Top Saudi Cleric: The Sun Revolves Around The Earth…

Wilikon

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Quote from: Stinky_Pete on April 01, 2014, 06:06:06 PM

There seems to be at least one logical flaw and one misunderstanding in the OP.

As a scientist I can accept the statement "And the sun runs towards its stopping point" since the sun is moving through space relative to the galactic centre, which is also moving relative to other galaxies. More figuratively, the sun is also 'running down' since it is consuming its own fuel and will one day stop shining. Neither interpretation has any relevance to the question of the earth going around the sun, or the sun going around the earth.

The cleric seems to think that modern science says the sun stays still. It doesn't say that.

But I'm not sure about the four elephants and the turtle.

"Allah says in a Koranic verse: “And the sun runs towards its stopping point. That is the determination of the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing.”

Are you saying the OP is Allah AND it may have a logical flaw? Please World direct all your Fatwa toward Mr stinky Grin

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on April 02, 2014, 01:03:30 PM

The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization whose aim to further the idea that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956[1] and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after Johnson’s death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.[2]

The ideas argued by the society are widely viewed by accomplished scientists as pseudoscientific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

Silly people.
Nothing "revolves" around anything. It's all flat. Grin

I guess we can extend this question is the Universe Flat or is the Universe Circular

Also not quite sure but are Galaxys Flat or Circular or a bunch of weird shapes ?

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization whose aim to further the idea that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956[1] and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after Johnson’s death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.[2]

The ideas argued by the society are widely viewed by accomplished scientists as pseudoscientific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

Silly people.
Nothing "revolves" around anything. It's all flat. Grin

1369

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Space is easier to move than objects, the universe revolves around itself, thus movement is relative to your point of reality

Khadaji

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Quote from: Khadaji on April 02, 2014, 09:12:21 AM

Only a god that was material would be accepted by scientists, as they reject as a fundamental fact that there is anything beyond matter & energy.

Well, no. Scientists currently believe, based on evidence, that the universe is comprised only of matter/energy (same thing), spacetime, fundamental forces, etc.

Well yes. Materialism is a given in modern science.

It's not a belief based on evidence, it's a fundamental axiom of the system of science. Feel free to research it...

Quote from: ?? on ??

But this is the thing about science - if you present evidence that the universe extends beyond the current model, scientists will change their minds. Just like they did when Einstein extended the classical model of relativity.

If anything non-material is rejected a priori, then nothing will ever be 'discovered' or theorized that's non-material.

RodeoX

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Khadaji on April 02, 2014, 09:12:21 AM

Only a god that was material would be accepted by scientists, as they reject as a fundamental fact that there is anything beyond matter & energy.

Well, no. Scientists currently believe, based on evidence, that the universe is comprised only of matter/energy (same thing), spacetime, fundamental forces, etc.

But this is the thing about science - if you present evidence that the universe extends beyond the current model, scientists will change their minds. Just like they did when Einstein extended the classical model of relativity.

Amen.
That is the part so many people miss. If someone provided evidence that the Earth was in the center of the universe then it would be studied and tested to see if additional facts contradict or support the original findings. Those who follow the religious path start with an assumption and try to make their findings fit. That is not how science works, that is called superstition.
The problem with this approach is that one must be willfully ignorant of simple, provable facts. For example if you want to believe that Noah and the ark was an actual event. You must ignore the fact that the story is really a copy of an ancient Sumerian story. You must also throw out what is known about geology, physics, biology, history, etc. You must get yourself into a superstitious child-like state of mind. The moment you apply logic the whole thing starts to unravel.

Khadaji

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Quote from: Lethn on April 01, 2014, 05:38:08 PM

Quote from: zolace on April 01, 2014, 03:23:33 PM

Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?

This is precisely what pisses me off about religious people, if there was a god, scientists would accept it,

Only a god that was material would be accepted by scientists, as they reject as a fundamental fact that there is anything beyond matter & energy.

But a god that existed only materially wouldn't be a god.

Of course, this also has the hidden assumption that scientists don't believe in God. Historically speaking, far more scientists have been religious than have been atheist. But even in modern times, you cannot make the flat assertion that scientists as a rule are atheist.

According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not. - LA Times.

You can argue the exact percentage, different polls have different numbers, but it's always going to be a healthy number.

Quote from: Lethn on April 01, 2014, 05:38:08 PM

but religious people would only accept it as long as it fits 'their' version, what happens if it turns out there are millions of gods that are nothing like what they believe in but they exist? They'd be pretty fucked then with their logic but it seems that scientists are discovering how life clicks step by step, finding out if there's an afterlife is the only real problem because you have to physically die in order to find out about it.

I can respect people for wanting to believe in things, but I can't respect people who deny reality and expect me to respect that.

protokol

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Quote from: pedrog on March 21, 2014, 10:55:21 AM

Quote from: BitOnyx on March 21, 2014, 09:51:30 AM

In US there is big organisation that believe |Earth is flat. I don't think we should care about this kind of people.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

Oh my god, thanks for that, you made my day Shocked

I'm still not quite sure that that whole forum isn't an Onion-style hoax though bahahaa!

GreekBitcoin

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so many retards in here assuming that just because a "Top Saudi Cleric" and a USA backed King are believing and spreading medieval shit everyone else there must also believe in that shit too...

thaaanos

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funny thing is since there are no fixed point in the universe, and everything is relative,
the sun revolves around the earth AND the earth revolves around the sun, it's only a matter of perception and choice of where to claim a center.
Science claims the center is where it simplifies the equations
Religion claims the center is where it maximizes belief.
Both are right, and wrong.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: FalconFly on April 02, 2014, 06:07:06 AM

It appears the Saudi Dictator just took it to a whole new level :

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-01/saudi-arabia-passes-new-law-declares-atheists-terrorists

A separate thread has been already started:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/saudi-arabia-to-classify-atheists-as-terrorists-552992

FalconFly

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It appears the Saudi Dictator just took it to a whole new level :

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-01/saudi-arabia-passes-new-law-declares-atheists-terrorists

Stinky_Pete

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There seems to be at least one logical flaw and one misunderstanding in the OP.

As a scientist I can accept the statement "And the sun runs towards its stopping point" since the sun is moving through space relative to the galactic centre, which is also moving relative to other galaxies. More figuratively, the sun is also 'running down' since it is consuming its own fuel and will one day stop shining. Neither interpretation has any relevance to the question of the earth going around the sun, or the sun going around the earth.

The cleric seems to think that modern science says the sun stays still. It doesn't say that.

But I'm not sure about the four elephants and the turtle.

Lethn

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Quote from: zolace on April 01, 2014, 03:23:33 PM

Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?

This is precisely what pisses me off about religious people, if there was a god, scientists would accept it, but religious people would only accept it as long as it fits 'their' version, what happens if it turns out there are millions of gods that are nothing like what they believe in but they exist? They'd be pretty fucked then with their logic but it seems that scientists are discovering how life clicks step by step, finding out if there's an afterlife is the only real problem because you have to physically die in order to find out about it.

I can respect people for wanting to believe in things, but I can't respect people who deny reality and expect me to respect that.

Jigme

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still living in the past. Guys like these are the root cause of all the worlds ill Undecided

zolace

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Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?

pioter

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on March 24, 2014, 11:42:26 PM

Quote from: pioter on March 24, 2014, 11:19:37 AM

the funy thing is that they were relly inteligent few hundred years ago ...

I don't think so. Arabs acted as the intermediaries between the Orient and the West. They stole the knowledge from both the sides.

they were smart enought to stole it, today they would burn it all Roll Eyes

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on March 24, 2014, 11:42:26 PM

Quote from: pioter on March 24, 2014, 11:19:37 AM

the funy thing is that they were relly inteligent few hundred years ago ...

I don't think so. Arabs acted as the intermediaries between the Orient and the West. They stole the knowledge from both the sides.

True but at least they saved astronomy after the Dark Ages appeared in Europe and all the information was lost in that part of the world philosophy etc and math (Like it or Leave it Wink

)
Now you know who to thank for your textbook lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_transmission_of_the_Classics_to_the_West

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: pioter on March 24, 2014, 11:19:37 AM

the funy thing is that they were relly inteligent few hundred years ago ...

I don't think so. Arabs acted as the intermediaries between the Orient and the West. They stole the knowledge from both the sides.

FalconFly

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Sentinel

Damn....

Imagine the amount of gravity we'd have to endure if the Earth was to be the center of the solar system ??! We'd be quite... flattened...

Space exploration wouldn't require the 11.2km/sec escape velocity but the full whopping 617.3km/sec o.0
Space agencies wouldn't be too happy about that. 1.38 Million miles/hour isn't an easy feat to achieve.

Given that gravity, we'd probably be super-tough, flat and very small insectoids. A human would be crushed to death under the gravitational forces.

Or even worse, imagine you'd be a drughead like dank, believing the whole universe was revolving around you (quite an ego)... Definitely certain one couldn't handle that load of gravity Grin

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