Topic: Trade vs. HODL - avoid traps - page 3. (Read 1897 times)

What you have explained is quite accurate where the sustainability of the investment will run according to the income we get in a month. Apart from that, I think that if they don't have a fixed monthly income, it will be difficult to invest in the long term because if they need money for their living needs. They will have to sell their BTC holdings, which will not be in accordance with the initial plans they have made.

Yes, buy and hold are the first words that come to someone's mind, but if it is not accompanied by strong belief and supported by patience then they will not be able to do it. People who have been successful in long-term investments certainly have a strong enough mentality to deal with all the obstacles that occur in their investment planning.

If you are holding BTC and then unemployed because you are not working and not earning a steady income, why invest? In the end, you will know that the investment will be hampered due to the pressure of living needs because you are not working or let alone preparing an emergency fund, we must plan that investment is not just a lust just because of profit but think about other factors, whether from monthly income can cover a month, whether after that there is money left over, if there is then and can invest in this way. Not putting all the money in bitcoin while other needs are ignored, it is clear that this plan will not be in line.

Trading is full of risks compared to holding that there is no big risk, trading requires a lot of skills you need everything you need - analysis - charts, market sentiment - news - fundamentals - emotions - risk management - mind.

I'm not good at trading so it's better to be a BTC holder just - hold - be patient - ignore the market if your investment is still early.

Having another source of income is important then you can increase your investment into BTC, while the need then it should be fulfilled from your monthly income from real work as usual then this will be more stable than just relying on arrivals alone.

You seem to be mixing up your concepts, GbitG.

sure there is short term trading and there is even trading upon BIGGER swings, but it is not necessarily true that the earlier adopters of bitcoin took out much of any of their profits at various ATHs along the way, and they reason that they did not necessarily take out all of their bitcoin varies from case to case including that it has likely even been more profitable to ONLY take out small amounts of bitcoin along the way, rather than getting in and out of bitcoin or even valuing your wealth in something other than bitcoin which is part of the presumption that you believe that you can predict an ATH to be some kind of permanent place in which a bitcoin holder should get out of bitcoin.  There were ATHs at $32, $263, $1,163, $19,666 and $69,000, and ONLY the BTC HODLer selling all of his/her BTC at the latest ATH would be in a better place in terms of dollars at this point, and surely getting in and out is likely not even a good mindset.

Let's say make a couple of examples of hypothetical long time HODLers that have been in bitcoin for at least 1.5 cycles (6 years) and the other 2.5 cycles (10 years).

The first hypothetical one (who got in 6 years ago in 2017-ish) might have an average cost per BTC around $10k and accumulated 5 BTC, and surely the dollar value of his/her BTC would have been up and down during the last volatility up to $69k and then back down to $15,479 and then back up to our current prices, but s/he might also be much better off to continue to hold his/her BTC and accumulate BTC throughout the past few years rather than trying to figure out when to sell the BTC and when to get back in.

The same is true for the second hypothetical one (who got in 10 years ago in 2013-ish) who has a $1k average per BTC and sure maybe s/he has accumulated more than 50 BTC through the years, but I doubt that we can really proclaim that s/he would have had been better off financially and/or psychologically to try to figure out when was the top and when to buy back rather than just continuing to stack sats if s/he remains uncertain about whether 50 BTC is enough for his/her own personal financial situation.

And of course, there are a lot of variations of these hypothetical longer term bitcoiners that could be imagined including that it is much easier to try to proclaim that any of the longer term bitcoiners would have had been better off to try to trade the BIG swings of BTC prices rather than the more practical approach of largely riding out the waves, continuing to try to accumulate more BTC along the way with a bit of persistence until s/he reaches a quantity of BTC that s/he believes to be enough or to be more than enough in order that some of the extra BTC might be shaved off at various points along the way because such person has accumulated more than enough BTC.

Of course, I agree with your opinion that holding Bitcoin for the long term is easier than short-term trading if you have a complete means of survival and a source of income. It means that you should have spears of money for holding, which cannot endanger your life by losing it.

If this case is seen from the perspective of efforts, although both of them are profitable, short-term trading requires continuous monitoring, technical + fundamental analysis, and high risk tolerance measures. While others have to put less in the holding. Apart from this, my wife's opinion is also in favour of long-term holding, and the reason for this is that if you look at the people who are connected to cryptocurrency in the whole world, the majority of them are investing in Bitcoin or holding long-term. So this is the reason why holding in Bitcoin is a perfect thing that does not require much effort or awareness as required for trading.

And what's more, even a common man can earn a profit from it if he knows a little bit about Bitcoin. And the reason for this is that the people who invested in Bitcoin in the early days, without any hesitation, took out their good profits in the ATH of Bitcoin. Therefore, the profit from the holding can be easily earned if the entry is made in the perfect time period.

In trading, there is not only profit but also loss.It can be seen that many people take trades without understanding and then they lose.There is a lot of risk involved in trading and everyone should trade with this in mind.Emotion and patience are most important in trading.You cannot succeed in trading if you do not have passion or patience.Trading and holding is not easy. Doing these requires a lot of experience and research, otherwise it is a waste of money.Trading is of different types like spot trading, futures trading.Trading means buying something and selling it when the price rises and usually not for too long.Holding on the other hand is for a long period of time like you buy bitcoins at a low price and hold them for a long time to sell them at a higher price.

Both trading and Holding aren't easy, we can't say that Hodling your Bitcoin is the best when the person holding isn't making money somehow, when you are jobless holding will be the most difficult thing to expose yourself to, because it's just not going to work, you gotta eat and live and this will also make you panic about the market situations, there will be fear fully living in your lungs because, you invest something you should have use to survive instead of investing, so all your mind will be on the money you use for investment.

Trading is full of risks, either you are broke, jobless or have some good source of income, you can keep losing everything you've ever worked for, so with trading you don't just need only money, you need to build your skills to a certain stage to be able to start making money from trading.

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

Investing and trading are definitely two different things, as you mentioned here there is a possibility of profit and loss in trading, not only in trading there is a possibility of profit and loss but also in investment there is a possibility of profit and loss. Don't you think people who have no idea about investing can lose their money if they invest? An inexperienced person will make mistakes in selecting good coins to invest in as he has no idea about any coin. If a new investor invests in an altcoin in a long-term investment plan, he will lose his money. Investing requires us to risk money but we will risk money on a coin where our return is the most likely. If a long term investment is to be made then it should be done in Bitcoin because investing in Bitcoin will give you the power to be patient for a long time and you will get enough confidence in investing in Bitcoin which is not applicable to altcoin.  

Trading is a bit like gambling, in gambling you win a day or two and in that greed you gamble with more money the next day but the next day you lose your gamble and lose all the money. We see the same in the case of trading, if we start trading with a small amount of money, maybe we can make some money in the first two trades, and that profit gives us enough confidence, then we trust and trade with a large amount of money, then we see this huge loss in our trading.  
So taking money risk must be taken for a long period of time in investments that can give you a big change in your money.

According to me trading and holding are two different things because trading is for short term and investing or holding is for long term.Trading is a business where both profit and loss are faced.If you have a proper understanding of the market and do a good analysis of trading then you can get success in trading.And those who have no idea about trading definitely face losses.On the other hand, holding or investing requires a lot of patience and no one can hold or invest for a long period of time.

Holding still stands tall amongst the ways to keep your Bitcoin safe. Trading is not for everyone and does not perfectly apply to every assets especially on daily basis, but most persons have failed to understand this and fallen for the trap of technical analysis (TA), especially amateurs whenever they get a good knowledge of technical analysis they get this strong adrenaline rush and want to exercise it on the market.

Trading consumes so much of emotional energy and sometimes exact some level of stress on your mental power and psychology but you can avoid all these simply by holding. I had a similar experience two years back after taking a paid course for TA, I came back feeling I've gat what it takes to conquer the market but from experience I can Say holding still remains the Best, but then it's important to know that holding comes with its challenges aswell especially when you are holding in a decentralized wallet, more often you may be tempted to sell of at the slightest upward movement of price and you may end up missing out (FOMO) in the bigger future.

Trading and Hodling are two investment plans that don't mix and one (trading) is riskier than the other. Hodling might not totally guarantee the return on your investment but will also not suddenly put your money at so much risk to the point of losing everything suddenly. It's trading that has that attribute, and the more you think you want to recover your losses in trading, the more emotion sets in and you lose more money, that's trading for you and I'm a practical witness of this. Even those who claim to be the best managers of their portfolios in trading still succumb to their nature's emotions and lose their money over time. Trading is not as convenient as Hodling.

For this, it's better to know the distinctions between the two and prepare money due for them separately. Also, I advise lower money for trading and higher money for Hodling based on my experience. You might have your separate little funds for trading and other separate big funds for Hodling since the chance of making it with Hodling is higher than trading. And in case you want to increase the size of your Hodling for whatever reason, good luck with that, but you should never think you can take money from your Hodling to finance trading. It always ends in regrets.

Even they have the same knowledge in trading, it's the reality that many don't see that in trading many of them losses.

While on this one, trading can also be done in long term but someone will see on how the words we say about it becomes into reality when they do it in actuality. Many traders chose the path of being a holder because it's so much better and easier. When I say easier, when you're able to see how risky both of them, you'll just be happy and sit to the side and HODL. And don't get it wrong when we say HODL, it's best done through Bitcoin even if the world tells you to buy this xx or that xx, don't always go with them because what works for them couldn't work for you. But what has proven to be working for everybody is to HOLD Bitcoin.

That's why we have a nice, educational article about the topic now.  
Hopefully, many people will read our topic about the issue and be careful, when it comes to trading.


Nice, fast translation.
Well done.  
+1  

I've added it to my list and appreciate your effort very much.

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Bengali	Z_MBFM	ট্রেড Vs হোল্ড এর ফাঁদ এড়িয়ে চলুন

Part of the reason that DCA works so well in investing is that you can set your position size to such a level that you would not need to worry about if you have enough patience or not.

Of course, if you are lump summing into your investment, then there is more of a problematic nature for the impatient person to want to see positive returns.

Of course, if you start out with a decently small investing amount, even with DCA, and then over 5-10 years, you start to see that your investment is growing a lot, then surely the impatient person might end up cashing out based on either price movements or merely inabilities to defer gratification.

So I am not really sure if the lack of patience is the right way of describing the situation versus describing it as the marsh mellow test, and some people have difficulties deferring gratification.  I think that deference of gratification characteristics can be learned - however, it can sometimes be difficult to change someone who grew up in a certain way, and they almost need to be slapped around from the start in order to change their whole way of acting and their ways of thinking about their interactions with the world.

So, after I wrote all of this, I am starting to think that we might be saying similar things, and just using some different words.

This is a very important point that we should pay attention to because no matter how much experience we have and no matter how smart we use analytical techniques and whatever it is, we still cannot be completely profitable in trading because sometimes this will actually make us lose in the end.
We can even see what happened to bitcoin trading in some news 2 today when bitcoin moved erratically how many people were liquidated due to trading.
Even looking at what happened in the last 24 hours even in some sites say a day ago there were about 39,335 traders who were liquidated for trading and today if you look at the liquidation heat map you can see how much money was burned there.

Source

So in this case raises a belief in the end trading will be much more difficult and sooner or later if you are not careful in action something like this can happen to you.
In addition, it would be better to invest and hodl especially for bitcoin than to do risky trading and I choose this path because I don't want to take a bigger risk in trading so I prefer to hodl and hodl on the investments I make.

My own experience also tells the same and I have never add single satoshi to my btc holding by trading. I saw many people claiming that they earned alot and increased their btc quantity while I lost all the time. Maybe there is something wrong in my trading strategies or I have not learned well yet. Trading results is totally uncertain and sometimes I lost a big amount in just matter of hours. Half of my btc holding down through trading and yes I agree that true holder of btc are only those who never used fund for trading and saved in their own wallet (cold or hot) for long term.

Trading is a business where you can see both profit and loss. Trading with proper market research has the potential to be profitable. Most of the traders lose in trading because they don't have enough knowledge about trading and most of the traders don't study the market to determine which direction the market might go due to which they suffer. Investing is a step ahead of trading, trading is done for short term while investing is usually done for long term. If you are not a patient person then investing is never for you. Investing will test your patience, if you fail the patience test then you will not get the expected profit from the investment but if you do not fail the patience test and if you can bear the risk and hold your investment for a long time then you will get successful from the investment.

Well, when it's comes to this particular feeling of wanting to recover your loses I will agree that this particular trait is not only common to traders as it's even more common and done by gamblers and I know this cause I do gamble sometimes but I like to think not with my holdings because the true fact is that someone who plans in accumulating more coins through trading is actually planning to gamble his holdings because their is absolutely no certainty to this act. Trading is a very risky and anyone who feels he can accumulate his Bitcoin through this way is actually not ready to be a successful Bitcoin holder.

You can actually do both at the same time as there will be no conflict if well manage. Like I said in my comment in one of the thread today, I know some people holding a big portfolio of Bitcoin that was bought with proceeds from trading Bitcoin futures. Their approach was to make money from trading and preserve the money in long term hodl.  They have been successful at doing that.

I know trading come with higher risk thereby requiring specialized skill. It is mastering this skill that unlock the opportunities of trading. For example, through trading, you can quickly turn small amount of money into something huge within a short period of time. This is not possible with holding. You can also loose this money within a blink of an eye through trading and this is not also possible with holding. Therefore, it is safe to say that the higher the risk, the higher the reward.

Yes, this is a completely logical thought. But this is not understood by everyone because everyone is concerned about getting something instant. while holding it demands a long term time. that is why day trading does not guarantee profit to traders, but most traders rush towards it

Thanks for your permission. this topic has been translated in my Bangali Language. you can review this here  - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63007012

And even if we do trading "right" (according to technical analysis), it's not a guarantee for any win. Because if we would have a trading program, which is trading exactly a technical analysis trading strategy, to generate profits, it simply doesn't exist. Because no (day) trading strategy is reliable long-term. We can make some profits due to luck but that doesn't mean that it's a reliable strategy.
If there would be a reliable trading strategy, someone would have coded an application already to make it an automated trading strategy - but such a technical analysis trading strategy doesn't exist.

Only HODL or any other strategy based on economic growth - or Bitcoin's scarcity - is a (relatively) reliable strategy. But HODL is not related to (day) trading based on technical analysis, HODL is based on Bitcoin's fundamentals (scarcity). 

Of course, you can translate my topic for our local Bengali board because I believe "Trading vs. HODL" is a very important topic to be aware of.