Tips for local transactions - page 31.

Sevvero

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Quote from: Stephen Gornick on July 18, 2013, 08:07:05 PM

Just a reminder on the importance of checking for counterfeits. A cashier at the convenience store knows what to look for and is vigilant with every bill. Bitcoin traders don't generally have those skills and aren't disciplined enough to consider the possibility that the cash they are receiving could include fake bills being passed to them (i.e., we are green and thus make good targets for counterfeitters).

From another thread:

Quote from: tolan77 on July 15, 2013, 09:07:12 PM

Afterwards we concluded the trade and I went on my way. However shortly thereafter I noticed 2 of the bills were fake! Now since I didn't check during the transaction I can't prove whether or not the buyer was complicit and had any knowledge of these fake bills but I have learned my lesson and will be investigating bills more closely. They arn't too shabby I definitely could pass them off if I wanted to (though I won't cause I don't wanna screw someone else over) but a simple 30 second investigation would've aroused my suspicions as they both have the same serial and feel slightly different.
DON't MAKE THE MISTAKE I DID CHECK THE BILLS BEFORE RELEASING ESCROW.

There are some tips on detecting counterfeits here:

Counterfeit Bills A Risk For Local Bitcoin Trading
- http://bitcoinmoney.com/post/36244271879

These were my first thoughts. The fear of trading bitcoins in real life, because why would anyone buy unless they really can't use the internet or have some other motive. Counterfeit cash sounds like it could work as an effective scam.

FTWbitcoinFTW

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Yep but nothing related with the trade.
Just bad timing/place

If we have to notice every bad things who happend to bitcoiner....

Stephen Gornick

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Certain times of the day carry a higher risk of being robbed or mugged than others.

Quote

"Most of the crimes take place between 6p.m and 3a.m."
...
"A walk along Nairobi streets confirms that mobile money shops operators are not taking any chances with security. Most of them have fortified their shops with metal bars and heavy glass the way commercial banks do."

- http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/smartcompany/Mobile-money-agents-fortify-shops/-/1226/1755372/-/viwl6j/-/index.html

Here's a report by someone claiming to have gotten knocked down and robbed while enroute to do a trade:
- http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qb0yz

rampalija

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Nice detalied explanation, after i read this i cant make mistake

TippingPoint

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Eight Ways to Spot Counterfeit Money

Most of the counterfeit notes that change hands are computer-generated, which are easily distinguishable from real bills.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/eight-ways-to-spot-counterfeit-money-181716971.html

Stephen Gornick

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Getting stuck with counterfeit money is a real (and growing) risk:

Quote

Buyer passed me 25 x fake $20 bills at http://localbitcoins.com , defrauded me for $500. Seller beware too, quality counterfeit $20s traded

- http://twitter.com/aantonop/status/384556888974557184

TippingPoint

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Yes. Both parties must clearly demonstrate that they have all the cash or Bitcoins in their possession at the start. If it is a first transaction between the two parties, the transaction can be done incrementally, to lessen the risk to both parties. For example, if the planned transaction is for 10 Bitcoins, agree to transfer $100 (or some other fraction of the total amount) along with an exchange of the equivalent BTC, and repeat. It is easier to send fractional BTCs to match an equivalent fiat, than it is to create exact change to match a specified amount of BTC. Agree on the number of confirmations necessary before proceeding.

If there is ever any hint of deception, excuses, or "change of plans"; leave immediately. Don't debate or argue.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Show/count money, put money under notebook, receive BTC with at least 1 confirmation, let him pick up notebook, then money underneath, and leave.

karmazynt

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Very good topic, but there is one question. For example I want to buy x BTC worth y $, the guy sits next me with notebook and what now? Should he transfer money firstly or I should give him money? In both cases someone can cheat other person.

Love btc

newbie

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A new trading platform：https：//www.btc100.org

b!z

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Quote from: TippingPoint on August 18, 2013, 12:02:06 AM

Quote from: bezzeb on June 08, 2013, 12:57:47 PM

None of the dudes I've met are involved in drugs or any shady stuff, and I tell them all to not bother me if that's their angle. They're just software developers, ex liberty reserve customers or what not, and almost always a bit on the geeky side. (lol)

Same as my experiences. Very tech-smart people. Very business-smart people.

And they could be smart enough to fool you, so always exercise caution.

TippingPoint

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Quote from: bezzeb on June 08, 2013, 12:57:47 PM

None of the dudes I've met are involved in drugs or any shady stuff, and I tell them all to not bother me if that's their angle. They're just software developers, ex liberty reserve customers or what not, and almost always a bit on the geeky side. (lol)

Same as my experiences. Very tech-smart people. Very business-smart people.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

You don't have to use localbitcoins escrow service either. Just do a contact through the site, and the BTC exchange off it.

ngenko

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Quote from: TheButterZone on July 24, 2013, 03:57:10 PM

http://btcnearme.com/

right, but not very user friendly Sad

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

http://btcnearme.com/

ngenko

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Thanks for the tips, this is indeed very important to choose a safe place to trade btc against cash.

I am wondering if there is any other places than localbitcoin to meet exchangers. I have the feeling to be stolen each time I use their service. High exchange fees (1%) and the fact that they reserve some additional money for network fees.

Stephen Gornick

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Just a reminder on the importance of checking for counterfeits. A cashier at the convenience store knows what to look for and is vigilant with every bill. Bitcoin traders don't generally have those skills and aren't disciplined enough to consider the possibility that the cash they are receiving could include fake bills being passed to them (i.e., we are green and thus make good targets for counterfeitters).

From another thread:

Quote from: tolan77 on July 15, 2013, 09:07:12 PM

Afterwards we concluded the trade and I went on my way. However shortly thereafter I noticed 2 of the bills were fake! Now since I didn't check during the transaction I can't prove whether or not the buyer was complicit and had any knowledge of these fake bills but I have learned my lesson and will be investigating bills more closely. They arn't too shabby I definitely could pass them off if I wanted to (though I won't cause I don't wanna screw someone else over) but a simple 30 second investigation would've aroused my suspicions as they both have the same serial and feel slightly different.
DON't MAKE THE MISTAKE I DID CHECK THE BILLS BEFORE RELEASING ESCROW.

There are some tips on detecting counterfeits here:

Counterfeit Bills A Risk For Local Bitcoin Trading
- http://bitcoinmoney.com/post/36244271879

mateo

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Or: bring a gun if you're afraid of getting mugged.

bezzeb

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Quote from: Stephen Gornick on June 27, 2013, 10:51:41 PM

Just a heads-up, ... it might be getting easier for a scammer to succeed at double spending on 0/unconfirmed. Here's an example:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/will-the-new-dust-rule-082-make-it-trivial-to-double-spend-0-conf-196990

So those buying bitcoins with cash or other non-reversible payment method from an untrusted party might want to consider some escrow method (e.g., LocalBitcoins "transactions"), or a more instant-transfer method (e.g., account-to-account transfer, like on Camp BX, or maybe via Ripple gateway, etc.), or waiting on getting a confirmation or two before completing the trade by handing over the cash.

An attack such as what is described in your linked post would be essentially impossible for all but a few uber-leet dudes in the world to even attempt IMHO, and it isn't 'new', it's the same vuln, and the existing safeguards resist the effort which succeeds at making such attacks cost more than they're generally worth. The people I meet with aren't hackers and the amounts I trade are too small for anyone to care about.

That said, I always make my face to face trades over a beer or coffee and explain before the meet that fiat cash moves only after 1 conf. Not always practical for everyone, but i wont trade with a stranger otherwise.
But the beer / coffee is mostly social as I find it fun to meet strangers and chat for as long as one drink takes.

Be smart and keep your eyes open. Take responsibility for your own safety.

Stephen Gornick

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Just a heads-up, ... it might be getting easier for a scammer to succeed at double spending on 0/unconfirmed. Here's an example:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/will-the-new-dust-rule-082-make-it-trivial-to-double-spend-0-conf-196990

So those buying bitcoins with cash or other non-reversible payment method from an untrusted party might want to consider some escrow method (e.g., LocalBitcoins "transactions"), or a more instant-transfer method (e.g., account-to-account transfer, like on Camp BX, or maybe via Ripple gateway, etc.), or waiting on getting a confirmation or two before completing the trade by handing over the cash.

Topic: Tips for local transactions - page 31. (Read 732766 times)