Topic: TradeFortress is a scammer. - page 8. (Read 14526 times)

Try to be consistent.

If you now states that those 0.01 bitcoin was "your fucking bitcoins" you can please give us the ripple address from wich they came and prove that it is yours?

But please, most important are the last questions.

@oakpacific:
i'm in complete agreement with you. The scam doesn't consist in his denial to repay the IOUs, althought, as you said, he was ambiguos on purpose.

The scam is done by tricking people who don't understand how ripple works to give him trust; this is exploitable from others (and maybe himself) to change reliable ious (as bitstamp's ones) with his worthless ious. Say, to steal bitcoins to the gullible.

We should emphasize that the gullible ones are not the only victims. Also people who know TF, or see his status as a member of this forum, can't imagine that he would have put them in the condition of lose real bitcoins, instead of receiving a gift. Betrayed trust, scam... as you want.
Watch the denunciation posts and how many people are thanking me and other guys for the explanation.


I've not lost faith: TF, would you answer the last 4 questions?

Wtf? No, I have not stole anyone's 0.01 or 1 or whatever (excluding my testing ones which are my own fucking coins)

I said that transactions > 0.01 were not mine, that doesn't mean *my* transactions were not involving my accounts / coins. Some of my testing txes were done in the account you know, some on my other accounts, but I have not stole anyone's coins.

It's pointless to reply further because you don't know how to read.

Since many here talked like they have never signed a contract in their life, I decide to chime in with some common sense.

The fact is that even if the mods want to do something to TF(like, giving him a scammer tag), they could not, for exactly the same reason why an IOU is not enforceable legally: an IOU does not specify repayment terms such as the time of repayment. Without the super important set time, TF can always claim something like:"Yeah, I do want to pay back, but I never said when I will pay back, and I actually meant a thousand years later." It may sound ridiculous but if you use your brain, to say a thousand years here is not different from saying one month or one year, the mods can not give him a scammer tag because there is no condition upon which they can judge if he indeed defaults. Unlike MNW's case, where the condition is "if pirateat40 defaults", which he did, or any other unpaid loan for which a payback date was specified in the terms.

A minor point is that TF wrote in the post title that he will give away a "Ripple BTC", rather than a "real BTC", although he was actually a bit ambiguous with that.

I'm glad to read from you in person that at least you stole 0.01 BTC.

Just confirm if i'm right:


Sounds like an admission. Just to clarify: point (3) states that you've allowed the guys who understand the mechanism to steal money to the gullible.
I'd like to hear from you the answer of the last 2 questions:



MAy i add:

7) Do you are conscious that it could have ended with people losing much much more bitcoins?

8 ) Given that only 1.01 bitcoins were stolen, you consider what you call an "experiment", and i define a scam, succesfully?

Most of the questions you can answer yourself, and the others are pointless, but 4) to bitstamp transactions > 0.01 were not mine.

Some simple questions for TradeFortress which i wish he will answer.
Let's stay on basic topics.

You offered 1 BTC Iou on Ripple through that thread.

1) Did you warn people who trusted you that you weren't able to repay that "I owe you" with real bitcoins?
    
2) You encouraged people to withdraw those IOUs in a gateway?

3) Did you know that such a withdraw could have (and probably did) resulted in financial loss (even huge one) to another user who naively trusted you?

4) That Bitcoin you withdrawed to Bitstamp, was previously owned by you?

5) Why did you choose to post that thread in the newbye section?

6) Why the thread was self-moderated?

Thanks for clarification. I knew I can have only XRP and IOUs in Ripple. But for some reason I assumed I have to issue IOUs (i. e. to have my own IOUs in my account) before sending them to anybody.

I only take Ripple IOUs

If you'd like to tip, my address is in my sig (1GLadosEkeAsLReqS3yQ51E1R3wVtbJCDF)

That's the point. Tricking the dumbs and make them losing money.

I will tip you when I receive my 0.06 btc from the auction, lol

Edit: if you give me your bitcoin address

Yes.

You CAN'T have it on your account - all you can have in your account are XRPs and IOUs.

Correct. You should thank me for the social experiment, because now you know how Ripple is broken.

You just issue them - no contracts, no need to have any BTC, no need to be owed anythig yourself.  Only two requirements to issue ANY amount of debt:

1.  You have some XRPs
2.  The person you're issuing to has unused trust towards you at least equal to the amount of debt you're creating.

Make an alt account, trust your main account for a billion BTC and you can send a billion BTC to it.  That simple.  And if someone else trusts you AND a gateway then those 1 billion BTC can be exchanged for ones issued by the gateway (up to the lower of their trust to you and their trust to the gateway).  As far as ripple is concerned they're all just BTC with equal value (to anyone who trusts both issuers).

So if someone trusts me for some currency, I can just use default client and send him or her that currency without having it on my account?

I clicked on "Send Money", entered an ripple address, typed [1 to 100] BTC, and clicked on send.

I do really see a problem now. Probably it is not a good idea to exchange IOUs automatically. It is not only the problem of trust, but the problem of different issuer's policies too. It can't be solved with a simple numeric field, there should be some way to attach a contract to the IOU, so that when one grants trust, s/he could accept the terms. But wait... Looks like there are contracts in Ripple: https://ripple.com/wiki/Contracts .

TradeFortress, what did you do to issue IOUs? I just don't know how it is done in Ripple.. Did you have to create and sign a contract?

It's actually NOT the same thing.

If I ask someone to give me their private key and they do, noone else can do anything to harm them unless I give away the key.
If I ask someone to trust me for 100 BTC on ripple and they do then other people can cause them financial loss WITHOUT me doing anything.

The difference is down to a flaw in how ripple is implemented - that it values all IOUs based purely on face-value.  So 1 BTC issued by a gateway that will redeem immediately is treated as having the same value as a BTC issued by a penniless bum with a track-record of scamming, failing to meet promises and zero assets (a large chunk of the forum membership falls in this group).  Or, as in this case, the same value as a BTC issued by someone trying to prove just how bad that system is - with no promise or intent of ever redeeming it.

Issuing the BTC did no harm - where harm occurred was from the requirement to extend 100 BTC of trust in return for receiving 1 BTC of worthless IOU.  But seriously - anyone dumb enough to do that DESERVES to suffer loss as an example to the rest of the community.

If I said I'd give you an IOU for $1 in return for being allowed to use your $100 overdraft facility at your bank would you accept?  If not, why would you accept the same offer made on ripple?  Because that's basically what the deal was - just most people accepting it didn't have a usable overdraft facility so were immune to harm.

Uhh, no. If I send someone a bitcoin in exchange for a private key, that's not theft, I'm buying vanity addresses.

You're involved in a scam.  If you did the same thing with secret keys (knowing that people didn't understand what they were) and then gave those secret keys away to other people - would that make you any less culpable in the scam?   I think not.

Having people trust you for 100 BTC in Ripple is the same thing as asking someone who doesn't know the difference between a private key and public key to give you a private key.   In both cases you are playing on someone's ignorance of the system and promoting theft - whether you do the stealing or not.