Topic: [TOP-200] The most generous users giving merits - page 3. (Read 38403 times)

Hahahahaha

Good one Nutildah  (NOT!).

I was about to send you an smerit for your post because I agreed with the vast majority of what you were saying, until you got to the end part...


But, whatever, I am glad that you are having such a good time with your fantasy-landia creation of imposing your judgements upon the merit sending discretion and/or due diligence of other forum members (poor widdo urs truly    ) to create your own variation of good versus evil with ur lil selfie on the good side of matters..

and poor widdo me happening to happen to come out as the bad guy in your smarter than everyone else version of how the ways the forum world merit system motives/incentives work.

Uhhhh I got a post.





Well obviously there's more to it than that, and I'll explain what it is.


I think a lot of people come here because they heard that they can make money by being lazy, so they're not of the mindset to "work hard" in the first place. But the funny thing is its not even supposed to be work. You're supposed to be here because you like socially interacting with like-minded people and conversing about Bitcoin and related topics. If you do that, then its not work at all. And (dare I say) the wiser forum members recognize this and reward such posters with merits (who often don't need even need them), just as a symbolic gesture of appreciation (like a Facebook 'Like').

If you come here with the job mindset, and think part of the "job" is trying to get merits, your posts will reflect that, and I'm not gonna give you any if I detect that behavior. Because its not genuine. Its fake and I resent people who try to pass it off as genuine.

You can copy/paste twitter links in the WO thread and you might get some merits from JJG but I will also check your account for banned or negged alts (and maybe even plagiarism or AI). Why? Because

1) they often cheat and take shortcuts because they are indeed lazy, and

2) its fun for me, just like its fun for JJG to rank up spammers.

That's the thing I'm not happy about, how would someone depends on AI to do everything even what you can craft out from your head too, not cool. Is it that we humans are becoming lazy or we don't value what we have inside of us? The thing is that majority of the newly registered members (even some SNR members too etc) are crazily desperate for nothing, all I know is that you have to start a foundation before you start building a house, if it's merit it will and must come with your efforts, some forget that they're being watched how serious they are.



You have to be original and real, the merit we're talking about is really important because without it you can't move to the next rank, but all still boils down to one thing, hard work, if not you not getting it and you'd be stock at a place (I mean at one rank) . Well I agree with you when you say if you think less about having merit and do your thing it will come even more than you expected, but don't forget we're all humans, we're always desperate when things ain't working as expected.

You just need to be original in your post and don't treat merits as something special given to only few members as whenever you contribute something useful you will receive them so for some it may take time but others can get it fast but I won't say newbies struggle for merits but they are not interested in learning aspects first of all which makes smerit incoming easy for you.

I think if someone isn't able to write something on his own and using AI tools for help and then except to get merits from it then it should not be appreciated ar all.We have long debates about how AI posts can be treated under plagiarism also so be original in your posts.

unfortunately the hard work of some new members or other members did it wrong. post with some long paragraphs using AI. you can see it on the reputation board. undeniably, it was a new members hard work to gain Merit.
AI helps someone write, but with good ideas and good sentences arranged makes us have a discussion with robots. not the result of creative thoughts and ideas from people.

Merits is indeed very hard to earn, if I should use those words VERY HARD. Lack of effort can never generate even half a merit for anyone so the effort you put to your post get it done. And some members think that whenever you make a very long post that it makes someone to give them at least a merit (so I thought when I started) but if it's not informative it can't move anybody to drop any sMerit and I noticed that so many users don't like reading post with thousands of words like you made mentioned above, but you can't blame those new members who do such, they're all struggling and fighting to get those sMerits coming in.

You make several good points in your post TSC.. and in regards to this last point, I would elaborate that there are a lot of members who do not necessarily write well, and I am not even saying that my writing style is the greatest because I know that sometimes I ramble and repeat myself a bit, but there comes some luxury when any of us have been around for a while that sometimes we will get merits for mediocre posts because members feel that they know us from our other posts. 

Accordingly, I would say that if you are a newer member, then you likely have to try to spend time to write higher quality posts in order that members will want to read your posts and thereby end up getting to know you whether they like what you say or not.  I don't even necessarily need to agree with posts that are fairly well presented or they have some good points that are either well-expressed or seeming to come from an experiential or otherwise informed perspective.  Of course, sometimes smerits will get sent merely because there is some kind of humor in the post, but if you are not somehow weaving some seriousness in with your humor, you might not have as much luck getting merits because non-contextual humor may well be interpreted as trolling by quite a few members (including members who have smerits at their disposal to be able to send in the event that they come across what they believe to be a "merit-worthy" post.

So in regards to writing quality, it seems to me that writing quality can be improved, and it will help to have some decent writing skills to get your point across, but having good writing skills is not necessarily a condition precedent to receive smerits... - even though surely it can help to either have decent writing skills or just to recognize that if your writing skills are not very good, then to go over your post several times in order to help you to improve your writing skills.. and especially helpful while you are a new member, and after members get to know you, then you can likely be more lackadaisical in your writing/presentation skills - but having had gone through a period of meticulousness (in posting) will likely end up improving your writing skills in such a way that you end up expressing yourself better without even having to try as hard as you had to try when you were in the process of improving such writing/presentation skills..

Oh, and by the way, sometimes a decent number of non-native English speakers/writers wrongly believe that they have to write/speak formally in order to be understood or even to use proper words, which surely is not the case; however, in the beginning it probably is better to learn and present with the more formal versions of writing so that you know the difference between formal presentations and informal presentations... so if you are going informal, then you know that you are doing it.. rather than not really knowing what the fuck you are doing and just spouting out a bunch of informal nonsense that might "kind of be understood," yet most of the time, members are not going to want to try to figure out what kind of puzzle that you had presented. 

Maybe another point might be that part of the reason that any of us might give any shits about our audience could be either reputation and/or wanting to get recognition and responses, such as receiving merits or just substantive comments/help to our concerns.  At the same time, it is not exactly necessary that anyone gives many shits about his/her reputation - but at the same time, it is not as likely to receive smerits if other members cannot really relate to you or consider you as a disingenuine poster... In other words, you are not really prejudiced greatly from not receiving smerits if you are largely just wanting to read forum threads, but if you want to have some kind of "meaningful" interactive participation with other members, and of course, some newbies want to be able to "earn" money on the forum, then it is more likely that you are going to want to earn merits in order to show contribution which will increase likelihoods that you might be accepted into a signature campaign or some other kind of a project or even receiving a loan (if there are members who are loaning to lower ranking members?)

Apart from the good explanation that The Skeptical Chemist has given you, I would add that you do not seem to take into account that whoever created the system was not thinking of a socialist system of distribution of merits, which is what you are proposing, where you have to give them more merits to those who have fewer merits (lower-ranked members) simply because they have fewer. If he had wanted that, he would have stuck with the old system, where people ranked up by time and activity in the forum, regardless of the quality or garbage of the content they wrote.

That being said, there are several merit source that help lower-ranking members rank up when they need to. So the ones who make a decent contribution to the forum, even if they aren't some of the best posters, have plenty of opportunities and end up moving up the ranks.

Not for nothing, but you're on my ignore list.  I don't know when I put you on it, but I don't ignore users for any reason other than that their posts are crap.  You might have improved since I did it, so I'll take a look.

What you suggested above has been tried a number of times since the merit system kicked off in 2018 you know.  The reason those merit giveaway threads or related ones burned out is because they quickly became overrun with members wanting their shitposts merited.  People desperate for merits will try their luck any time it looks like an opportunity to get them is available, and you wouldn't believe how many PMs I've gotten from shitposters who want their post history reviewed for merits.  I've had to tell so many of them no that these days if their posts are bad enough, I'll just block their PMs.

Merits might be hard to earn, but if you're not putting any effort into your posts; if you can't write well; and if you're posting in threads with dozens, hundreds, or over a thousand pages long then you shouldn't expect anyone to give you their sMerits.  And a lot of times it's the lower-ranked members who are doing all of those things.

I've seen several posts by legendary members and heroes. Some are really good and many are no different from us new members. The logic goes like that, higher ranking members are more likely to make good posts than lower ranking posts. So there really has to be a difference in receiving the merit, if it's the same it's not even logical.

Like the post you made. Too good with interesting word emphasis, especially in bold. Of course I'd give a merit, but I have limited stock and you don't need it, so I better save it. But what you wrote proves that high level is better (though not all).

If we're talking about post quality and the fact that some of us feel like lower-ranked members that post quality replies are getting ignored or neglected, I think that it's high time that we do the thing again where veteran forum users or just forum users with a good judgment recommend posts that are neglected or are in-between other replies that are of quality and share it to other users for them to check out so they can judge for themselves if it's merit worthy, I've seen a thread like that before here although I don't feel it's presence at all, maybe incentivizing those who recommend those posts might work but who knows, I'm probably talking bull here.

I get where you're coming from, and it's good that you're advocating for lower-ranked members to receive more merits,

BUT

Higher-ranked members typically make more interesting and more informative posts--which, if they had yet to reach said ranks when the merit system was created, is why they achieved Hero/Legendary in the first place.  So you'd kind of expect the most merits to be sent to them, right?  Seems logical to me.

BUT

Then there's the question as to whether it's worth it to merit posts made by Legendary members.  I've always held the position that sMerits should be sent mostly to members under Legendary, since the merit system has the dual purpose of being the equivalent of a "like" but also the mechanism by which members rank up.  

ALSO

If lower-ranked members really deserved merits, they'd probably get them.  And if they get them, they're no longer going to be amongst the lower ranks given time and activity.  I don't seriously think there's favoritism going on.  Think about it: there are a LOT of members with sMerits to give.  There would have to be a massive number of them having a bias toward Hero/Legendary members--and what would be their motivation?

THERERFORE

Merits seem to be acting as a yardstick for post quality, and even though it seems like those poor lower-ranked members are being ignored/neglected/whatever, I think what we're seeing is just a brutally honest system at work.  The merit system is akin to natural selection in nature where the weak posters get stuck at Jr. Member, good ones make it further, and really good ones get to Legendary.  Them's my thoughts, anyway.

I guess you didn't get the gist right, and by the way, I was just saying what I noticed by the regular observation of the stats posted by @Coin-1, I never said quid pro quo is going on, and neither did I say merits couldn't be given to whosoever the sources choose. All I was pointing out is that they should also pay attention to the lower ranks or perhaps randomise it among ranks so that the difference would not be too much as it is now.

You and a few others distribute it so effectively that it can't result in the huge difference we are seeing now, unfortunately, the larger part doesn't.


Take the last update above as a rough reference, 11809 merits were received by the population of 3009 legendaries, while the combination of Full+Senior+Hero members received just a total of 8037 merits despite making a whooping 31,715 in population. That number is more than x10 of the former's population, yet they receive even fewer merits.

I still urge our senior friends to consider this.

Sending merits is voluntary.  Not a duty.


Even though I understand your point, at least in regards to Theymos could assign someone else to perform merit source duties and remove merit source status (or reduce merit source monthly allotment) from merit source members who are not sending source merits.


Yes.  The bias is that merit sources can send merits to whoever they like, as long as they are not currying favors.. so if you believe that the evidence supports that some members are currying favors, then report that (those) members.. .. there is a pretty large latitude and discretion for merit source member, yet you seem to suggest that there is some kind of obligation for them to have some kind of an acceptable objective standard(s), which is not the case in the current way that theymos has assigned merit sources, at least to my knowledge of the situation is that they can give merits to whoever the fuck they want and under whatever standard so long as their is no quid pro quo going on... I think theymos used the expression that merit sources are not allowed to "sell" their merits and you can figure out what "don't sell" means, but it surely does not rise to the level of creating other kinds of fairness and/or objectivity obligations upon merit source members.

I'm curious about the merit data sent and received by each member here. So I started learning how to use ddmrddmr tool

I took data for June 2023 starting from June 01 at 12:00 AM - June 30 at 11:59:59 PM



It seems that the data I took is very different, I don't know why it's different

I guess calendar months are considered.
So, according to his own Bitcointalk Merit Dashboard @ddmrddmr sent a total of 390 merits having received  39 merits. This should translate in a generosity index of 371.

I was also surprised to see him at 54^th position while he sends them at fast pace and as per
records also he has send 408 merits in past 30 days while at this time if we take 14 days into consideration he has send 42 merits so it makes 366 till 14 june only not counted before that.So surely he has send more merits but don't know how the charts are prepared.
42

Something I didn't expect:


For sure he sent way more merits in June:


In the merits spree only, @ddmrddmr sent 347 merits.
You accounted only for the first merits spree, apparently, and not for the second one.
Any particular reason why you left those out?

Good one again, thanks for this and happy to see my name once again here. This simplicity helps to quickly detect some hidden facts and names that are and aren't performing their duties.

These statistics have also revealed my suspicion of an imbalanced proportion of the number/percentage of merit earned to the number/percentage of ranks. This is inversely propositional and the extent is too much. This suggests bias in meriting as far as I'm concerned.

I think that's pretty normal. From what I've seen, the number of merits sent has consistently stayed above 20k since June 2021, typically ranging from 23k to 28k. So I'm not exactly sure where Coin-1 got the figure of 19k from. Although, it's possible that I overlooked some monthly stats during my quick review.