use the information from them, you can garner a working data point to extrapolate what the total would hold.

We have 4951 orders and 3575 Jalapenos, yes.  As you point out, this is 72%, but using 2 of 3 is a lot easier than using 18 of 25 to the average person.  Now IF on AVERAGE 2 of every 3 orders is a Jalapeno, and you are 12,300 order numbers into the book, that means out of 12,300 that you should have ~8,200 Jalapenos.  This is how statistics work.  On that day there had been ~6400 order numbers of LS.  1/4 of this is ~1600LS.  900 singles order numbers gives us 500 singles and 2100 mini order numbers gave us 77.7.  8,200*5 = 41TH.  6400*30 = 19.2 TH  500 * 60 = 30TH and 77* 500 = 38.5TH.  41+19.2+30+38.5 = 128.7.  Obviously I am misremembering where the numbers were on that day, as I had a total at 165TH.

Sneer all you want, I care not, just because you cannot understand, you belittle and demean.  Go pat yourself on the back and try not to hurt yourself.

1) Ok but they are still way behind and as long as you are entitled to an opinion we are entitled to one too so let us think whatever we want and we will let you think whatever you want.
2) You have too much spare time.
3) You have too much spare time and we are free to dislike you for whatever reason we want. Your reasons towards k9 make me feel that you really lack the IQ you said you have.
4) You have too much spare time.
5) Someone with IQ 148 isn't looking for a good debate on an internet forum especially this one with those people.