TradeFortress is a scammer. - page 12.

ervalvola

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Quote from: darkmule on May 16, 2013, 10:43:59 PM

However, what is it that this system allows me to be looking at a balance screen telling me I have 5 BTC when in fact they are basically imaginary? That's honesty?

That's exactly the same system you use everytime you log into MtGox to trade your bitcoins Cool

ervalvola

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As i said in the other topic, your accusations about Ripples aren't rootless at all, i've read your site and some posts.

People can read and think and you can't force them into doing that by rescuing theyr bitcoins, or stealing; or letting others to steal. You have crossed the line.

darkmule

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I don't agree TF is a scammer. A troll, maybe, but with a purpose.

However, I would agree with the warning not to do this with an account that is associated with anything like real money or real BTC, or if you ever intend to use this ridiculous service.

If it is this trivially easy to game this system, it has serious issues.

Compare to the BTC network. If the transaction hits the blockchain and gets confirms, I can be absolutely certain there is real money there. With Ripple, I have 5 BTC of utter bullshit sitting there. There it is, in my imaginary balance. I'd never attempt to spend it. I think it would be fraud if I did.

However, what is it that this system allows me to be looking at a balance screen telling me I have 5 BTC when in fact they are basically imaginary? That's honesty?

arsenische

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 16, 2013, 10:37:27 PM

Is that person doing it for personal gain, or to bring awareness to it?

His intentions are honorable, but does it matter? (e. g. Robin Hood was a thief with honorable intentions... and in fact he was the criminal)

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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👻

Is that person doing it for personal gain, or to bring awareness to it?

arsenische

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 16, 2013, 10:11:35 PM

Quote from: arsenische on May 16, 2013, 10:06:34 PM

Quote from: theymos on May 16, 2013, 09:50:00 PM

For a scammer tag, the accused person needs to have promised to do something and then failed to deliver on the promise. TradeFortress never promised to pay anyone any bitcoins here. If you trust him to do something that he didn't promise, that's your problem.

Just facts: TradeFortress issued IOUs and sent them to users who trusted him. IOU means "I owe you". Thus he admitted that he owes to that people.

Question: If one owes to people who trust him, but is not going to pay them, then who is that person?

Where did I say I will redeem my IOUs? Ripple is also used for shares, you can't redeem them, so I guess dividendrippler is a scam.

I made it clear in the title that you get a *ripple* Bitcoin which you have got.

I don't accuse anybody, I just raise a question. How would you qualify a person who deliberately asked for trust and issued debt without intention to pay for it?

ervalvola

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Guys, a scam is a scam because there is people who believe in it. That's why you posted in the newbye section and the topic was self-moderated.

I agree with you that opencoin should make much more hard to give trust to people, but that's not the point.

If you dislike guns, will you shoot at people to demonstrate that it hurts? You would go to jail.

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vip

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Cool, now where did I promise you were able to withdraw them? I listed the steps.

ervalvola

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Plus, the topic was self-moderated so the countless lies you said to people who had doubts are lost.

ervalvola

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 16, 2013, 03:36:31 AM

To expose and bring awareness to the flaws in the Ripple payment system, I am giving away 1 BTC on Ripple.

This is a social experiment. Therefore, posts not consisting of an Ripple address to send 1 BTC to may be deleted.

How it works

1. Register for a bitcointalk.org forum account if you haven't
2. Complete the following steps in your light (not a full node) Ripple client:

So you can copy and paste the address we're sending your bitcoin from, it's rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv

3. Post your address here. I will send at least 1 BTC to your address.

That's it!

I suggest reading RippleScam.org afterwards. Please note that you must exchange your bitcoins with an liquidity provider (Ripple does this automatically, when paths are calculated) in order to withdraw them from a gateway.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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I should also clarify a few things:

I very much supported Ripple during the closed beta.

I stopped stopping Ripple when no source code was released, while they advertise as open source.

I have not profited, or obtained any bit coins using liquidity providers, from the social experiment. Others may have on their initiative.

Nobody has contacted me regarding a loss. If they did, I would cover them out of my pocket after agreeing that ripple is a bad idea, however now I said this people can try to defraud me.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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Show me where I promised it, read that line again, did I promise they can be redeemed.

Also, you think social experiments last forever?

ervalvola

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Quote from: theymos on May 16, 2013, 10:08:29 PM

I don't recognize Ripple IOUs as binding agreements.

Sorry, we aren't talking of Ripple IOUs as binding agreements, but that he promised to sell something withrawable in a gateway, for bitcoins.

By the Way, if you don't lock that topic, other people will fall there and lose theyr money.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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Quote from: arsenische on May 16, 2013, 10:06:34 PM

Quote from: theymos on May 16, 2013, 09:50:00 PM

For a scammer tag, the accused person needs to have promised to do something and then failed to deliver on the promise. TradeFortress never promised to pay anyone any bitcoins here. If you trust him to do something that he didn't promise, that's your problem.

Just facts: TradeFortress issued IOUs and sent them to users who trusted him. IOU means "I owe you". Thus he admitted that he owes to that people.

Question: If one owes to people who trust him, but is not going to pay them, then who is that person?

Where did I say I will redeem my IOUs? Ripple is also used for shares, you can't redeem them, so I guess dividendrippler is a scam.

I made it clear in the title that you get a *ripple* Bitcoin which you have got.

theymos

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I don't recognize Ripple IOUs as binding agreements.

dchapes

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I think we now have fake currency (like false bills) circulating in the ripple system.

No we don't. We have a small network of newbs (plus a scammer or three) that have a mostly closed trust network with very little liquidity to someone trustworthy..

ervalvola

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Quote from: theymos on May 16, 2013, 10:01:54 PM

Show me the agreement that TradeFortress violated.

Quote from: ervalvola on May 16, 2013, 10:00:15 PM

Quote from: theymos on May 16, 2013, 09:50:00 PM

For a scammer tag, the accused person needs to have promised to do something and then failed to deliver on the promise. TradeFortress never promised to pay anyone any bitcoins here. If you trust him to do something that he didn't promise, that's your problem.

OK, if 3 topics and lots of people probably scammed aren't enough, i have to follow your argument:

from the first post in TradeFortress topic, everybody can read he encouraged people to withdraw HIS ious at a gateway. But this isn't possible, not every Bitcoin issued by TradeFortress is withdrawable at a gateway.

arsenische

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Quote from: theymos on May 16, 2013, 09:50:00 PM

For a scammer tag, the accused person needs to have promised to do something and then failed to deliver on the promise. TradeFortress never promised to pay anyone any bitcoins here. If you trust him to do something that he didn't promise, that's your problem.

Just facts: TradeFortress issued IOUs and sent them to users who trusted him. IOU means "I owe you". Thus he admitted that he owes to that people.

Question: If one owes to people who trust him, but is not going to pay them, then who is that person?

ervalvola

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 16, 2013, 09:59:19 PM

> You cannot prove that you were not in agreement with people who actually stolen the money, or that you didn't steal.

You are a scammer, because you cannot prove you were not the guy that hacked Bitcoinica.

That's not an argument, you organized a fraudolent network based on lie.
Read further and answer the next question if you can.

@Other People: you can like or dislike Ripple, and i can agree or disagree, but that's not the point.

theymos

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Show me the agreement that TradeFortress violated.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I think we now have fake currency circulating in the ripple system.

How many LTC per TradeFortressRippleCoin? Wink

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